Obi Toppin/Dayton Flyers

[MasterIchiro]

Agree with everyone who sees Amar'e in Toppin. I had the same gut reaction when I first started following him. Watched a bunch of Suns Amar'e. Toppin is his match as an athlete and scorer. Athleticism isn't just for jumping, it's for running the floor and creating separation through the transition game. Toppin's scoring efficiency is in line with Amar'e. He's a scoring machine. And no Amar'e did not play solid D. He was known for it and exploited for it. He still made the All-Star game both as a PF and a C. If you hate Toppin as a prospect you don't believe in his offense. But the numbers, measurable a like wingspan, athleticism, sure hands, shooting, finishing, dunking, running the floor, all point to Toppin being a monster on offense.

99% of the people I see that don't believe in him don't believe in his offense. No one is going to call you Derrick Williams 2.0 if they believe in your offense. Skeptics do believe in his offense but hate his defense. Fans of Toppin like me believe in his offense and while defense is going to be a work in progress, he's smart enough to make an decent impact on that end as his career progresses in time.

Well said. I feel like anyone who believes in his offense isn't going to dismiss it due to his defense. If you believe in his offense you're thinking Amar'e. Maybe skeptics and other non-fans think believers are trying to fluff up his offense so that his defense is ignored. There's no agenda. His offense is so good he can become an All-star regardless of being pedestrian on defense. Offense also carries trade value. The Knickas offered Porzingis for Booker. The Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler for LaVine.

The "empty stats" label discounts trade value to teams that can't hide or develop a player's defense. I want my Hornets (last in offense) to select Toppin because I consider his offense elite in his class. As for defense is see the league trending more to smaller lineups and think we could be looking at the next generation of 5's.

[King Ken]

Agree with everyone who sees Amar'e in Toppin. I had the same gut reaction when I first started following him. Watched a bunch of Suns Amar'e. Toppin is his match as an athlete and scorer. Athleticism isn't just for jumping, it's for running the floor and creating separation through the transition game. Toppin's scoring efficiency is in line with Amar'e. He's a scoring machine. And no Amar'e did not play solid D. He was known for it and exploited for it. He still made the All-Star game both as a PF and a C. If you hate Toppin as a prospect you don't believe in his offense. But the numbers, measurable a like wingspan, athleticism, sure hands, shooting, finishing, dunking, running the floor, all point to Toppin being a monster on offense.

99% of the people I see that don't believe in him don't believe in his offense. No one is going to call you Derrick Williams 2.0 if they believe in your offense. Skeptics do believe in his offense but hate his defense. Fans of Toppin like me believe in his offense and while defense is going to be a work in progress, he's smart enough to make an decent impact on that end as his career progresses in time.

Well said. I feel like anyone who believes in his offense isn't going to dismiss it due to his defense. If you believe in his offense you're thinking Amar'e. Maybe skeptics and other non-fans think believers are trying to fluff up his offense so that his defense is ignored. There's no agenda. His offense is so good he can become an All-star regardless of being pedestrian on defense. Offense also carries trade value. The Knickas offered Porzingis for Booker. The Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler for LaVine.

The "empty stats" label discounts trade value to teams that can't hide or develop a player's defense. I want my Hornets (last in offense) to select Toppin because I consider his offense elite in his class. As for defense is see the league trending more to smaller lineups and think we could be looking at the next generation of 5's.

Hawks fan myself but I've said this before, any team can benefit from taking Toppin. He can help anyone offensively a lot.

I do agree, Toppin would be the best pick the board for Charlotte but I doubt they go that route. The GM and front office are heavily leaning to draft of the kids (Wiseman, Ball, or Ant)

[MasterIchiro]

99% of the people I see that don't believe in him don't believe in his offense. No one is going to call you Derrick Williams 2.0 if they believe in your offense. Skeptics do believe in his offense but hate his defense. Fans of Toppin like me believe in his offense and while defense is going to be a work in progress, he's smart enough to make an decent impact on that end as his career progresses in time.

Well said. I feel like anyone who believes in his offense isn't going to dismiss it due to his defense. If you believe in his offense you're thinking Amar'e. Maybe skeptics and other non-fans think believers are trying to fluff up his offense so that his defense is ignored. There's no agenda. His offense is so good he can become an All-star regardless of being pedestrian on defense. Offense also carries trade value. The Knickas offered Porzingis for Booker. The Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler for LaVine.

The "empty stats" label discounts trade value to teams that can't hide or develop a player's defense. I want my Hornets (last in offense) to select Toppin because I consider his offense elite in his class. As for defense is see the league trending more to smaller lineups and think we could be looking at the next generation of 5's.

Hawks fan myself but I've said this before, any team can benefit from taking Toppin. He can help anyone offensively a lot.

I do agree, Toppin would be the best pick the board for Charlotte but I doubt they go that route. The GM and front office are heavily leaning to draft of the kids (Wiseman, Ball, or Ant)

I think Kupchak is very comfortable addressing center with lesser resources and later in our rebuild. So I'm thinking Wiseman is not high on his board and instead he's targeting Oturu or even Tillman with pick 32. His last play for a center was an offer of the MLE to WCS. He passed on a second rounder for Drummond. He passed on the Grizz' demands for Gasol. He talked with Houston right before Capela went to your Hawks. He doesn't appear to value center as an urgent need to fill. He brought in Zubac with a second rounder. I think he's confident he can solve the position cheaply without spending pick 3. So if Edwards and Ball are off the board, I think Toppin is in play. I don't see the Bulls passing on him or the Cavs. He's a top 5 pick imo.

[MasterIchiro]

Hell I think the Warriors are even considering him at 2 if they can't find a trade for an established player. Toppin provides immediate help there.

[King Ken]

Well said. I feel like anyone who believes in his offense isn't going to dismiss it due to his defense. If you believe in his offense you're thinking Amar'e. Maybe skeptics and other non-fans think believers are trying to fluff up his offense so that his defense is ignored. There's no agenda. His offense is so good he can become an All-star regardless of being pedestrian on defense. Offense also carries trade value. The Knickas offered Porzingis for Booker. The Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler for LaVine.

The "empty stats" label discounts trade value to teams that can't hide or develop a player's defense. I want my Hornets (last in offense) to select Toppin because I consider his offense elite in his class. As for defense is see the league trending more to smaller lineups and think we could be looking at the next generation of 5's.

Hawks fan myself but I've said this before, any team can benefit from taking Toppin. He can help anyone offensively a lot.

I do agree, Toppin would be the best pick the board for Charlotte but I doubt they go that route. The GM and front office are heavily leaning to draft of the kids (Wiseman, Ball, or Ant)

I think Kupchak is very comfortable addressing center with lesser resources and later in our rebuild. So I'm thinking Wiseman is not high on his board and instead he's targeting Oturu or even Tillman with pick 32. His last play for a center was an offer of the MLE to WCS. He passed on a second rounder for Drummond. He passed on the Grizz' demands for Gasol. He talked with Houston right before Capela went to your Hawks. He doesn't appear to value center as an urgent need to fill. He brought in Zubac with a second rounder. I think he's confident he can solve the position cheaply without spending pick 3. So if Edwards and Ball are off the board, I think Toppin is in play. I don't see the Bulls passing on him or the Cavs. He's a top 5 pick imo.

Just from my contacts he can go as high as two which is unexpected and is expected to be in the 6-11 range.

Cleveland targeting wings.
Chicago is targeting a number of guys but Deni is getting a lot of attention.
Atlanta is targeting 7 guys

When I listened to Mitch recently on that radio show, he seemed to be targeting the kids. Even James had that option as a lean and my contact is hearing, one of the three, mainly Wiseman is their lean.

Its early but late in the process. I think Wiseman is going to be the guy if he's still there. Its if Ball is there is the question

[MasterIchiro]

Hawks fan myself but I've said this before, any team can benefit from taking Toppin. He can help anyone offensively a lot.

I do agree, Toppin would be the best pick the board for Charlotte but I doubt they go that route. The GM and front office are heavily leaning to draft of the kids (Wiseman, Ball, or Ant)

I think Kupchak is very comfortable addressing center with lesser resources and later in our rebuild. So I'm thinking Wiseman is not high on his board and instead he's targeting Oturu or even Tillman with pick 32. His last play for a center was an offer of the MLE to WCS. He passed on a second rounder for Drummond. He passed on the Grizz' demands for Gasol. He talked with Houston right before Capela went to your Hawks. He doesn't appear to value center as an urgent need to fill. He brought in Zubac with a second rounder. I think he's confident he can solve the position cheaply without spending pick 3. So if Edwards and Ball are off the board, I think Toppin is in play. I don't see the Bulls passing on him or the Cavs. He's a top 5 pick imo.

Just from my contacts he can go as high as two which is unexpected and is expected to be in the 6-11 range.

Cleveland targeting wings.
Chicago is targeting a number of guys but Deni is getting a lot of attention.
Atlanta is targeting 7 guys

When I listened to Mitch recently on that radio show, he seemed to be targeting the kids. Even James had that option as a lean and my contact is hearing, one of the three, mainly Wiseman is their lean.

Its early but late in the process. I think Wiseman is going to be the guy if he's still there. Its if Ball is there is the question

Kupchak is pretty tight-lipped. Nobody heard intel before he selected Bridges or PJ
Washington. We can all speculate and read tea leaves though. So maybe insiders get a sense the Hornets won't do something creative outside "the big 3" of Wiseman, Ball or Edwards. And maybe that's true.

At any rate, I have Ball going 1 in a trade down with the Knicks who are desperate for a game changer. The Warriors would also deal Ball to a PG hungry team motivated to move up: Knicks, Pistons, maybe even the Bulls. I think it's the Wolves who will cash in on Ball's trade value right off the tip.

The Warriors can decide between long term assets Edwards and Wiseman or more finished products like Avdija or Toppin. Edwards and Wiseman don't hold the same trade value as Ball considering the teams that need to aim high with the top PG.

I think because Edwards and Wiseman don't command a return of an established player, Warriors are looking at Avdija and Toppin. I think Warriors select Avdija.

That leaves Edwards, Wiseman and Toppin for the Hornets. I think (and hope) we go Edwards.

Of course the Wolves can smash this to bits by going Edwards 1, sending Ball to GS for a trade. Then we're deciding between Wiseman, Toppin and Avdija.

Then maybe we lean Wiseman. But I won't rule out Toppin or Avdija.

[Nate the Great]

Hell I think the Warriors are even considering him at 2 if they can't find a trade for an established player. Toppin provides immediate help there.

I doubt it. The Warriors usually look primarily for defense from their big men, and I think Toppin will always be a poor defender. Slow feet, high hips, poor recognition. Also, he’s best suited to play power forward in the NBA, and that isn’t a position of need for the Warriors.

[Roddy B for 3]

Agree with everyone who sees Amar'e in Toppin. I had the same gut reaction when I first started following him. Watched a bunch of Suns Amar'e. Toppin is his match as an athlete and scorer. Athleticism isn't just for jumping, it's for running the floor and creating separation through the transition game. Toppin's scoring efficiency is in line with Amar'e. He's a scoring machine. And no Amar'e did not play solid D. He was known for it and exploited for it. He still made the All-Star game both as a PF and a C. If you hate Toppin as a prospect you don't believe in his offense. But the numbers, measurable a like wingspan, athleticism, sure hands, shooting, finishing, dunking, running the floor, all point to Toppin being a monster on offense.

99% of the people I see that don't believe in him don't believe in his offense. No one is going to call you Derrick Williams 2.0 if they believe in your offense. Skeptics do believe in his offense but hate his defense. Fans of Toppin like me believe in his offense and while defense is going to be a work in progress, he's smart enough to make an decent impact on that end as his career progresses in time.

Well said. I feel like anyone who believes in his offense isn't going to dismiss it due to his defense. If you believe in his offense you're thinking Amar'e. Maybe skeptics and other non-fans think believers are trying to fluff up his offense so that his defense is ignored. There's no agenda. His offense is so good he can become an All-star regardless of being pedestrian on defense. Offense also carries trade value. The Knickas offered Porzingis for Booker. The Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler for LaVine.

The "empty stats" label discounts trade value to teams that can't hide or develop a player's defense. I want my Hornets (last in offense) to select Toppin because I consider his offense elite in his class. As for defense is see the league trending more to smaller lineups and think we could be looking at the next generation of 5's.

If Toppin is selected by Charolette, would you want PJ at the C or SF? If SF would you move Bridges to a featured player off the bench or are you giving up on him as a core piece?

[King Ken]

99% of the people I see that don't believe in him don't believe in his offense. No one is going to call you Derrick Williams 2.0 if they believe in your offense. Skeptics do believe in his offense but hate his defense. Fans of Toppin like me believe in his offense and while defense is going to be a work in progress, he's smart enough to make an decent impact on that end as his career progresses in time.

Well said. I feel like anyone who believes in his offense isn't going to dismiss it due to his defense. If you believe in his offense you're thinking Amar'e. Maybe skeptics and other non-fans think believers are trying to fluff up his offense so that his defense is ignored. There's no agenda. His offense is so good he can become an All-star regardless of being pedestrian on defense. Offense also carries trade value. The Knickas offered Porzingis for Booker. The Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler for LaVine.

The "empty stats" label discounts trade value to teams that can't hide or develop a player's defense. I want my Hornets (last in offense) to select Toppin because I consider his offense elite in his class. As for defense is see the league trending more to smaller lineups and think we could be looking at the next generation of 5's.

If Toppin is selected by Charolette, would you want PJ at the C or SF? If SF would you move Bridges to a featured player off the bench or are you giving up on him as a core piece?

Do you see PJ as a franchise guy? I don't think Charlotte has one right now since Kemba left last year.

[MasterIchiro]

99% of the people I see that don't believe in him don't believe in his offense. No one is going to call you Derrick Williams 2.0 if they believe in your offense. Skeptics do believe in his offense but hate his defense. Fans of Toppin like me believe in his offense and while defense is going to be a work in progress, he's smart enough to make an decent impact on that end as his career progresses in time.

Well said. I feel like anyone who believes in his offense isn't going to dismiss it due to his defense. If you believe in his offense you're thinking Amar'e. Maybe skeptics and other non-fans think believers are trying to fluff up his offense so that his defense is ignored. There's no agenda. His offense is so good he can become an All-star regardless of being pedestrian on defense. Offense also carries trade value. The Knickas offered Porzingis for Booker. The Wolves acquired Jimmy Butler for LaVine.

The "empty stats" label discounts trade value to teams that can't hide or develop a player's defense. I want my Hornets (last in offense) to select Toppin because I consider his offense elite in his class. As for defense is see the league trending more to smaller lineups and think we could be looking at the next generation of 5's.

If Toppin is selected by Charolette, would you want PJ at the C or SF? If SF would you move Bridges to a featured player off the bench or are you giving up on him as a core piece?

Our GM has said outright we're going BPA and not to get caught up on position overlap. He's said Hornets are not in a position to draft for positional fit. While we need a center, I'd hope Kupchak has multiple options outside Wiseman and Okongwu. The thing about adding prospects strictly on talent is you can always trade from surplus to fill needs.

I think the plan for Toppin would be to launch his career as a backup PF and transition him to greater minutes as PJ is developed in small ball center situations. Ultimately, I think both PJ and Toppin can swing to small ball center. There's versatility in both and I wouldn't pigeonhole either as a center or PF.

Gobert is the top defensive traditional center in the NBA and he's a first round knockout. Embiid is the top modern center who can space outside the paint yet protect the rim, rebound and defend the paint etc. - also a first round knockout. The NBA Finals may see Theis and McGee, scrap heap centers tip off. The trend is to teams playing traditional centers fewer minutes. You still need them on your roster but you can get them without sacrificing a high lotto pick.

So even if Toppin and PJ gobble up most of the minutes at center and PF, Hornets still need a matchup bench center. Our GM values positional versatility and our coach comes from the Spurs tree of position-less basketball, less iso, more team ball on both ends, strong emphasis on developing a system of team defense.

[PerkinsFor3]

where do you draft obi in the 2021 draft (if he was the same age as he was in the last draft)?

[Revenged25]

where do you draft obi in the 2021 draft (if he was the same age as he was in the last draft)?

Outside the lottery?

[clyde21]

Toppin went from being one of the more underrated guys last year to one of the more overrated guys this year

at the end Obi just not skilled enough to make up for the fact that he couldn't defend any position at a + level