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Outside fan here, just curious if you guys see Tyreke's long-term future at PG, or do you see him more in the ball handling SG role (like Kobe, Wade, Roy, etc.)? I know at the moment he's very effective with the ball in his hands but ineffective off the ball, but his off the ball effectiveness could change as he develops a jumper, post moves, etc.

He's a Guard

Reke is a lead combo-guard in the same mold as Wade and Roy (KoMe shouldn't even be in the same sentence since she's a ball hog prima dona).

His role will likely be more dependent on matchups and will typically get paired with another guard who will complement (or supplement) his game. With Reke as the focal point, I would not foresee the Kings trying to bring in a Nash/Kidd type distributor to pair with him. Honestly, Beno is really showing that he is a good complement to Reke.

he's a basketball player.

I think he's a shooting guard, but he should play pg. PG is good for him because it could let him take advantage of smaller guards and cause match up problems.

This is arguably the most referred question about Tyreke's game. "Is he a 1 or a 2"? Many say he is a SG playing PG. Other may say he is a combo guard that is able to play both positions very good. I think people are caught up with the positional category and definition. Tyreke may not be a PG in a Stockton, Nash mold but can he play PG ultimately well? I think so. Evans' passing abilities are very good, as well as his court awareness. He always has his head up and will make a play when the opportunity arises. You rarely get the vibe that Evans is a selfish basketball player. If ever at all. One of my biggest gripes at the time we drafted him is that if he is going to be a high volume-low assists/high TOs kind of player. But as Evans was proving me wrong (and other Kings fans) he proved to be the opposite. Evans is an fairly efficient guard that always look to make a play. Well, the TOs may be high for my likings (2.9-3.0) but considering the fact that most people in other boards were projecting him to lead the NBA in TOs if we have Evans play the PG position, I think we can live with that. Ultimately, whether or not Evans is a 1 or a 2, one thing is for sure, he is a damn good basketball player.

What position he's listed at doesn't matter. What matters is, he needs the ball in his hands to be effective, and he's a good-improving passer. That is all.

Since tyreke is neither a point or a shooting gaurd he gives us a lot more options to build around him. We could bring in either a point gaurd to play with him or a shooting gaurd and tyreke can play the other spot.

^^^But you are wrong there. You have to restrict yourself to PG's or SG's that can play off ball but that can also be good effective passers and can Shoot from distance. Thats where the problem comes in is that Evans does a terrific job of the drive and kick game but when he kicks it back out he really needs someone out there who can shoot put it on the floor or make a good pass. Thats why beno has been such a great fit is because he's able to do all of those things and be comfortable taking a backseat to Evans.

But from What I can tell he's a Combo guard that you have to focus the team around. And that means you have to focus in a find players that fit with him. So no he's not the easiest guy to build around but he is talented enough to be that guy, you just have to make the right choices as to who plays with him.

I think JJ Redick would do fantastic next to Tyreke.

Reddick would be a nice fit with Evans but I still like Udrih in that spot a little bit better.

I think he's like Roy and Wade but more of a PG than both. Getting into the teeth of the defense is a key ability for a true PG and I think Reke does it better than Wade or Roy. Think about what he's doing, and that's while he has no really respectable mid-range game. That's some unbelievable stuff right there. If he ever gets a decent jumper down we might be talking superstar level player around the level of a D-Wade, top 5 kind of player.

ponder276 wrote:Outside fan here, just curious if you guys see Tyreke's long-term future at PG, or do you see him more in the ball handling SG role (like Kobe, Wade, Roy, etc.)? I know at the moment he's very effective with the ball in his hands but ineffective off the ball, but his off the ball effectiveness could change as he develops a jumper, post moves, etc.

At this point of his development, he really isn't either. He's a basketball player with a very strong drive to the basket. That is all. The idea of traditional positions starts with each member being an offensive threat without overcrowding the paint and ends with each member being able to guard and rebound against his counterpart.

To that end, each traditional role has a certain supposed combination of size, speed, shooting, and passing abilities. If a player playing a traditional position is lacking an assigned characteristic, then the team has to compensate somewhere else. Think rookie Jason Kidd without a serviceable J: At least one of the bigs on the floor with him had to have an above-average outside shot in order not to overcrowd the paint.

Evans is definitely not a 2, 2's needs to have a serviceable J; he's not much of a 1, either, with his mediocre J, mediocre full court awareness, and mediocre passing. He can play 1 because his very strong drive draws so much attention that he can still get assists kicking the ball out. However, his lack of traditional 1 skills means that when he plays 1 the paint is so packed so often his bigs must either have a reliable J or be so strong and athletic that they can finish over defenders.

In terms of traditional positions, Evans probably fits best as an undersized 3 at this point in his development. I imagine an effective lineup would be traditional 1, traditional 2 with extra size, Evans at 3, traditional 4 with above-average J, and strong/athletic dunking/rebounding 5. 1 brings the ball up the court, and at some point in the offense Evans gets the ball for the drive, and have the oversized 2 guard and rebound against the opposing 3.

The last minute of the Dallas game was frustratingly telling. Evans brought the ball up the court with all five Mavs in the paint, shooters open on the wings, and all Evans could see was the basket. I mean, when you play 1 on 5, you are just not going to get much sympathy from the refs. Ironically, in the first quarter and part of the fourth quarter, you can see that the Kings were frighteningly effective when Evans was getting a lot of touches but wasn't running the offense. As soon as the Kings tried to go back to Evans as traditional 1, the team's offensive effectiveness dropped to hell.

Somebody really needs to watch Evans play a little more. I think using the terms "mediocre full court awareness" and "mediocre passing" reek of ignorance. That or a completely warped definition of each.

You can just go back to the Houston game for an evaluation of Tyreke passing ability out of the lane during crunch time. The Rockets feared Tyrekes ability to abuse the interior so much that they contorted their entire defensive positioning to follow his every action. Wherever he moved the balance of the defense shifted in relation. That's when you know you have a team by the balls my friend. When Houston did that Tyreke did pass out of the collapse and it pretty much created one of the more important offensive possessions in the game.

One should also remember we're talking about a 20 year old rookie. He needs to get better in certain areas, in particular assist to turnover ratio, but what rookie doesn't!?

SacKingZZZ wrote:Somebody really needs to watch Evans play a little more. I think using the terms "mediocre full court awareness" and "mediocre passing" reek of ignorance. That or a completely warped definition of each.

You can just go back to the Houston game for an evaluation of Tyreke passing ability out of the lane during crunch time. The Rockets feared Tyrekes ability to abuse the interior so much that they contorted their entire defensive positioning to follow his every action. Wherever he moved the balance of the defense shifted in relation. That's when you know you have a team by the balls my friend. When Houston did that Tyreke did pass out of the collapse and it pretty much created one of the more important offensive possessions in the game.

One should also remember we're talking about a 20 year old rookie. He needs to get better in certain areas, in particular assist to turnover ratio, but what rookie doesn't!?

Huh? At the very beginning of the 4th quarter, Evans got bailed out a few times in a row by whomever was playing 2 at the time (either Garcia or Udoka, don't remember exactly), which probably got counted as assists. He tunnel-vision the rest of the game and could not see the open man for the rest of the 4th quarter down the stretch. He was lucky Brooks was matching him miss-for-miss trying to play one-man offense for Houston, otherwise he would have costed the Kings the game. Both teams were absolutely horrendous on offense in the 4th that game.

Interestingly, without Lowry, Houston has been suffering from a lot of the same problems the Kings are suffering from not having a ballhandler with traditional 1 skills. When Lowry went down, Houston went from being a 6th place playoff team to winning at the pace of a 25-win lottery team. Without sugar-coating it, Evans' ability to feed the post over aggressive defense is poor, his long pass is neither fast nor accurate (his shooters often have to wait for or to adjust after the catch), and he overlooks the open man way too much when the defense is giving him the open man instead of the lane (pretty much the textbook definition of poor full court awareness).

Like I said, though, this is all considering Evans at this stage of his development. The guy is crazy talented physically, and all the things he doesn't do well right now are things he can improve on, but the coaching staff has to have the balls to hold Evans accountable on the things that he doesn't do well instead of deflecting all the blame to his teammates. It's obviously not an easy thing to be Evans' teammate with all the easy shots they are supposedly getting which they aren't really, and the coaching staff acting like everybody is just laying eggs getting easy shots all the time with Evans drawing the bulk of defensive attention.

Don't think for one second it all won't be on a lot of FA's minds when it comes time for the Kings to use that cap room.

- - -

In terms of traditional position, it's best to consider Evans an undersized 3 and use him as such but give him a lot of touches right now.

Casspi is not a good fit for Evans. Casspi is too much of a traditional 3 and doesn't have the 2 skills to run with Evans. It's best to bring Casspi off the bench when resting Evans. It's better to have Udrih running the offense with either Nocioni or Garcia playing the 2 on O and 3 on D (and maybe some Udoka if the opposing team is playing a small 3 Udoka can guard). Landry is the perfect fit, being a 4 with a reliable J. 5 is a big problem right now. Theoretically Hawes and Dorsey are the best fits if Hawes' J somehow becomes reliable and Dorsey somehow makes few enough boneheaded decisions to stay on the court. I don't really see either happening any time soon, so the Kings are just picking their poison here (I think the Kings might use their pick this year on a strong/athletic 5 or a highly skilled 5 to replace Hawes/Dorsey). Thompson is better off coming off the bench when going to an otherwise high-skills lineup.

I was listening to the radio (Grant's show) and whoever was interviewing said it the best way possible. The NBA may not have had a player like Tyreke Evans before. He has a body like Oscar Robinson, but after that he doesn't really compare to any guard before him historically.

Tim Legler said another good line:

The question about Tyreke's game coming into the league was is he a 1 or a 2. Almost 2/3's through his rookie year where he's all but a lock to win ROY the question still remains is he a 1 or 2.

He's better on the ball than off the ball. If that makes him a certain position then fine, but I've come to see him as more of a on guard instead of an off guard. He's not going to run off screens like Rip or Reggie, and he's not going to distribute like a John Stockton (already mentioned). He will do everything else a guard does fairly well except shoot.

Bruteque wrote:At this point of his development, he really isn't either. He's a basketball player with a very strong drive to the basket. That is all. The idea of traditional positions starts with each member being an offensive threat without overcrowding the paint and ends with each member being able to guard and rebound against his counterpart.

To that end, each traditional role has a certain supposed combination of size, speed, shooting, and passing abilities. If a player playing a traditional position is lacking an assigned characteristic, then the team has to compensate somewhere else. Think rookie Jason Kidd without a serviceable J: At least one of the bigs on the floor with him had to have an above-average outside shot in order not to overcrowd the paint.

Evans is definitely not a 2, 2's needs to have a serviceable J; he's not much of a 1, either, with his mediocre J, mediocre full court awareness, and mediocre passing. He can play 1 because his very strong drive draws so much attention that he can still get assists kicking the ball out. However, his lack of traditional 1 skills means that when he plays 1 the paint is so packed so often his bigs must either have a reliable J or be so strong and athletic that they can finish over defenders.

In terms of traditional positions, Evans probably fits best as an undersized 3 at this point in his development. I imagine an effective lineup would be traditional 1, traditional 2 with extra size, Evans at 3, traditional 4 with above-average J, and strong/athletic dunking/rebounding 5. 1 brings the ball up the court, and at some point in the offense Evans gets the ball for the drive, and have the oversized 2 guard and rebound against the opposing 3.

The last minute of the Dallas game was frustratingly telling. Evans brought the ball up the court with all five Mavs in the paint, shooters open on the wings, and all Evans could see was the basket. I mean, when you play 1 on 5, you are just not going to get much sympathy from the refs. Ironically, in the first quarter and part of the fourth quarter, you can see that the Kings were frighteningly effective when Evans was getting a lot of touches but wasn't running the offense. As soon as the Kings tried to go back to Evans as traditional 1, the team's offensive effectiveness dropped to hell.

Bruteque wrote:Huh? At the very beginning of the 4th quarter, Evans got bailed out a few times in a row by whomever was playing 2 at the time (either Garcia or Udoka, don't remember exactly), which probably got counted as assists. He tunnel-vision the rest of the game and could not see the open man for the rest of the 4th quarter down the stretch. He was lucky Brooks was matching him miss-for-miss trying to play one-man offense for Houston, otherwise he would have costed the Kings the game. Both teams were absolutely horrendous on offense in the 4th that game.

Interestingly, without Lowry, Houston has been suffering from a lot of the same problems the Kings are suffering from not having a ballhandler with traditional 1 skills. When Lowry went down, Houston went from being a 6th place playoff team to winning at the pace of a 25-win lottery team. Without sugar-coating it, Evans' ability to feed the post over aggressive defense is poor, his long pass is neither fast nor accurate (his shooters often have to wait for or to adjust after the catch), and he overlooks the open man way too much when the defense is giving him the open man instead of the lane (pretty much the textbook definition of poor full court awareness).

Like I said, though, this is all considering Evans at this stage of his development. The guy is crazy talented physically, and all the things he doesn't do well right now are things he can improve on, but the coaching staff has to have the balls to hold Evans accountable on the things that he doesn't do well instead of deflecting all the blame to his teammates. It's obviously not an easy thing to be Evans' teammate with all the easy shots they are supposedly getting which they aren't really, and the coaching staff acting like everybody is just laying eggs getting easy shots all the time with Evans drawing the bulk of defensive attention.

I tend to agree with this assessment of Tyreke's current ability. He's obviously a total beast in terms of his slashing ability with his right hand, so strong and so shifty in the paint, and a great finisher at the rim despite his mediocre hops. One of the best slashers in the league, even as a rookie, and even with a somewhat weak left hand. Also a nice rebounder and good defender, with the potential to be an excellent defender.

But he has major (correctable) flaws in his game too. I've only watched about 10 Kings games this season, but to me when he gets the ball he ONLY looks to get into the lane. If he can't get into the lane he just makes a simple swing pass that does nothing for his team. He pretty much never makes a quick swing pass, always holds onto the ball, he does not make good post entry passes, he does not make good passes to his bigs on P&Rs, he does not really ever try to draw defenders to one side of the court then swing it to the other end, he basically just does not run an offense at all unless he gets into the paint, where he'll either score or kick it out. To me these are all things you need your PG to be doing if you want to be a good offensive team, so I see him as being VERY far away from being able to run the point effectively. He gets quite a few assists but they really all just come off drive and kicks, he's like the anti Chauncey Billups. On the other hand, as a ball handling SG, with a different player who initiates the offense, he'd just have to get a bit better moving off the ball, and improve that shot (which is something he's gonna have to do anyways), and he could play the role pretty well. He can still have the ball in his hands a fair bit, but he needs to have another guy on the court who can run the offense in a traditional way, otherwise it's just Tyreke trying to get in the paint, and if he can't he just gives it up without really getting the defense moving and you have nobody else to make a play.

If they get John Wall, Evans is a 2, if not, he's a 1.

I don't want to start anything here but I watch Donte Greene's Show on YouTube on most nights. I like your team and some of the young talent you have...I admire your squad from afar but I have a bone to or two to pick with you people over there that is starting to really irritate me...

It is not a forgone conclusion that Tyreke Evans is Rookie of the Year and I do not really buy into this politicking for it and even going so far as to design an entire game for it!
Let me tell you people something...Rookie of the Year should go to the rookie who has the most impact not just the best player!
BRANDON JENNINGS IF THE BUCKS GET IN THE PLAYOFFS SHOULD BE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR! I don't care what his stats are like, his team is winning with him starting. What more do you really need then that? He has the most impact.
Now I am not going to get in a tit for tat spat here about it because I like Tyreke. I picked Curry and Jennings at the begining of the year to share the award...But I knew he would be a force as well. But come on now....I am ok with it until you start campaining too hard for it...

WIN SOME GAMES FIRST!

MilBucksBackOnTop06 wrote:I don't want to start anything here but I watch Donte Greene's Show on YouTube on most nights. I like your team and some of the young talent you have...I admire your squad from afar but I have a bone to or two to pick with you people over there that is starting to really irritate me...

It is not a forgone conclusion that Tyreke Evans is Rookie of the Year and I do not really buy into this politicking for it and even going so far as to design an entire game for it!
Let me tell you people something...Rookie of the Year should go to the rookie who has the most impact not just the best player!
BRANDON JENNINGS IF THE BUCKS GET IN THE PLAYOFFS SHOULD BE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR! I don't care what his stats are like, his team is winning with him starting. What more do you really need then that? He has the most impact.
Now I am not going to get in a tit for tat spat here about it because I like Tyreke. I picked Curry and Jennings at the begining of the year to share the award...But I knew he would be a force as well. But come on now....I am ok with it until you start campaining too hard for it...

WIN SOME GAMES FIRST!

I think you'll find some people disagree with you.

Namely, everyone outside of Milwaukee.