Potential sleepers

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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1081 » by Patsfan1081 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 3:38 pm

tester551 wrote:Where are people going now to get decent scouting report updates now that draftexpress sold out?


Nbadraft.net and nba draftroom don't have the depth that Express had but they do update constantly, I also like Nbadraft.net's grading scale. Tankathon does a good job updating all of the prospects stats and they have a lottery machine.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1082 » by CP War Hawks » Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:59 pm

FLETCHER MAGEE - 6-4 shooting guard out of Wofford. I'd put him up against any shooter in the draft. Not just a set shooter, gets his shot off in a variety of ways. A junior and not a candidate to declare, but possible with the year he's having.

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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1083 » by The-Power » Thu Dec 7, 2017 10:56 pm

CP War Hawks wrote:FLETCHER MAGEE - 6-4 shooting guard out of Wofford. I'd put him up against any shooter in the draft. Not just a set shooter, gets his shot off in a variety of ways. A junior and not a candidate to declare, but possible with the year he's having.

Wow, he's a career 91.5% FT shooter as well (215 out of 235). Can you tell something more about him? Is there any defensive potential in him at all?
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1084 » by The-Power » Thu Dec 7, 2017 11:01 pm

Anyone here who has watched Anfernee McLemore (Auburn) play and scouted him a bit?
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1085 » by Ruzious » Thu Dec 7, 2017 11:23 pm

The-Power wrote:Anyone here who has watched Anfernee McLemore (Auburn) play and scouted him a bit?

No, but it's interesting how the last 3 games, he's been a shot-blocking and rebounding machine, and out of nowhere he makes 4 of 4 3's in his last game (has only 1 other 3 this season).
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1086 » by The-Power » Thu Dec 7, 2017 11:33 pm

Ruzious wrote:
The-Power wrote:Anyone here who has watched Anfernee McLemore (Auburn) play and scouted him a bit?

No, but it's interesting how the last 3 games, he's been a shot-blocking and rebounding machine, and out of nowhere he makes 4 of 4 3's in his last game (has only 1 other 3 this season).

Oh, I didn't even notice the last game – maybe he can develop some sort of jumpshot, he seems to be improved from last season in this regard. Basically, I hope that he might be one of those players who can be an undersized defensive 4 in the NBA who knows exactly what he can and cannot do. With this profile – if your defense and athleticism are good enough – you might become a useful bench player. But I haven't seen him play so I really have no grip on him at all.

Seems to have the right mind set, as far as such a short introduction (in the spoilers) and the raw numbers can tell us, but I don't even know his age so how would I know... :lol:
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1087 » by nolang1 » Fri Dec 8, 2017 12:35 am

The-Power wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:FLETCHER MAGEE - 6-4 shooting guard out of Wofford. I'd put him up against any shooter in the draft. Not just a set shooter, gets his shot off in a variety of ways. A junior and not a candidate to declare, but possible with the year he's having.

Wow, he's a career 91.5% FT shooter as well (215 out of 235). Can you tell something more about him? Is there any defensive potential in him at all?


His defensive box plus-minus is -6.2 this year and was below -3 the previous two years, so I don't think the eye test is even needed to say no.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1088 » by blazeyo » Fri Dec 8, 2017 12:46 am

nolang1 wrote:
The-Power wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:FLETCHER MAGEE - 6-4 shooting guard out of Wofford. I'd put him up against any shooter in the draft. Not just a set shooter, gets his shot off in a variety of ways. A junior and not a candidate to declare, but possible with the year he's having.

Wow, he's a career 91.5% FT shooter as well (215 out of 235). Can you tell something more about him? Is there any defensive potential in him at all?


His defensive box plus-minus is -6.2 this year and was below -3 the previous two years, so I don't think the eye test is even needed to say no.


Was there any NBA player with such abysmal DBPM in college? I mean, I don't see a chance he plays a second in the NBA with these defensive metrics no matter how good of a shooter he is. Also, his REB% is the lowest I have seen in a pretty damn while.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1089 » by CP War Hawks » Fri Dec 8, 2017 12:53 am

The-Power wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:FLETCHER MAGEE - 6-4 shooting guard out of Wofford. I'd put him up against any shooter in the draft. Not just a set shooter, gets his shot off in a variety of ways. A junior and not a candidate to declare, but possible with the year he's having.

Wow, he's a career 91.5% FT shooter as well (215 out of 235). Can you tell something more about him? Is there any defensive potential in him at all?


Discovered him last night when he beat Tech on a 3 pointer. No more than average on defense I can tell. Comps to Redick and he may test better than him.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1090 » by The-Power » Fri Dec 8, 2017 1:13 am

nolang1 wrote:
The-Power wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:FLETCHER MAGEE - 6-4 shooting guard out of Wofford. I'd put him up against any shooter in the draft. Not just a set shooter, gets his shot off in a variety of ways. A junior and not a candidate to declare, but possible with the year he's having.

Wow, he's a career 91.5% FT shooter as well (215 out of 235). Can you tell something more about him? Is there any defensive potential in him at all?


His defensive box plus-minus is -6.2 this year and was below -3 the previous two years, so I don't think the eye test is even needed to say no.

Meh, DBPM is a horrible metric, a mix of team results and boxscore production. Doesn't tell us much especially for a perimeter player who is not expected to be a high-level defender.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1091 » by nolang1 » Fri Dec 8, 2017 3:52 am

The-Power wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
The-Power wrote:Wow, he's a career 91.5% FT shooter as well (215 out of 235). Can you tell something more about him? Is there any defensive potential in him at all?


His defensive box plus-minus is -6.2 this year and was below -3 the previous two years, so I don't think the eye test is even needed to say no.

Meh, DBPM is a horrible metric, a mix of team results and boxscore production. Doesn't tell us much especially for a perimeter player who is not expected to be a high-level defender.


No, blazeyo’s response would be the correct one. When you are consistently rated as well below average by college standards, that doesn’t bode well. Just as even the least capable offensive players in the NBA were at least decent scorers in college, the worst sieves on defense at least looked somewhat capable on that end. Zach LaVine has consistently rated as one of the worst defensive SGs in the league, and even his DBPM in college was positive. You can quibble about the metric if it makes you feel more intelligent, but there's an immense difference between -6 and 0 just as there's an immense difference between being "not a high-level defender" and being a massive liability who would be taken advantage of every possession. I would just about guarantee nobody who's posted a -2 DBPM in college - let alone -3 or -6 - has stuck in the NBA, and if there was one it would be someone who on offense is more than an off-ball shooter.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1092 » by HeadtopChunes » Fri Dec 8, 2017 4:39 am

Is Jalen Brunson the next Kyle Lowry/ Jameer Nelson?
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1093 » by doordoor123 » Fri Dec 8, 2017 8:02 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:Is Jalen Brunson the next Kyle Lowry/ Jameer Nelson?


Lol no.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1094 » by The-Power » Fri Dec 8, 2017 11:14 am

nolang1 wrote:No, blazeyo’s response would be the correct one. When you are consistently rated as well below average by college standards, that doesn’t bode well. Just as even the least capable offensive players in the NBA were at least decent scorers in college, the worst sieves on defense at least looked somewhat capable on that end.

This is not the point. The point is that you can be a capable defender with a low DBPM number. That is if one or both of the following aspects are true: a) you're on a bad defensive team and/or b) you play solid defense without recording many steals or rebounds. Same is true the other way, when you're a poor defender but you look good because of your team or because you record a lot of defensive rebounds, steals or blocks (2017 Westbrook would be the prime example). This has nothing to do with ‘quibbling about the metric‘, it's an inherent and huge flaw which makes DBPM close to useless both in College and the NBA.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1095 » by nolang1 » Fri Dec 8, 2017 8:29 pm

The-Power wrote:
nolang1 wrote:No, blazeyo’s response would be the correct one. When you are consistently rated as well below average by college standards, that doesn’t bode well. Just as even the least capable offensive players in the NBA were at least decent scorers in college, the worst sieves on defense at least looked somewhat capable on that end.

This is not the point. The point is that you can be a capable defender with a low DBPM number. That is if one or both of the following aspects are true: a) you're on a bad defensive team and/or b) you play solid defense without recording many steals or rebounds. Same is true the other way, when you're a poor defender but you look good because of your team or because you record a lot of defensive rebounds, steals or blocks (2017 Westbrook would be the prime example). This has nothing to do with ‘quibbling about the metric‘, it's an inherent and huge flaw which makes DBPM close to useless both in College and the NBA.


The cool thing is that it can be close to useless and one of its few uses can be filtering out a guy who looks off-the-charts bad when compared to literally any other NCAA player who’s been drafted this decade. How about you spare the condescending explanation about the DBPM formula and instead explain how you think a guy who can’t even get 2 rebounds a game on a low-major team is going to be athletic enough to get open against, much less defend, NBA-caliber athletes?
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1096 » by The-Power » Fri Dec 8, 2017 11:28 pm

nolang1 wrote:How about you spare the condescending explanation about the DBPM formula and instead explain how you think a guy who can’t even get 2 rebounds a game on a low-major team is going to be athletic enough to get open against, much less defend, NBA-caliber athletes?

I'm not here to explain how this might be possible but it's pretty obvious how this could work in theory (in practice you might want to look at Avery Bradley's DBPM compared to Westbrook's (who had a higher DBPM than Gobert by the way)). I was specifically asking about the defense of the player in question because I don't know him. I don't expect him to be good or even serviceable, it's highly unlikely even. But DBPM isn't the reason for that and frankly – without wanting to come across as condescending –, I'm capable of looking up this number myself if I thought it was of any use. Not to mention that I was talking about a little bit of potential and not even current production.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1097 » by Justwar » Fri Dec 8, 2017 11:38 pm

It's a center statistic really

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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1098 » by Justwar » Fri Dec 8, 2017 11:42 pm

Also skewed by bad teams vs good

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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1099 » by nolang1 » Sat Dec 9, 2017 12:49 am

The-Power wrote:
nolang1 wrote:How about you spare the condescending explanation about the DBPM formula and instead explain how you think a guy who can’t even get 2 rebounds a game on a low-major team is going to be athletic enough to get open against, much less defend, NBA-caliber athletes?

I'm not here to explain how this might be possible but it's pretty obvious how this could work in theory (in practice you might want to look at Avery Bradley's DBPM compared to Westbrook's (who had a higher DBPM than Gobert by the way)). I was specifically asking about the defense of the player in question because I don't know him. I don't expect him to be good or even serviceable, it's highly unlikely even. But DBPM isn't the reason for that and frankly – without wanting to come across as condescending –, I'm capable of looking up this number myself if I thought it was of any use. Not to mention that I was talking about a little bit of potential and not even current production.


Westbrook pumped up his DBPM by stealing rebounds from his teammates, but it's not like he was pumping it up from -6 or that he would have only gotten 1 rebound a game otherwise lol. Also you may want to find a better counterexample than Avery Bradley, who is an overrated defender because he only guards point guards well and doesn't offer much help defense; in other words, the stat actually does capture his value as a middling defensive 2-guard who is effective in some matchups but not in others (neither Detroit nor Boston have been better defensively with him in the lineup versus out of it the past few years).

If you're more athletic than everyone else on the floor (and you pretty much have to be to have any hope of being an NBA player from a small school) you'd have to be completely allergic to defense to not put up any numbers on that end; Steph Curry averaged twice the steals and rebounds playing in the same conference as this guy while carrying a much bigger offensive load. Anyways, for just a few players who may be 95% as good at shooting but many times more likely to have a chance being serviceable in other areas, you've got Dakota Mathias, Jacob Evans, Kenny Williams, Kevin Huerter, Justinian Jessup, and Jordan Bowden.
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Re: Potential sleepers 

Post#1100 » by King Ken » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:28 am

CP War Hawks wrote:I'm sure something has already mentioned Mykhailiuk. He's killing it shooting 54% on 3s. Yeah he's a senior but only 20, the same age as alot of current rookies.

Surely the Hawks would take him with the Rockets pick or their own top 3, 2nd rounder. Okogie has disappeared and fallen out of favor with his suspension and finger injury. He's someone to keep tabs on.

He's a player that will be better than scouts think.

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