Cammo's Brand Spanking New Big Board

Post #41 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:10 pm

I definitely need to see more of Lopez, but his bad shooting days the last 2 games against UCLA and USC have to damper my enthusiasm. Statistically, he hasn't been a very efficient player - with a mediocre shooting percentage for a big and a mediocre A/TO ratio. But as was said, having to play with front court players who don't spread the defense doesn't help him.

DanTown8587 · Post #42 » by **DanTown8587** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:25 pm

Mayo outplayed Bayless and the way he torched Arizona State proves to me I would not take anyone not named Beasley over Mayo, because of the superstar factor.

Cammo101 · Post #43 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:36 pm

BRIGGS wrote:If I had pick 3 I would take Thabeet. Thabeet has more upside than any other player past pick 2. On top of that he can help have an impact for an NBA team from day 1

Says the guy with 3 UConn players in his top 25 every year.

Cammo101 · Post #44 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:37 pm

Cruel_Ruin wrote:Cammo, do you really think Augustin has that kind of potential at the next level? He could be just another one of the great sub 6ft College PGs like Jameer Nelson.

Jameer lacks Augustine's quickness, athletic ability and outside shooting. That is the main reason his size is an issue. I see Augustine more like TJ Ford with a jumper.

Post #45 » by **PhilipNelsonFan** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:08 pm

hard49 wrote:Brook Lopez is not super-elite in any area.

We are talking about a 7 footer shooting less than 48% from the field in college playing beside another 7 footer. He gets pushed off his spot by 6-8 post defenders in college. He won't require double teams in the NBA and he won't punish smaller defenders.

You obviously don't watch Pac-10 basketball. Lopez is getting pushed around by physical monsters like Brockman and Taj Gibson as well as by more finesse guys, and he pushes back. He finds ways to beat people, changes his approach...a la Duncan.

I won't go that far with the comparison, but you don't give him nearly the credit he deserves. Come to think of it, no one outside of DraftExpress does the same for Robin Lopez either. Kid's not far from catching up to Brook.

Jonathan Watters · Post #46 » by **Jonathan Watters** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:01 pm

Yeah, PNfan, this is the kind of garbage that keeps me away from these boards most of the time and makes me regret posting whenever I do.

Playing next to another 7-footer probably makes you better on defense, but when that 7-footer is limited offensively and basically takes no part in the offense, it makes things much more difficult for you offensively. There is absolutely no room in the lane, especially when you have Lawrence Hill, basically a face up 4-man, playing the 3. This is pretty basic stuff here.

And anybody who could come away with any sort of concern about Brook Lopez after watching that UCLA game doesn't have the knowledge to comment on the topic.

He faced triple teams all night. He made several absolutely huge, very difficult shots down the stetch. He never got an easy look the entire game. And he absolutely dominated the game defensively.

This guy hasn't been pushed around by anybody all year. I haven't seen a single game where he fails to get good position regularly. He doesn't even need good position with the versatilty in his offensive game.

His ast/TO ratio is by no means spectacular, but it isn't alarmingly poor either. He's got a great TO rate, and a usage rate that is off the chart.

People need to understand that shooting 48% with a very high FT Rate is pretty decent efficiency for somebody in the top 10 nationally in usage.

Post #47 » by **revprodeji** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:21 pm

Jon, do you see him as a guy that could play the 5 next to someone like Al Jefferson?

Post #48 » by **UGA Hayes** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:46 pm

^ On Lopez, I think one of the concerns is that he doesn't project as much of a rebounder which can be pretty concerning in a frontcourt player.

hard49 · Post #49 » by **hard49** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:49 pm

Just because someone disagrees with you does not make their opinion garbage.

Plus to act like Lopez is the only 7 footer to face double and triple teams or have offensively challenged teammates is stretching it.

Also, if you have never seen him get pushed around, you must have missed about half of his Pac 10 games because I have seen it game after game. Players body him up and force him into awkward shots. Smaller players.

Also, you cant say he gets good position and then justify him shooting less than 48%. There is a reason. He takes bad shots.

hard49 · Post #50 » by **hard49** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:51 pm

Heck, name the last post oriented big to shoot that type of % that was successful in the NBA?

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #51 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:27 pm

Mayo should be 3

Cammo101 · Post #52 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:59 pm

Why is it that every person pumping up Mayo in these threads is a Laker fan?

Jonathan Watters · Post #53 » by **Jonathan Watters** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:36 am

hard49 wrote:Plus to act like Lopez is the only 7 footer to face double and triple teams or have offensively challenged teammates is stretching it.

OK, find me another center on such a successful team with such a high usage rate. Pomeroy goes back 3 years, I think...

Also, if you have never seen him get pushed around, you must have missed about half of his Pac 10 games because I have seen it game after game. Players body him up and force him into awkward shots. Smaller players.

Which players?

Also, you cant say he gets good position and then justify him shooting less than 48%. There is a reason. He takes bad shots.

Once again, somebody on Stanford has to shoot it. There's a reason Stanford went from mediocre to conference title contender upon Lopez's return to the court...

ISB · Post #54 » by **ISB** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:51 am

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Jameer lacks Augustine's quickness, athletic ability and outside shooting. That is the main reason his size is an issue. I see Augustine more like TJ Ford with a jumper.

I go to Texas so I've seen every NCAA game from both of these guys. Augustin and Ford definitely have some similarities, but there are quite a few differences.

Augustin is very quick--just as quick as Ford--but he isn't going to be one of the 5 fastest players in the NBA like TJ Ford is. He isn't going to have dunks on youtube like ford and in general augustin just isn't as good of an athlete. As a result I think Augustin will have more troubles defensively than Ford does. Augustin is also not as creative of a passer as Ford. Although Ford doesn't always make full of use of this ability in the NBA (I don't know why tbh,) he has elite court vision not all that far from the Nash/Kidd/Paul level. Augustin is a true point guard who is a good passer, but I don't know if he has the potential to approach double digit apg like Ford could do if given the minutes.

On the other hand, at this stage Augustin is on another planet than Ford in terms of shooting. Ford has worked on his shot a ton since entering in the NBA, but even right this second I'm not sure that Augustin isn't the better shooter. Augustin can hit the mid range shots just as effectively as ford and is better at finishing by the basket and hitting threes. Augustin is also very, very creative at getting his shot off. Rick Barnes gives him tape of Steve Nash and the Nash influence is pretty obvious.

Playing under control is another one of Ford's biggest weaknesses that happens to be a strength of Augustin. Augustin's TO rates don't look like anything special, but if you watch the kid play you will see he handles the ball more than any other player in the NCAA, and the way he is able to control the flow of the game is amazing.

Jonathan Watters · Post #55 » by **Jonathan Watters** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:46 pm

Excellent scouting report, ISB.

Augustin isn't the speedster Ford is. He also isn't the natural creator in the open floor.

But he does manage the halfcourt game much, much better and may be a better finisher in the halfcourt. Which is why I would compare him to Brandon. Ford is mostly an open-court PG, even at this stage in his career.

The only issue I would have is Ford's shooting/finishing. Obviously Augustin is better at the same stage, but Ford has developed one hell of a floater and seems to be a competent outside shooter now.

The NBA is going to be rough on Augustin in this regard, given his lack of size and less than overwhelming speed. He's not going to be able to perform those whirling dervish moves in the lane like he does at the college level, at least not without getting embarrased on a regular basis.

I'm not saying Augustin won't be able to penetrate in the NBA, but that he'll have to work much harder on his drives and will have quite the learning curve upon his arrival.

ISB · Post #56 » by **ISB** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:35 am

Jonathan Watters wrote:Excellent scouting report, ISB.

Augustin isn't the speedster Ford is. He also isn't the natural creator in the open floor.

But he does manage the halfcourt game much, much better and may be a better finisher in the halfcourt. Which is why I would compare him to Brandon. Ford is mostly an open-court PG, even at this stage in his career.

The only issue I would have is Ford's shooting/finishing. Obviously Augustin is better at the same stage, but Ford has developed one hell of a floater and seems to be a competent outside shooter now.

The NBA is going to be rough on Augustin in this regard, given his lack of size and less than overwhelming speed. He's not going to be able to perform those whirling dervish moves in the lane like he does at the college level, at least not without getting embarrased on a regular basis.

I'm not saying Augustin won't be able to penetrate in the NBA, but that he'll have to work much harder on his drives and will have quite the learning curve upon his arrival.

well I think Augustin's quickness is such that he'll still be able to get off his jumpshot whenever he wants much like nash does. I agree he won't be able to score at the rim in traffic like he does in college though. His game is so heavily influenced by tapes of Steve Nash that it's hard to compare him to anyone else in terms of playstyle. What do get with a short, worse court vision steve nash? I dunno exactly. lol

$*DIPSET BOI*$ · Post #57 » by **$*DIPSET BOI*$** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:05 am

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Jameer lacks Augustine's quickness, athletic ability and outside shooting. That is the main reason his size is an issue. I see Augustine more like TJ Ford with a jumper.

Where is this quickness and athletic ability of Ford? Augistin isn't even really that quick and weighing 170 lbs. What's going to happen when he bulks up (and lord knows he needs to)? That should be a huge red flag, at least Meer is strong for his size.