Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys

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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#21 » by Hal14 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:13 pm

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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#22 » by The Moose » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:17 am

Hal14 wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:So 15year old Cam Boozer played this same team that the Thompsons struggled against 3 months ago. He put up 28 and 20 vs them and dominated them. Now I'm not certain its all the same guys on the team or whatever but its OTE and the same team name.

I get Boozer is a phenom. Thing is the Thompsons are going to be 20 on draft night. If Amen is a 3 pick in this years draft he should be dominating all the same as a 15 year old.


Eh, IDK. Sounds like a reach.

-We're talking about 1 game sample sizes here. The Thompsons vs the Dreamerz and Boozer vs the Dreamerz. It's never a good idea to base too much off 1 game
-Boozer is considered a better prospect than the Thompsons, despite the fact that he's only 15. Apparently, Boozer is THAT good. I've heard that outside of Wemby (and possibly Scoot), Boozer is the best prospect in the world
-I'm assuming Boozer is THE guy on his team. Gets all the touches, all the shot attempts, doesn't to compete for rebounds with teammates, etc. Whereas the points on the City Reapers are distributed between both of the Thompson twins, plus Eli Ellis scores a lot of point for them too. And the twins are guards, so they're not gonna get a ton of rebounds..


Its a 3 game sample size against the Dreamerz

Amen
Game 1: 31 mins 24/6/6 4 turnovers , 9-14 fg, 1-3 3pt, 5-6 ft
Game 2: 36 mins 10/6/4 3 turnovers , 4-11 fg, 0-2 3pt, 2-8 ft
Game 3: 38 mins 12/7/6 4turnovers , 5-14 fg , 0/6 3pt , 2-4 ft

35 mins per game 15.3/6.3/5.3 with 3.6 turnovers and 46/9/50 splits

Ausar

Game 1: 31 mins 27/4/6 4 turnovers , 11-14fg, 2-4 3pt, 3-5ft
Game 2: 32mins 3/6/6 5 turnovers 1-11fg 0-4 3pt 1-3 ft
Game 3: 34 mins 10/8/7 4 turnovers 3-12fg 0-5 3pt 4-6ft

32 mins per game 13.3/6/6.3 with 4.3 turnovers 40/15/57 splits

So they both had 1 good game against this team, and 2 bad games which I would not say is a good sign in this context

For reference 15 yo Cam Boozer had 28/20/5 with 6 turnovers 10-17 fg 3-5 3pt 5-5ft

Also I think Boozer is a decent reference point to use at the moment, considering the twins are being discussed by some as potential top 3-5 picks. Yes, Cam is considered a better prospect than the twins, but from what I can see, nobody else that has either played in, or against this comp has even been discussed as a potential lottery pick let alone top 5.
There is no other frame of reference to assess how top prospects should be doing at this level.

The fact that the only other ‘top 5’ type of prospect to play in this comp dominated it while being 15 years old isn’t a great indicator that its a solid competition.
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#23 » by buzzkilloton » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:27 am

Hal14 wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:So 15year old Cam Boozer played this same team that the Thompsons struggled against 3 months ago. He put up 28 and 20 vs them and dominated them. Now I'm not certain its all the same guys on the team or whatever but its OTE and the same team name.

I get Boozer is a phenom. Thing is the Thompsons are going to be 20 on draft night. If Amen is a 3 pick in this years draft he should be dominating all the same as a 15 year old.


Eh, IDK. Sounds like a reach.
.



Boozer took a few more shots then what the Thompsons did vs this team. He was just really efficient and dominate vs what is BY FAR THE 2nd BEST team in their league. It makes you question the comp even more.

If Amen is going top 5 in the NBA draft then he is being considered one of the best prospects in the world as well. The fact that Amen is 4.5 years older then Boozer matters quite alot. Boozer will be much better when hes 19.

Of course the point on sample size matters. In the same vein the fact is the Thompsons sample size vs decent comp is nothing means this sort of thing matters that much more. Its clearly a negative I dont see how anyone can take it as even neutral when were dealing with such a iffy prospect profile due to their warts and league choice. I'm not saying its as important as say the shooting but its for sure something to keep in mind.

I'd love to see Boozer go against the Thompsons themselves this season. I wonder if we get anything like that. I'm guessing we wont.
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#24 » by Hal14 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:11 pm

The Moose wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:So 15year old Cam Boozer played this same team that the Thompsons struggled against 3 months ago. He put up 28 and 20 vs them and dominated them. Now I'm not certain its all the same guys on the team or whatever but its OTE and the same team name.

I get Boozer is a phenom. Thing is the Thompsons are going to be 20 on draft night. If Amen is a 3 pick in this years draft he should be dominating all the same as a 15 year old.


Eh, IDK. Sounds like a reach.

-We're talking about 1 game sample sizes here. The Thompsons vs the Dreamerz and Boozer vs the Dreamerz. It's never a good idea to base too much off 1 game
-Boozer is considered a better prospect than the Thompsons, despite the fact that he's only 15. Apparently, Boozer is THAT good. I've heard that outside of Wemby (and possibly Scoot), Boozer is the best prospect in the world
-I'm assuming Boozer is THE guy on his team. Gets all the touches, all the shot attempts, doesn't to compete for rebounds with teammates, etc. Whereas the points on the City Reapers are distributed between both of the Thompson twins, plus Eli Ellis scores a lot of point for them too. And the twins are guards, so they're not gonna get a ton of rebounds..


Its a 3 game sample size against the Dreamerz

But only a 1 game sample of Boozer vs the Dreamerz. Don't make a big deal out of a 1 game sample - that's Scouting 101.
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#25 » by The Moose » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:44 pm

Hal14 wrote:
The Moose wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Eh, IDK. Sounds like a reach.

-We're talking about 1 game sample sizes here. The Thompsons vs the Dreamerz and Boozer vs the Dreamerz. It's never a good idea to base too much off 1 game
-Boozer is considered a better prospect than the Thompsons, despite the fact that he's only 15. Apparently, Boozer is THAT good. I've heard that outside of Wemby (and possibly Scoot), Boozer is the best prospect in the world
-I'm assuming Boozer is THE guy on his team. Gets all the touches, all the shot attempts, doesn't to compete for rebounds with teammates, etc. Whereas the points on the City Reapers are distributed between both of the Thompson twins, plus Eli Ellis scores a lot of point for them too. And the twins are guards, so they're not gonna get a ton of rebounds..


Its a 3 game sample size against the Dreamerz

But only a 1 game sample of Boozer vs the Dreamerz. Don't make a big deal out of a 1 game sample - that's Scouting 101.


As I said, there are no reference points, it would be great to have a larger sample.

I'm curious how those who are high on the Thompson twins are actually assessing their capabilities from an NBA prospect perspective, given the fact that nobody they are playing against or with is an NBA prospect, and no previous NBA prospects have played in this league. Generally speaking, when evaluating a prospects there is some ability to contextualise their performance, either to their fellow draft class members or members of previous draft classes.

In the Thompson twins case, there is really nothing to contextualise their performances, people literally just having to speculate based on various highlight plays from an incredibly low standard of competition for a 19/20 yr old serious NBA prospect
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#26 » by Hal14 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:14 pm

The Moose wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
The Moose wrote:
Its a 3 game sample size against the Dreamerz

But only a 1 game sample of Boozer vs the Dreamerz. Don't make a big deal out of a 1 game sample - that's Scouting 101.


As I said, there are no reference points, it would be great to have a larger sample.

I'm curious how those who are high on the Thompson twins are actually assessing their capabilities from an NBA prospect perspective, given the fact that nobody they are playing against or with is an NBA prospect, and no previous NBA prospects have played in this league.

That's not true.

These guys are all in the Overtime Elite league and eligible for the 2023 NBA draft:

Jazian Gortman
Bryce Griggs
TJ Clark

Plus, there's a bunch of guys who are draft prospects but won't be eligible to be drafted till 2024 or later but some of them could even be lottery picks:
Somto Cyril
Nathan Missia-Dio
Jahki Howard
Bryson Warren
Matt Bewley
Ryan Bewley
Robert Dillingham
Ivan Almansa
Alex Sarr

And you say no previous NBA prospects have played in this league but that's not true either:
Jean Montero
Dominick Barlow
Kok Yat
Jai Smith

Those 4 went undrafted but they were all eligible for the 2022 draft. They were indeed, draft prospects.

Plus, the twins played in a bunch of games over the summer vs pro teams. And NBA teams are used to evaluating prospects playing vs HS competition (Kobe, Garnett, LeBron, etc.)
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#27 » by CptCrunch » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:49 pm

The Moose wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
buzzkilloton wrote:So 15year old Cam Boozer played this same team that the Thompsons struggled against 3 months ago. He put up 28 and 20 vs them and dominated them. Now I'm not certain its all the same guys on the team or whatever but its OTE and the same team name.

I get Boozer is a phenom. Thing is the Thompsons are going to be 20 on draft night. If Amen is a 3 pick in this years draft he should be dominating all the same as a 15 year old.


Eh, IDK. Sounds like a reach.

-We're talking about 1 game sample sizes here. The Thompsons vs the Dreamerz and Boozer vs the Dreamerz. It's never a good idea to base too much off 1 game
-Boozer is considered a better prospect than the Thompsons, despite the fact that he's only 15. Apparently, Boozer is THAT good. I've heard that outside of Wemby (and possibly Scoot), Boozer is the best prospect in the world
-I'm assuming Boozer is THE guy on his team. Gets all the touches, all the shot attempts, doesn't to compete for rebounds with teammates, etc. Whereas the points on the City Reapers are distributed between both of the Thompson twins, plus Eli Ellis scores a lot of point for them too. And the twins are guards, so they're not gonna get a ton of rebounds..


Its a 3 game sample size against the Dreamerz

Amen
Game 1: 31 mins 24/6/6 4 turnovers , 9-14 fg, 1-3 3pt, 5-6 ft
Game 2: 36 mins 10/6/4 3 turnovers , 4-11 fg, 0-2 3pt, 2-8 ft
Game 3: 38 mins 12/7/6 4turnovers , 5-14 fg , 0/6 3pt , 2-4 ft

35 mins per game 15.3/6.3/5.3 with 3.6 turnovers and 46/9/50 splits

Ausar

Game 1: 31 mins 27/4/6 4 turnovers , 11-14fg, 2-4 3pt, 3-5ft
Game 2: 32mins 3/6/6 5 turnovers 1-11fg 0-4 3pt 1-3 ft
Game 3: 34 mins 10/8/7 4 turnovers 3-12fg 0-5 3pt 4-6ft

32 mins per game 13.3/6/6.3 with 4.3 turnovers 40/15/57 splits

So they both had 1 good game against this team, and 2 bad games which I would not say is a good sign in this context

For reference 15 yo Cam Boozer had 28/20/5 with 6 turnovers 10-17 fg 3-5 3pt 5-5ft

Also I think Boozer is a decent reference point to use at the moment, considering the twins are being discussed by some as potential top 3-5 picks. Yes, Cam is considered a better prospect than the twins, but from what I can see, nobody else that has either played in, or against this comp has even been discussed as a potential lottery pick let alone top 5.
There is no other frame of reference to assess how top prospects should be doing at this level.

The fact that the only other ‘top 5’ type of prospect to play in this comp dominated it while being 15 years old isn’t a great indicator that its a solid competition.


Some solid shooting numbers from the twins here. I'm completely sure their first step will allow them to effortless break down NBA defense and get layups everyday and surpass LeBron + Zion's efficiency at the rim.
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#28 » by The Moose » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:06 pm

Hal14 wrote:
The Moose wrote:
Hal14 wrote:But only a 1 game sample of Boozer vs the Dreamerz. Don't make a big deal out of a 1 game sample - that's Scouting 101.


As I said, there are no reference points, it would be great to have a larger sample.

I'm curious how those who are high on the Thompson twins are actually assessing their capabilities from an NBA prospect perspective, given the fact that nobody they are playing against or with is an NBA prospect, and no previous NBA prospects have played in this league.

That's not true.

These guys are all in the Overtime Elite league and eligible for the 2023 NBA draft:

Jazian Gortman
Bryce Griggs
TJ Clark

Plus, there's a bunch of guys who are draft prospects but won't be eligible to be drafted till 2024 or later but some of them could even be lottery picks:
Somto Cyril
Nathan Missia-Dio
Jahki Howard
Bryson Warren
Matt Bewley
Ryan Bewley
Robert Dillingham
Ivan Almansa
Alex Sarr

And you say no previous NBA prospects have played in this league but that's not true either:
Jean Montero
Dominick Barlow
Kok Yat
Jai Smith

Those 4 went undrafted but they were all eligible for the 2022 draft. They were indeed, draft prospects.

Plus, the twins played in a bunch of games over the summer vs pro teams. And NBA teams are used to evaluating prospects playing vs HS competition (Kobe, Garnett, LeBron, etc.)


Montero right… the guy who ESPN and other sites tried to push as a 1st round guy for a lot of last season only for him to go undrafted. Barlow another guy mock drafts thought would be drafted at some point but when push came to shove went undrafted. Yat and Smith never were in real consideration to be drafted at all, it’s a massive stretch to call those 2 draft prospects.

I think you missed the point a bit with the ‘draft prospects’ in OTE league. When you’re trying to assess the nba viability of a potential top 5 prospect, it isn’t particularly helpful to judge them against draft prospects who weren’t drafted, it doesn’t really tell you much.

In any event , I’ll believe it when I see it in regards to the Thompson twins going top 4 or 5 in this draft. I’m not buying that’s where they are on actual nba team boards atm
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#29 » by Hal14 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:46 pm

Good listen, breaking down the twins by 2 scouts who are far more informed and far less biased than some of the posters on here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PKGDf4s7whG1fWR0F8LcR?si=l3ZHTiCVQ4i9TzxTxrTqpA&nd=1
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#30 » by CptCrunch » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:58 pm

Hal14 wrote:Good listen, breaking down the twins by 2 scouts who are far more informed and far less biased than some of the posters on here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PKGDf4s7whG1fWR0F8LcR?si=l3ZHTiCVQ4i9TzxTxrTqpA&nd=1


We all love undergrad psychology majors with no background in basketball, with no understanding of analytics. Better off sourcing your analysis from former high school ballers off twitter.

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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#31 » by Hal14 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:37 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Good listen, breaking down the twins by 2 scouts who are far more informed and far less biased than some of the posters on here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PKGDf4s7whG1fWR0F8LcR?si=l3ZHTiCVQ4i9TzxTxrTqpA&nd=1


We all love undergrad psychology majors with no background in basketball, with no understanding of analytics. Better off sourcing your analysis from former high school ballers off twitter.

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1) As I've already said on here, I don't give a sh&t if you pick up garbage on the side of the road, if you have good content, if you know your stuff then I will listen/follow you. The 2 guys on the podcast showed 10x more basketball knowledge than you.

2) Good lord. How pathetic are you, that you literally took the time (and showed how creepy you are) to look him up on LinkedIn (lol) and save 2 different images about this guy, host those images and then post them. The podcast host has done 146 episodes. His guest on this episode has 2,500 Youtube followers and has posted 109 videos. How about you?

3) Anything insightful to say about the podcast, or you're just gonna be creepy by looking up pics of people and posting them?
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#32 » by clyde21 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:40 pm

there is no way im takin basketball advice from a he/him
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#33 » by CptCrunch » Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:26 pm

This is a typical Thompson twins occurance. I've had the same type of interaction on reddit.

First, argue based on 'feels', attack your basketball knowledge when they get shot down because at the end of the day, the pros stop and end at atheleticism. And even worse, the overwhelming amount of pro-twins media content is from micro-creators on Twitter and Youtube and like, typically from those who have no qualifications relating to neither traditional scouting or analytics (not just basketball analytics) of any kind.
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#34 » by Hal14 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:51 pm

CptCrunch wrote:This is a typical Thompson twins occurance. I've had the same type of interaction on reddit.

First, argue based on 'feels', attack your basketball knowledge when they get shot down because at the end of the day, the pros stop and end at atheleticism. And even worse, the overwhelming amount of pro-twins media content is from micro-creators on Twitter and Youtube and like, typically from those who have no qualifications relating to neither traditional scouting or analytics (not just basketball analytics) of any kind.


clyde21 wrote:there is no way im takin basketball advice from a he/him


Man, you guys are so cringe. Can we just talk about basketball or the actual content in the podcast I linked to in an intelligent way? Is that really so hard lol
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#35 » by peZt » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:07 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Good listen, breaking down the twins by 2 scouts who are far more informed and far less biased than some of the posters on here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PKGDf4s7whG1fWR0F8LcR?si=l3ZHTiCVQ4i9TzxTxrTqpA&nd=1


We all love undergrad psychology majors with no background in basketball, with no understanding of analytics. Better off sourcing your analysis from former high school ballers off twitter.

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This is the weirdest and creepiest **** I've ever seen on a forum. Just **** pathetic. Your point is stupid and dumb as well but legit stalking a guy on linkedin and posting his info on a forum is just **** up and creepy as hell
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#36 » by The Moose » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:58 pm

Hal14 wrote:Good listen, breaking down the twins by 2 scouts who are far more informed and far less biased than some of the posters on here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PKGDf4s7whG1fWR0F8LcR?si=l3ZHTiCVQ4i9TzxTxrTqpA&nd=1


just curious what makes Pfieffer more informed or 'less biased'?

He's still just a random dude on draft twitter who does this for free

He's been leading the Amen hype train on draft twitter since last draft cycle and for the last 6 months

Read on Twitter


He literally has Amen as the 5th best prospect in the world currently, of any age.
If some of us here are "biased" against him, his takes are certainly biased toward him
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#37 » by Hal14 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:22 pm

The Moose wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Good listen, breaking down the twins by 2 scouts who are far more informed and far less biased than some of the posters on here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PKGDf4s7whG1fWR0F8LcR?si=l3ZHTiCVQ4i9TzxTxrTqpA&nd=1


just curious what makes Pfieffer more informed or 'less biased'?

He's still just a random dude on draft twitter who does this for free

He's been leading the Amen hype train on draft twitter since last draft cycle and for the last 6 months

Read on Twitter


He literally has Amen as the 5th best prospect in the world currently, of any age.
If some of us here are "biased" against him, his takes are certainly biased toward him

How is he biased? I'm sure lots of people have Amen ranked that high - some might even have him ranked higher.

Also, he tweeted that 3 months ago. So who knows, he might have Amen ranked lower now..
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#38 » by The Moose » Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:01 am

Hal14 wrote:
The Moose wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Good listen, breaking down the twins by 2 scouts who are far more informed and far less biased than some of the posters on here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PKGDf4s7whG1fWR0F8LcR?si=l3ZHTiCVQ4i9TzxTxrTqpA&nd=1


just curious what makes Pfieffer more informed or 'less biased'?

He's still just a random dude on draft twitter who does this for free

He's been leading the Amen hype train on draft twitter since last draft cycle and for the last 6 months

Read on Twitter


He literally has Amen as the 5th best prospect in the world currently, of any age.
If some of us here are "biased" against him, his takes are certainly biased toward him

How is he biased? I'm sure lots of people have Amen ranked that high - some might even have him ranked higher.

Also, he tweeted that 3 months ago. So who knows, he might have Amen ranked lower now..


He is biased because his agenda for the past year is that Amen is a 'generational' prospect and all of his viewpoints are filtered through that lens, he made his mind up on that a year ago



Last year in this video he said he'd consider Amen with the 1st pick in the 2022 draft



given the update vid from a few months ago his opinion hasn't changed

if you don't consider that bias, fine, but its pretty hard to then say people here are biased against them because they don't see the twins in that same light
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#39 » by buzzkilloton » Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:57 am

I'm actually biased for Amen. I want Amen to be an elite prospect for another great choice for the Pistons. I even was on the train for him at 3 early in the season based on some tape and all the internet scout hype. Obv I was more into theory of Amen at 3 then what he is in practice.

My thoughts have changed on Amen just like they have on many guys from that time to now. I'm not completely off him like others here fwiw. I still buy the size, movement, and explosive athleticism. I'm just aware of the warts and would have a hard time picking him top 5 right now. I was hoping to see more progression esp in the shooting.

Does this guy have any games where hes going to play some non OTE guys? Will they play Boozers high school? I'd like to see Amen play Scoots team or something but I know that wont happen.
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Re: Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys 

Post#40 » by Hal14 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:12 am

buzzkilloton wrote:Does this guy have any games where hes going to play some non OTE guys? Will they play Boozers high school? I'd like to see Amen play Scoots team or something but I know that wont happen.

He already did. Last summer OTE went on a trip to Europe to play a few European pro teams (including Mega Basket) and the twins also played in a different pro league last summer.

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