2020 NBA Draft II

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1461 » by amcoolio » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:11 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
Yep. I am also in the minority that thinks MIN should take OO. His defensive versatility and rim running, high motor, 'do the little things' type play would be such an ideal compliment to KAT and DLo, who lack about all those traits.

He could play PF next to KAT, guarding whomever is a worse matchup for KAT among the other teams PF/C, and be an elite efficiency garbage man on offense until that jumper develops, which it will.

Edwards, DLo and KAT strike me as a paper tiger. The lack of moxie amongst those three excellent talents would be very worrisome to me.

OO's ability to roll hard on the PnR would team so well with DLo, KAT seems to be more of a pop guy in the PnR.

My 'what they should do' top-5 right now is:

1. Minnesota - Onyeka Okongwu PF/C
2. Golden State - Deni Avdija F
3. Charlotte - Anthony Edwards G
4. Chicago - James Wiseman C
5. Cleveland - Aleksej Pokusevski F


I'm hoping Okongwu is picked by Charlotte. I think he has the most "Paul George" potential in this draft


Are you taking a dig at me without quoting me?


Ah crap I didn't even see your post above me haha. No, no digs. I've said that on our board before. I think Okongwu has the most potential to be a super star. I like Halliburton too but I see him as more Brogdon because of athleticism.

I really don't like Edwards or Ball and I am meh on Wiseman, I wish Charlotte got the 4th pick instead. However hopefully they make the right choice, Mitch Kupchak is an very good drafter.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1462 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:48 pm

I like Halliburton too but I see him as more Brogdon because of athleticism.


Ya, I like this comparison. I have him around 7 on my BB. Above Killian, who I also really like.

I have Ball as a SRP so there is that. I absolutley hate his game and dont see how it translates to a winning team. Can you imagine a guy like him playing on Miami right now? He would single handedly destroy the flow, pace and spacing in an instant. He isnt talented enough to warrant the usage he will demand as a ball dominant guard. And off ball he doesnt really do a thing. And his defensive instincts make MPJ look like Bill Walton.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1463 » by OGLife » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:18 pm

Deni - Tyler Herro?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1464 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:53 pm

Deni - Tyler Herro?


Not at all IMO. Herro is a pure SG defensively who has above average handle and vision for a SG. He is like a poor mans Ray Allen.

Deni is 6'9 with a great handle for his size but isnt the shooter and doesnt have the handle that Herro possesses. He is a better finisher especially on the break and he has more positional versatility (SF and PF IMO). I think the cleanest comparison is Detlef but not quite as good overall.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1465 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:40 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:
Deni - Tyler Herro?


Not at all IMO. Herro is a pure SG defensively who has above average handle and vision for a SG. He is like a poor mans Ray Allen.

Deni is 6'9 with a great handle for his size but isnt the shooter and doesnt have the handle that Herro possesses. He is a better finisher especially on the break and he has more positional versatility (SF and PF IMO). I think the cleanest comparison is Detlef but not quite as good overall.


How do you think he compares to Batum?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1466 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:03 am

How do you think he compares to Batum?


I think they could have comparable offensive games, but Deni will surpass Batums 2.5 FT per game average. He is much more aggressive on offense. And a much tougher player overall.

Defensively, he clearly will be a tier below. Batum was quick and long as hell (6'9 with a 7'1 wingspan). I think Deni will come in around 6'10 for his wingspan, and he wont have near the lateral movement Batum did. I personally would trust Deni to guard the post more, again he is tougher.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1467 » by Chi town » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:01 am

OGLife wrote:Deni - Tyler Herro?


The 3/4 version. Spot on for IQ. Deni comes in as much better defender.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1468 » by Chi town » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:12 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:
So that means the top 4 is almost locked to be Edwards/Ball/Wiseman/Deni is one order or another. The only way that changes is if Minnesota surprises everyone and makes the logical pick in Okongwu, rather than shooting for high upside of Edwards.


Yep. I am also in the minority that thinks MIN should take OO. His defensive versatility and rim running, high motor, 'do the little things' type play would be such an ideal compliment to KAT and DLo, who lack about all those traits.

He could play PF next to KAT, guarding whomever is a worse matchup for KAT among the other teams PF/C, and be an elite efficiency garbage man on offense until that jumper develops, which it will.

Edwards, DLo and KAT strike me as a paper tiger. The lack of moxie amongst those three excellent talents would be very worrisome to me.

OO's ability to roll hard on the PnR would team so well with DLo, KAT seems to be more of a pop guy in the PnR.

My 'what they should do' top-5 right now is:

1. Minnesota - Onyeka Okongwu PF/C
2. Golden State - Deni Avdija F
3. Charlotte - Anthony Edwards G
4. Chicago - James Wiseman C
5. Cleveland - Aleksej Pokusevski F


MIN should trade back and take OO. I agree.

No way my Bulls take Wiseman. If Deni is gone I’d think it would be Hayes.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1469 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:46 pm

No way my Bulls take Wiseman. If Deni is gone I’d think it would be Hayes.


My reasoning was simple, Chicago needs to swing for potential star power. Wiseman has huge red flags, but the talent to be Tyson Chandler with a better jump shot. I dont think Deni or Hayes come close to being the #1 or #2 guy on a winning team, but they will be excellent starters and have high floors. A team like Chicago should swing for the fences 100%.

Then again, putting Wiseman on a team that doesnt really have any veteran leaders and, to me, seems a bit directionless (Not saying they dont have talent, but the 'plan' seems to be lacking) could be a risky move.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1470 » by mademan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:17 pm

Okonguw>>Wiseman
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1471 » by Klomp » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:55 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.


What?
He’s great as a cutter off ball his IQ is strong.
His handles are strong for his height and age. He doesn’t go left a lot but he finishes with his left really well.

From what I’ve heard Dubs are taking him if Edwards off the board and they can’t move their pick.


So that means the top 4 is almost locked to be Edwards/Ball/Wiseman/Deni is one order or another. The only way that changes is if Minnesota surprises everyone and makes the logical pick in Okongwu, rather than shooting for high upside of Edwards.

Nah, the logical pick is Avdija
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1472 » by Stillwater » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:14 pm

Other than Big O , Vassell and maybe Hayes & Halliburton or a couple others ranked lower like Lewis,Ramsey, Reed and Smith... I am not sure any of these highly ranked prospects like Ball,Edwards,Wiseman,Okoro,Maxey,Avdija,Anthony,Toppin,Hampton, Nesmith ,WIlliams etc ever become full time starters in the NBA . There are more flawed options from top to bottom than I can remember in recent draft history , but there are a significant number of these kids with nice potential rotation or specialist level floors and obviously a couple who will improve significantly and outperform expectations ( like Terry and Mannion and Oturu)
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1473 » by clyde21 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:38 pm

Herro was/is an absolutely elite shot take/maker, that's not Deni

really they don't have much in common other than they are both white...
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1474 » by OGLife » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:51 pm

clyde21 wrote:Herro was/is an absolutely elite shot take/maker, that's not Deni

really they don't have much in common other than they are both white...

Deni can definitely develop into the type of shooter Herro is as Herro can develop into the kind of playmaker Deni is. We have seen Herro improve as a playmaker during his first season. Deni also has a smooth shot which can transfer into more 3 pt shooting.

Both really use their quickness to get to the rim and in certain areas.

Wingspan is also an issue for both of them.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1475 » by Stillwater » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:41 pm

^ nobody is targeting Avdija for his shooter skills or upside they are targeting him for his playmaking and versatility in transition scoring. He really is by all definitions overrated as a shooter if people are expecting better than a 33% shooter from 3
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1476 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:08 pm

^ nobody is targeting Avdija for his shooter skills or upside they are targeting him for his playmaking and versatility in transition scoring. He really is by all definitions overrated as a shooter if people are expecting better than a 33% shooter from 3


I really dont think he is going to be that poor a 3PT guy. His shot is very workable. May take a few years, but I suspect he can top out at like 38%.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1477 » by CoreyVillains » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:33 pm

Just finished my latest breakdown on Nico Mannion. Obviously the shooting percentages were off putting, but I actually buy into the shot. I think he took so many off the bounce shots that he won’t be tasked with (especially in the midrange) in the NBA. I like his playmaking skills and I think the NBA style will benefit him there. He’s got good quickness. Defensively he’s a one position defender teams will target. I think he’s a a good get at the end of the first, maybe could have some DJ Augustin type years in him.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1478 » by Stillwater » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:49 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
^ nobody is targeting Avdija for his shooter skills or upside they are targeting him for his playmaking and versatility in transition scoring. He really is by all definitions overrated as a shooter if people are expecting better than a 33% shooter from 3


I really dont think he is going to be that poor a 3PT guy. His shot is very workable. May take a few years, but I suspect he can top out at like 38%.

maybe but I am not expecting anyone is actually anticipating it despite having confidence he will try to improve it. I dont see him as a "shooter" at all. he will get his in different ways outsmarting the defense creating plays for others and get rewarded for running the floor etc but overall there is a pretty good chance when scouts look at him shooting is just another thing in the con column
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1479 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:30 am

maybe but I am not expecting anyone is actually anticipating it despite having confidence he will try to improve it. I dont see him as a "shooter" at all. he will get his in different ways outsmarting the defense creating plays for others and get rewarded for running the floor etc but overall there is a pretty good chance when scouts look at him shooting is just another thing in the con column


I get that, but 33% is like straight up terrible for a forward in todays game. For a SF thats in Wiggings / Gay territory. IDK if you can draft a foward top 5 that projects as a 33% 3PT guy unless he is an absolute monster athlete.

Just finished my latest breakdown on Nico Mannion. Obviously the shooting percentages were off putting, but I actually buy into the shot. I think he took so many off the bounce shots that he won’t be tasked with (especially in the midrange) in the NBA. I like his playmaking skills and I think the NBA style will benefit him there. He’s got good quickness. Defensively he’s a one position defender teams will target. I think he’s a a good get at the end of the first, maybe could have some DJ Augustin type years in him.


I was very low on him, but when I went back to watch him again I began to buy into his potential as a traditional type backup PG. He has a really confident feel for the game on offense, can push the tempo, has good mechanics on his shot and can make all the passes. As you said, he will be an issue on defense. But I love the DJ type career extrapolation. I think he fits in the 25-35 range.

This draft is nuts at PG, some really good backup caliber guys are going to be available in the middle 40's even.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1480 » by Chi town » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:28 am

Folks forget Luka’s 3pt %

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