Jaden Hardy should go #1 in 2022 change my mind

RollingWave · Post #1 » by **RollingWave** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:49 am

Given the nature of the current game where it's very perimeter and 3 point-based. with players who can stretch it out well beyond 3 point line having gigantic advantages as it forces defense to basically play 4 on 4, then why shouldn't a guy who can hit logo 3s with high regularity (and consistency.) and also just shoot the lights out in general, while also having pretty good ball skills and athleticism, not go #1? why we fooling around with Chet who's body type might make him a huge liability and health risk, or Banchero who while having pretty good perimeter skill, is still a big.

A lot of folks are way overthinking this, Hardy's got the most valuable skill in this game, actually putting the ball into the hoop, preferably from as far away from the rim as possible. He looks about as athletic / more athletic than James Harden did in Highschool to me (which isn't totally fair, given that these days most highschool high prospect looks a lot better, in general, compared to even 10 years ago.), and obviously, in hindsight, taking Blake Griffin over Curry and Harden in 09 was a mistake, even without accounting for injuries. I think Banchero vs Hardy is about as close of an approximation of Griffin vs Harden as it gets.

So what's the case anyway? that Banchero is considerably better than Blake while Hardy is not as good of a prospect as Harden? (I might see Hardy not being as good as Harden, but I doubt Banchero really tops out as better than peak Blake Griffin.)

CptCrunch · Post #2 » by **CptCrunch** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:41 am

What are you basing this on? Hardy's high school stats and Youtube highlights?

If you want to make the argument that Hardy is the best prospect, he we need to see some G-League/college stats first right?

And are you not concerned about Hardy being listed as 6’4 with a supposed 6’8.5 wingspan? That is a small SG territory.

We know he is a scoring PG guard due to his small size. How well does he pass? There is a huge spectrum from Chris Paul (God-tier) to Irving (decent) to Lillard (fair) to Beverly (mediocre). We literally do not know which level he is at until he plays some non-high school basketball.

At the end of the day, he is likely a 6'3" kid listed at 6'4". That is a really mediocre sized prospect regardless of his skills.

Post #3 » by **Marcus** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:26 pm

this should be one of many entertaining threads for the upcoming prospect season.

EMG518 · Post #4 » by **EMG518** » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:59 pm

I'm not commenting on any one being the top pick until I see them playing at a higher level of competition this upcoming year.

God Squad · Post #5 » by **God Squad** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:00 am

"change my mind" lol

Hal14 · Post #6 » by **Hal14** » Wed Sep 1, 2021 1:50 pm

ok i'm just now getting around to watching some Hardy video. Just watched this one:

Watch on YouTube

While his talent is undeniable and his ability to shoot the ball is insanely good for a kid that age (off the catch or off the dribble, standstill or off movement, good form, high release)...the thing is I watch this video and it just seems like too much of 1 guy just playing hero ball scoring a million points and shooting from 50 feet away while the other 9 guys just watch. It doesn't look like team basketball. Not sure it would translate to wins. I can see him being a guy who drops 30 points a game in the NBA on a team that never goes anywhere in the playoffs.

But obviously he's still young, only 19 so he can get better as a team player. But i watch Holmgren, Paolo and Griffin videos and I see them moving the ball more.

tidho · Post #7 » by **tidho** » Wed Sep 8, 2021 1:56 pm

Hal14 wrote:...
While his talent is undeniable and his ability to shoot the ball is insanely good for a kid that age (off the catch or off the dribble, standstill or off movement, good form, high release)...the thing is I watch this video and it just seems like too much of 1 guy just playing hero ball...

exactly this. absolutely amazing talent...but why does he play every possession like there's two seconds left on the shot clock? I'm not at all surprised this guy chose G League over the NCAA, i'm sure he has little interest in playing in a college system.

Upperclass · Post #8 » by **Upperclass** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:23 am

Nick Young or Buddy hield.. top 10 guy not #1

clyde21 · Post #9 » by **clyde21** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:53 am

will depend entirely on if he has enough creative/playmaking juice to be a combo guard or if he's strictly a 2, if he's strictly a 2 then I doubt it, or if he's a plus defender at multiple positions.

Antman and JG just went top 2 each in last 2 drafts and he's kinda in that mold but not nearly as good or as outlier of an athlete as Green or even Antman.

i think it would have been much more realistic for you at this point to say top 5, just don't see any feasible way he goes ahead of Chet or Paolo even in a best case scenario for him unless he completely blows the G league outta the water.

Hal14 · Post #10 » by **Hal14** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:03 pm

clyde21 wrote:will depend entirely on if he has enough creative/playmaking juice to be a combo guard or if he's strictly a 2, if he's strictly a 2 then I doubt it, or if he's a plus defender at multiple positions.

Antman and JG just went top 2 each in last 2 drafts and he's kinda in that mold but not nearly as good or as outlier of an athlete as Green or even Antman.

i think it would have been much more realistic for you at this point to say top 5, just don't see any feasible way he goes ahead of Chet or Paolo even in a best case scenario for him unless he completely blows the G league outta the water.

Agreed that I don't think it's realistic he goes ahead of Chet or paolo.

Long way to go until the draft but at this point Chet and Paolo seem like near locks to be the top 2.

I don't think Hardy is a combo guard. I think he's a pure 2, like a Buddy Hield, Jalen Green, Bouknight, Beal, that type of archetype. Hardy does have what appears to be a very elite skill though - his shooting from 3, off the catch or off the dribble and with crazy range.

I think if next season he can showcase some good play making and/or defense it can help his chances of being the no. 3 pick.

Still a long way to go until the draft though..

CoreyVillains · Post #11 » by **CoreyVillains** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:06 pm

I actually have Hardy #1 in my pre-season rankings as well. Just watched a ton of his games and the kid’s scoring package is pretty nuts. Shot making is off the charts. I think he’s got a great frame to grow into, not concerned about his size. Definitely has good feel as a passer when he does pass, but what I’ll be watching for in the G-League is the willingness as a passer, which is a different discussion.

Watch on YouTube

whitehops · Post #12 » by **whitehops** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:18 pm

i'm very intrigued with him for my pistons next draft because he has all the skill in the world (imagine him and cade's shooting in the same back court!?).

but yeah a huge part of his development is going to be how well he can run an offense or more realistically keep an offense flowing. right now he has a shoot first, shoot second, pass third mentality which screams black hole, but that's all part of the development process. defense is a whole other story but in the g league hardy should look to show he's more than "a bucket" offensively.

the reason why guys like lillard, curry and trae young are elite is because they can do more than just flat out score the basketball.

Coeur · Post #13 » by **Coeur** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:23 pm

You just have to keep seeing 3 and maybe more complete freak shows with freakesh size and skills in Paulo, Chet, and Jalen Duren

There are most teams in the NBA taking one of those 3 bigs over a wing. Unless Hardy is level ahead. Right now it seems hes about their level or behind. Which is behind. To size

RollingWave · Post #14 » by **RollingWave** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:37 am

CoreyVillains wrote:I actually have Hardy #1 in my pre-season rankings as well. Just watched a ton of his games and the kid’s scoring package is pretty nuts. Shot making is off the charts. I think he’s got a great frame to grow into, not concerned about his size. Definitely has good feel as a passer when he does pass, but what I’ll be watching for in the G-League is the willingness as a passer, which is a different discussion.

Watch on YouTube

I look at some of the more older films of him and he played a lot more like a point guard, it seems last year or so he really pushed the envelop and tried to go full old Kobe.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the Ignite rotation shakes out, is Hardy just going to go full hero ball while most of his back court mate aren't exactly elite shooters, it'll also be interesting to see what happens when he play with more talented bigs, his teammate in highschool didn't seem to have higher level bigs, and Foster / Zeng certainly have talent, but they also have their own questions in terms of having never really played with more talented guards either.

Yes we'll need to see better playmaking than he showed last year, and obviously he needs to show he's not current James Harden on defense.

DCasey91 · Post #15 » by **DCasey91** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:02 am

Hield is a pretty bad comp. I see more Lillard/Beal mixed with Mitchell to be honest. I’m very excited about this kid and might pip him over Paolo. I got too excited over Green, whereas with Hardy he has a much better frame to grow into in the short term. Got to see how and if his playmaking translate which will determine his value.

To be fair as much as I love Paolo he doesn’t have the best archetype for team ceiling building. Leaky PF’s have caps as your number one outside of great/goat level shooting. It should be Chet this draft as number one but jeez he ways off bodywise.

ItsDanger · Post #16 » by **ItsDanger** » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:25 pm

When drafting, teams will value scarce talents more. Scoring at the SG position is in big supply. That's why he may not go #1 and why Booker, Lavine, Mitchell type players go #13. I'd have Hardy #3 currently in where I think he'll go, not where I think he SHOULD go.

DCasey91 · Post #17 » by **DCasey91** » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:47 pm

After seeing Green in NBA action I’m knocking down Hardy. Hardy is probably more equipped for NBA play due to his physical profile being much better. But there is an overabundance of his skillset which isn’t as it currently stands without big variety.

Have to see college play but he’s probably 3-4th best depending on how it works out. The literary on it is very strong imo.

Chet and Banch performs I wouldn’t take Hardy 1 or 2 and if Adrian Griffin Jr has a year then he’s my preferred 3rd best.

A guy that went 7th years ago by the name Jamal Murray had such an impressive outing. Big kid at 200+ pounds at the guard spot, clinical as heck that year

clyde21 · Post #18 » by **clyde21** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:12 pm

DCasey91 wrote:After seeing Green in NBA action I’m knocking down Hardy.

what an odd way to analyze players

DCasey91 · Post #19 » by **DCasey91** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:51 pm

clyde21 wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:After seeing Green in NBA action I’m knocking down Hardy.

what an odd way to analyze players

Nope transferability reigns supreme for me. I’ll play close attention to Hardy to see how well rounded his game actually is.

I have a feeling Cade would struggle because his inside game is lacking/outside shot is harder to get off then Hayward as he had more polish coming in.

RollingWave · Post #20 » by **RollingWave** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 3:25 am

Hardy was bad in the first exhibition game, and didn't play in the second, shot wasn't falling and most concerning was that he even had a C&S 3 blocked, but he did make a lot of nice cuts and drives and did a decent job dishing. The ignite wasn't featuring him nearly as much I thought they would.

Need to look a bit closer but the Ignite offense sets so far look really weird, a lot of motion but never really gets into anything good most of the time, they might need to simplify thing a bit in the early going, in game one especially there was a hilarious number of poor passes.