RIEHLDEAL's Big Board as of 5/15/08

[GJense4181]

^Amare Stoudemire.
Came into the league with ZERO skills besides dunking and is STILL horrible on defense, yet was a first-teamer last season and the rookie of the year.

If he can do it...

[riehldeal]

IMO if McGee played for UNC then we wouldn't be having this debate, he would be a lock top 5 pick

[AQuintus]

If McGee played for UNC, he would have seen less playing time than Jordan did this year. Not only did he put up much worse Freshman numbers than Jordan did, but he also did so in a terrible conference. (Sounds a lot like O'Bryant doesn't it?)

[ponder276]

I seems like your list is based purely on upside, and does not factor in the very small chance that some of these players will reach their upside. For example:
- McGee at 4th - looks very nice in youtube highlight videos, but apparently plays terrible d, which is pretty important for a big man
- Batum at 8th - he has great height/length/athleticism, but is a role player in the french league . . .
etc.

I also can't believe that you've seen enough of players like Batum and McGee in actual games to rank them this out-of-whack with the general consensus, since Nevada games are almost never televised, and Le Mans games are literally never televised (in North America).

[pad300]

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It doesnt sound like youve seen either player actually play but have read DX scouting report. Neither Jordan nor McGee can play defense, they both suck equally. I would say that McGee is more lamarcus aldridge than he is Channing Frye

Personally, if I was selecting a project big man, I might take Ajinca over both of them... That boy is just ungodly long...

[riehldeal]

I seems like your list is based purely on upside, and does not factor in the very small chance that some of these players will reach their upside. For example:
- McGee at 4th - looks very nice in youtube highlight videos, but apparently plays terrible d, which is pretty important for a big man
- Batum at 8th - he has great height/length/athleticism, but is a role player in the french league . . .
etc.

I also can't believe that you've seen enough of players like Batum and McGee in actual games to rank them this out-of-whack with the general consensus, since Nevada games are almost never televised, and Le Mans games are literally never televised (in North America).

I have my fair share of connections, lets leave it at that.....

you focused so much on my apparent over emphasis upon upside and failed to realize and/or address the very real probability that maybe, just maybe, the other guys that "everyone else" has rated so highly are flawed in one way or another in terms of translating their games to the pros, and I rate them as appropriate.......as ridiculous as some of you find me for rating McGee 4th, that is the same feeling I have when I see Augustin going 8-10

ex. augustin...love...jordan

[riehldeal]

I am considering though moving McGee back to #6 because I am far more comfortable with Arthur and Alexander as prospects

that would make it

Rose...Beasley...Mayo...Arthur...Alexander...McGee...Randolph

[AQuintus]

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It doesnt sound like youve seen either player actually play but have read DX scouting report. Neither Jordan nor McGee can play defense, they both suck equally. I would say that McGee is more lamarcus aldridge than he is Channing Frye

I'll admit that I haven't actually seen McGee play, but I have seen Jordan. From what I have seen, Jordan isn't a great defender, but he is quick enough to hedge screens on the pick-and-roll and he does a good job using his length to block and alter shots in the post. His actual shot blocking numbers aren't great, but from what I saw, he tried avoid fouls as much as possible which meant he attempt to block as many shots as he could have. Even then, his per 40 block average of 2.6 isn't all that bad.

On the other hand, Jordan does really need to work on his lower body strength so he doesn't get backed down so easily in the low post, and he also really needs to work on his defensive awareness. There were too many times in the games that I saw where he completely lost track of the ball.

All in all, from what I've seen in Jordan and read about McGee, they both need a lot of work on both sides of the court, but Jordan is far more likely to be a defensive threat than McGee.

Edit: As an added note, I expect that Jordan's ceiling will eventually be a bulkier Tyson Chandler (extremely limited offensive game, but good defense and rebounding), and that McGee will be a O'Bryant-esque bust.

[Cammo101]

If McGee played for UNC, he would have seen less playing time than Jordan did this year. Not only did he put up much worse Freshman numbers than Jordan did, but he also did so in a terrible conference. (Sounds a lot like O'Bryant doesn't it?)

Exactamundo. I do not see where all this love for McGee is coming from. No one else on earth has him as a top 5 player in this draft.

[Cammo101]

^Amare Stoudemire.
Came into the league with ZERO skills besides dunking and is STILL horrible on defense, yet was a first-teamer last season and the rookie of the year.

If he can do it...

Agreed, though Amare was more prepared to play right away. On a side note, I am not sure where the idea that Jordan plays no defense came from, it was the one thing he did ok last year.

[Cammo101]

I am considering though moving McGee back to #6 because I am far more comfortable with Arthur and Alexander as prospects

that would make it

Rose...Beasley...Mayo...Arthur...Alexander...McGee...Randolph

I find it terribly ironic that you talk about Love and Augustin's fatal flaws and then fall in love with Alexander. He is the perfect example of the Pat Garrity big without a position. Too slow of foot to play SF and too soft and slight to be a PF. That is a much bigger fatal flaw than Auggy's lack of 2 inches or Love's average athleticism.

[Village Idiot]

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Personally, if I was selecting a project big man, I might take Ajinca over both of them... That boy is just ungodly long...

I agree. I wouldn't hesitate to take Ajinca over either of them. He's not only athletic but can actually shoot and pass the ball. He has a decent feel for the game.

His shortcomings can be mitigated through coaching and by working extensively with a pro team's personal trainer.

His 7'9" wingspan is the longest of any drafted player in the draftexpress database.

[WillC]

4. McGee

Lolz.

[The_Pope]

This is laughable really.


Do you not find it worrying that you're so out of sync with people like DX, who spend their whole time assessing draft prospects?

[riehldeal]

This is laughable really.


Do you not find it worrying that you're so out of sync with people like DX, who spend their whole time assessing draft prospects?

Not at all..

[The_Pope]

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Not at all..

Seeing as the guys at DX are in regular contact with scouts and other personnel from NBA teams, they probably have a reasonably good idea of where the various prospects are rated. When you're ranking Alexander at 6, and they're ranking him at 23, you'd have to think that you've just plain got it wrong.

[riehldeal]

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Seeing as the guys at DX are in regular contact with scouts and other personnel from NBA teams, they probably have a reasonably good idea of where the various prospects are rated. When you're ranking Alexander at 6, and they're ranking him at 23, you'd have to think that you've just plain got it wrong.

You're making a lot of assumptions my friend.........

and here's my advice to you if talent evaluating is something you dream about doing professionally.....trust yourself! You are seeming to put far too much stock in the opinions of others. It is presumed that the pro level evaluators are on a whole 'nother level of basketball discourse and eye for talent but really they are just guys watching ball like everyone else (and yes, I've seen this first hand, not just talking out my ***)

This will be my final statement in this thread, I feel it has run its course at this point........I recognize the risk in placing some of the players I have so high, I'm not ignorant to this....I recognize that Bayless is a guy that could bite me in the ass.....however, I remain confident in my list