RealGM

Posting this here because I'm curious, as Sacramento fans, what would it take for the Celtics to get Martin away from you? We have Ray's ~$19.4M expiring, but not many talent assets past that (unless you include Glen Davis, because Kendrick Perkins is mostly untouchable).

Though team president Danny Ainge has publicly ridiculed the Allen trade reports, several NBA executives told CBSSports.com that the Celtics have been actively trying to parlay Allen's $19.7 million expiring contract into an asset that could keep them in the mix during the upcoming playoffs and also help them for the next several seasons. The most recent inquiry, sources say, involved Sacramento sharpshooter Kevin Martin, who'd be a good fit with Boston's remaining core. Kings officials might be talked out of their reluctance to deal Martin if they could pry a prolific big man out of a third team brought into the discussions or in a separate transaction before the deadline.

The bottom line is that Ainge, who saved his job by pulling off the perfect storm of trades that yielded Allen and Garnett three years ago, has made it clear in private conversations that he's "not going back to the abyss," according to one person familiar with the discussions.

"Danny has said, 'I can't go back to square one where we were prior to the Garnett deal,'" the person said. "At the All-Star break, they’re going to look in the mirror and say, 'Cleveland got better, we can't beat Orlando, and we can't even beat the Hawks. We’re not going to win it this year.'"

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/19962246?source=rss_blogs_NBA

As far as I'm concerned you can have him for Ray. Kevin doesn't fit with Tyreke/Omri/Donte at all. Would you also take Noc from us with Kevin? That way we'd clear out our glut of wings and maybe we can flip Ray for someone we can actually use. Or at the worst case we'd get hella cap money to go along with our draft pick. If I were the Cs though I'd be trying to deal Ray for some help inside, like a Camby or someone. You guys have problems in the paint IMO. But Kevin would be a perfect fit as a 2nd option to Pierce and with Rondo setting him up.

I want Perkins!

I would want Perkins.

We need a big man in return, but getting Allen in return wouldn't be bad.

Just get rid of Martin.

Wolfay wrote:I want Perkins!

They wouldn't give up Perkins. It's really hard to find a defense oriented big man who can play good post D, rebound, and block shots.

Kings would need to include either Nocioni or K thomas. And I think the goal for the celtics is to have a new smaller 3 when KG and Pierce have past their usefulness. I'm thinking that they would look to offer their pick and send the expiring somwhere else for the kings to get their big somewhere else.

No way does Ainge include Perkins, he's completely off limits. As for Glen Davis or Sheldon Williams I don't think there would be much hesitation if the right deal were to come along. You guys could always get a quality big in a three way deal as well.

At this point I think most kings fans are so low on Martin I figure you could easily convince one to exchange him for an expiring. Unfortunately for Celtics fans I don't know if the Sacramento front office share the typical fans pessimism. I do however think Boston is a decent destination if only for the fact that it's in the opposite conference, I don't think this franchise wants to trade Martin to a team like Dallas just to have him play us four times a year and score 30 each time.

At any rate I do think it's a moot point because I'd be willing to bet Sac isn't trading him this year, there are just to many unknowns at this point. Because he's played so poorly and he's played in so few games, it's very difficult to try and figure out just what's up with him. As a result I think it's going to be nearly impossible Sac and any receiving team to come to an agreement.

Sac is going to want to insure they get the best bang for their buck. They realize that Kevin, healthy or not, at his best or not is the best asset they have, bar one (guess who). Now at the same time any team trading with Sac has to be wondering what Kevin they're going to get, the one that can average nearly 30 a game, or the one that is struggling with his shot at 30%.

This contrariety is going to be what keeps Martin from being traded this year. In order for him to be traded one of two things needs to happen : option A. show he's as good as he has been in the past, proving himself worthy of luring a trade of the high quality Sacramento's front office likely expects. Or option B. play poorly for long enough that Sacramento's expectations drop, correspondingly with his value as an asset, and he can then be traded for something considerably less.

Back to the question at hand. "What would it take for the Celtics to get Martin away from you?"

For a lot of fans, at this point an expiring might be enough.
For some fans it won't be enough, you'd need to kick in some good young talent or a high draft pick which I don't think Boston has.
For the front office I expect the answer (assuming hypothetically they're interested) would be too high for the Celtics to agree to, maybe something involving Perkins, or Boston taking back a bad contract.

i wouldnt want ray for martin, neither do i like any big man from the celtics, i do like the idea of prying al jefferson from the wolves, 3 team, celtics/wolves/kings work? who knows

Here's a trade That I would sign off on.

Kings send
Martin
Nocioni
KT
Kings recieve
Ray Allen
Okafor
1st from Boston

Boston sends
Ray Allen
G Davis
1st
Boston Recieves
Martin
Nocioni

Hornets send
Okafor
Hornets recieve
KT
G Davis

doing the trade this way will get the kings more capspace to possibly sign someone this year or hold off. We get our guy in Okafor without taking on the cap strain that he would cause, we also get a late 1st to take a flyer on someone like Sheron collins.

I like using Martin's contract to get Okafur. I think the Kings are set on rebuilding this thing through the draft though.

bc legends wrote:No way does Ainge include Perkins, he's completely off limits. As for Glen Davis or Sheldon Williams I don't think there would be much hesitation if the right deal were to come along. You guys could always get a quality big in a three way deal as well.

Yeah, been there, done that, not going to do it again.

As for the the original question, the Kings need a quality big in return (Big Baby is not going to do it and Williams has no resemblance to the term "quality big"). If Ainge is not willing to part with K-Perk (fair enough), then he's going to have to find a 3rd team to get the Kings what they want. As mush as I think Martin needs to be moved to improve the team's future, I don't see an urgency to move him before the deadline. He can just as easily be moved in the summer and may actually have more value in a S&T deal with a team who's looking to get some return for a FA they are about to lose.

ICMTM wrote:I like using Martin's contract to get Okafur. I think the Kings are set on rebuilding this thing through the draft though.

bc legends wrote:No way does Ainge include Perkins, he's completely off limits. As for Glen Davis or Sheldon Williams I don't think there would be much hesitation if the right deal were to come along. You guys could always get a quality big in a three way deal as well.

Actually Geoff Petrie rarely trade or draft someone just because they know how play defense, they got to have some the kind of offensive skills he likes (passing, shooting, versatility) if player can do all these things and play defense like Doug Christie that's even better, but offense is priority . and Like or not that's whats makes him great GM, hes consistent he knows what he wants he goes after it...

http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/geoff_petrie.htm

RekeHavoc wrote:As far as I'm concerned you can have him for Ray. Kevin doesn't fit with Tyreke/Omri/Donte at all. Would you also take Noc from us with Kevin? That way we'd clear out our glut of wings and maybe we can flip Ray for someone we can actually use. Or at the worst case we'd get hella cap money to go along with our draft pick. If I were the Cs though I'd be trying to deal Ray for some help inside, like a Camby or someone. You guys have problems in the paint IMO. But Kevin would be a perfect fit as a 2nd option to Pierce and with Rondo setting him up.

Our ideal trade is probably Martin and Thomas' expiring for Ray. There was a report that Ainge was looking for a younger guard (Martin) and an expiring (Thomas) out of Yahoo Sports for Ray Allen, so I'm not sure if we'd take on Nocioni. If we did, we'd be looking at a mid-$90M payroll next year.

Agreed on Martin, when he's healthy at least. He can stretch the floor like Ray and put it on the floor at times too. Would be a great complement to Rondo for the future, but I'm worried about his defense and health.

Wolfay wrote:I want Perkins!

Like RekeHavoc said, it'd take one hell of a trade for us to give up Perkins. I don't think Martin's that player we'd give him up for. He fits too well into our system and it'd probably take an Al Jefferson for KG type of deal for us to move him.

Silver Man wrote:I would want Perkins.

We need a big man in return, but getting Allen in return wouldn't be bad.

Just get rid of Martin.

We'd gladly throw in Davis if you were interested.

longfellow44 wrote:Kings would need to include either Nocioni or K thomas. And I think the goal for the celtics is to have a new smaller 3 when KG and Pierce have past their usefulness. I'm thinking that they would look to offer their pick and send the expiring somwhere else for the kings to get their big somewhere else.

We'd definitely offer a pick and the idea of a three way with Philly, where you guys get Dalembert and we get Thomas has been tossed around on our board, but that's more involving Iguodala, but it could be rearranged for Martin.

wiltchamberlain wrote:At this point I think most kings fans are so low on Martin I figure you could easily convince one to exchange him for an expiring. Unfortunately for Celtics fans I don't know if the Sacramento front office share the typical fans pessimism. I do however think Boston is a decent destination if only for the fact that it's in the opposite conference, I don't think this franchise wants to trade Martin to a team like Dallas just to have him play us four times a year and score 30 each time.

At any rate I do think it's a moot point because I'd be willing to bet Sac isn't trading him this year, there are just to many unknowns at this point. Because he's played so poorly and he's played in so few games, it's very difficult to try and figure out just what's up with him. As a result I think it's going to be nearly impossible Sac and any receiving team to come to an agreement.

Sac is going to want to insure they get the best bang for their buck. They realize that Kevin, healthy or not, at his best or not is the best asset they have, bar one (guess who). Now at the same time any team trading with Sac has to be wondering what Kevin they're going to get, the one that can average nearly 30 a game, or the one that is struggling with his shot at 30%.

This contrariety is going to be what keeps Martin from being traded this year. In order for him to be traded one of two things needs to happen : option A. show he's as good as he has been in the past, proving himself worthy of luring a trade of the high quality Sacramento's front office likely expects. Or option B. play poorly for long enough that Sacramento's expectations drop, correspondingly with his value as an asset, and he can then be traded for something considerably less.

Back to the question at hand. "What would it take for the Celtics to get Martin away from you?"

For a lot of fans, at this point an expiring might be enough.
For some fans it won't be enough, you'd need to kick in some good young talent or a high draft pick which I don't think Boston has.
For the front office I expect the answer (assuming hypothetically they're interested) would be too high for the Celtics to agree to, maybe something involving Perkins, or Boston taking back a bad contract.

Agreed on a lot of this. Martin's value is probably at an all time low and your front office would be foolish to move him now. Likewise, it's a question of whether or not he'd be impeding the progress of rebuilding while on the team.

Martin's value is established. I don't think it's moved in either direction (high or low) nor will it.

longfellow44 wrote:Here's a trade That I would sign off on.

Kings send
Martin
Nocioni
KT
Kings recieve
Ray Allen
Okafor
1st from Boston

Boston sends
Ray Allen
G Davis
1st
Boston Recieves
Martin
Nocioni

Hornets send
Okafor
Hornets recieve
KT
G Davis

Only thing I would change to make it fairer, is have the first go to the Hornets (it's going to be a late one anyways). However, it depends on us from our owners. It really depends on whether or not they'd take on that much salary. We wouldn't be able to do anything this offseason if that went down and I'm pretty sure we'd be strapped next offseason as well.

ICTM,
I don't know how you can say Martin's value hasn't fallen. Just by virtue of the fact he hasn't played most of the year has made his value drop considerably. And of course lets not forget his piss poor play, he's currently tied with his career low in FG%, and at his worst since his rookie year in 3PFG%, keep in mind this is an offense first player here. Of course the one area this year where he's been able to keep up his typical play is on defense where he looks as good as he always has (not very).

How can all of this not lower his value, even just a bit?

[qoute]I like using Martin's contract to get Okafur. I think the Kings are set on rebuilding this thing through the draft though.[/quote]

Basically what I've wanted the past few months. Get Okafor, and thhen build through the draft. This would also allow us to get a shooting guard in the draft. Hopefully we land the second pick, so we can draft Evan Turner. Probably not going to happy, but that'd make me so happy.

Tyreke Evans
Evan Turner
Omri Casspi
Jason Thompson
Emeka Okafor

Then we'll have some extra cash for free agency so hopefully we'll try to get a bigger type of player.