RealGM Consensus Mock - #9

[MasterIchiro]

I liked Daniels to the Spurs and Mathurin as Plan B. I have to go BPA here and it's Duren. Some think he could go as high as 5. He's raw but the Spurs are master developers. They're also still rebuilding. Duren makes sense if given a longer window to develop.

[SeattleJazzFan]

not sure i understand the sochan love. was rarely impressed when i watched him at baylor, he had mediocre production as a frosh, can't shoot the three, not a scorer, inefficient, etc.

[El Chivo]

Bpa: Johnny Davis

[G R E Y]

are you talking about Vassell/Primo? i don't think that is proof of BPA at all. yea you might make a high ceiling play or you might make a high floor player but that's not BPA.

again, rarely are you in a position to draft a player that is a TIER above everyone else outside the top3-5 depending on the draft.

Well even beyond them if you look back at our drafts the majority of players we've taken are guards. So there's Lonnie Walker, Tre Jones, Weatherspoon, Murray, Derrick White.

The point I was making is that despite having a glut at the position we still drafted players at the position so it's not necessarily going to stop us, nor should it, if we think the next guy is better than whomever we have or, in other words, BPA.

If there wasn't potential outside the top then players wouldn't keep emerging outside of it. They may not be in those tiers right now but again it's up to FO's to find those diamonds.

I just don't buy the idea that everyone else is pretty much set at notbbeing better than lotto guys. We've seen it time and again.

And to reiterate - right now, I'm not talking about guys on that particular list being better than the projected top 3, but which stands out from the others among that list for #9

well yea, that proves my point, Spurs play a lot of 3-guard lineups and rotations, it's not surprising they've doubled down on more guards than combo forwards or bigs. which is why I have them now taking Williams, a combination of value+fit, which is pretty much what every pick is.

again, rarely is a player draft that is so much better than everyone else on the board where you don't look at a schematic or cultural fits on your roster. it just doesn't really happen all that often.

who at #9 can be considered a consensus best player available? i don't see it. i think you have a group of players you can argue warrant the pick, and from there you look at which of these players fits X team the best.

the concept of BPA in general is pretty dumb imo. GMs often use it just as a catch all so they don't tip their hand or their board, but again, unless you have a Zion staring you in the face, no such thing as BPA where nothing else even matters.

I feel like we're talking past one another a bit when you go into consensus overall whereas I'm focusing on highest potential ceiling from the list there. That's it.

And teams make mistakes of not taking BPA when they already have a player in said position often enough that it's a cautionary tale. Then again other teams like Minny with their previous PG focus kept taking players at just that position.

It's one thing to be playing a three guard line-up and another to have players who can do what we need with them. It's why Lonnie didn't get an early extension and is now RFA. And another to need to resort to it because of a roster limitations of bigs?

We have a glut of 6'4"-6'6" players who fill mostly the 2, sometimes 3, and Keldon by default small ball 4.

We need size but more importantly we need to shore up the 4 more than anything else. Yet we took guards. We tried and failed with Luka oof. Milquetoast.

In this scenario, Williams despite his limitations in a modern game, is a sort of fit but we enounter the same issues with limitations of style of play that we have with Jakob because neither takes 3s or makes FTs well.

Wouldn't Dieng be a higher ceiling, long-term fit given his overall game? That's the kind of discussion I'm looking for. Just from this list who is the best overall highest ceiling talent not who is better than the top 3. Why would that concern us?

[G R E Y]

I liked Daniels to the Spurs and Mathurin as Plan B. I have to go BPA here and it's Duren. Some think he could go as high as 5. He's raw but the Spurs are master developers. They're also still rebuilding. Duren makes sense if given a longer window to develop.

Sorry must edit as I got players mixed up. Dyson was selected 7 here so he's off the board but if we're including selected players then Daniels Mathurin in whatever order PATFO chooses would make sense.

Apparently we loved Mathurin last season but he went back to school.

[G R E Y]

not sure i understand the sochan love. was rarely impressed when i watched him at baylor, he had mediocre production as a frosh, can't shoot the three, not a scorer, inefficient, etc.

Yeah me either. He's supposedly an FO darling per Athletic article, and maybe he's a personable guy and nailed the interviews. But I'm not in love with his game, toolsy though it is. I'm just meh about him and don't really get the hype. Makes me think part of it is the annual smokescreen come draft time, seeing if some team buys and bites and makes the player(s) other teams really want to fall to them.

[clyde21]

Well even beyond them if you look back at our drafts the majority of players we've taken are guards. So there's Lonnie Walker, Tre Jones, Weatherspoon, Murray, Derrick White.

The point I was making is that despite having a glut at the position we still drafted players at the position so it's not necessarily going to stop us, nor should it, if we think the next guy is better than whomever we have or, in other words, BPA.

If there wasn't potential outside the top then players wouldn't keep emerging outside of it. They may not be in those tiers right now but again it's up to FO's to find those diamonds.

I just don't buy the idea that everyone else is pretty much set at notbbeing better than lotto guys. We've seen it time and again.

And to reiterate - right now, I'm not talking about guys on that particular list being better than the projected top 3, but which stands out from the others among that list for #9

well yea, that proves my point, Spurs play a lot of 3-guard lineups and rotations, it's not surprising they've doubled down on more guards than combo forwards or bigs. which is why I have them now taking Williams, a combination of value+fit, which is pretty much what every pick is.

again, rarely is a player draft that is so much better than everyone else on the board where you don't look at a schematic or cultural fits on your roster. it just doesn't really happen all that often.

who at #9 can be considered a consensus best player available? i don't see it. i think you have a group of players you can argue warrant the pick, and from there you look at which of these players fits X team the best.

the concept of BPA in general is pretty dumb imo. GMs often use it just as a catch all so they don't tip their hand or their board, but again, unless you have a Zion staring you in the face, no such thing as BPA where nothing else even matters.

I feel like we're talking past one another a bit when you go into consensus overall whereas I'm focusing on highest potential ceiling from the list there. That's it.

And teams make mistakes of not taking BPA when they already have a player in said position often enough that it's a cautionary tale. Then again other teams like Minny with their previous PG focus kept taking players at just that position.

It's one thing to be playing a three guard line-up and another to have players who can do what we need with them. It's why Lonnie didn't get an early extension and is now RFA. And another to need to resort to it because of a roster limitations of bigs?

We have a glut of 6'4"-6'6" players who fill mostly the 2, sometimes 3, and Keldon by default small ball 4.

We need size but more importantly we need to shore up the 4 more than anything else. Yet we took guards. We tried and failed with Luka oof. Milquetoast.

In this scenario, Williams despite his limitations in a modern game, is a sort of fit but we enounter the same issues with limitations of style of play that we have with Jakob because neither takes 3s or makes FTs well.

Wouldn't Dieng be a higher ceiling, long-term fit given his overall game? That's the kind of discussion I'm looking for. Just from this list who is the best overall highest ceiling talent not who is better than the top 3. Why would that concern us?

you can definitely make an argument that Dieng has a higher ceiling than Williams but does higher ceiling = BPA? you can make an argument Dieng has a higher ceiling than everyone in the draft, doesn't mean he's the BPA or should be the #1 overall pick. i think that's where our disagreement is.

if your point is that you should be aiming higher in terms of ceiling than a Mark Williams, I def get it. i'm usually not too into drafting 5s this high in the draft unless they are special (Mobley) but I think it's a rather weak class and Williams has some outlier tools I am willing to bet on at this point for the Spurs.

[baldur]

Isn't the whole point of the draft order giving teams the chance to select the player who is relatively better than the others available?

[WargamesX]

Bpa: Johnny Davis

That’s what I thought

[babyjax13]

I think we already know Sochan is San Antonio's target, and they might even try to move up to get him.

[G R E Y]

I think we already know Sochan is San Antonio's target, and they might even try to move up to get him.

We do? What are you basing this on?

[babyjax13]

I think we already know Sochan is San Antonio's target, and they might even try to move up to get him.

We do? What are you basing this on?

They've just been relatively easy to predict because there ends up being chatter about who they like, often it involves doing second workouts with players. e.g. I had Primo's ceiling as being Charlotte or San Antonio because both of them were very active in trying to get him in for workouts: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2023626

We've heard plenty of noise (various rumors) about them really liking Sochan, so if this goes like it did with Primo, Murray, and White (most clear examples in recent memory of players we kind of knew pre-draft the Spurs liked, also Tony Bradley and Utah moved up to get him) they'll try to get him. They could easily have someone above him, but it just seems like too much smoke. Plus there are rumors that he has been very good in workouts, so I wouldn't be surprised if Portland was eyeing him at 7.

So, yah, I think we know he's a very likely outcome for them...probably their most likely target at 9.

[G R E Y]

I think we already know Sochan is San Antonio's target, and they might even try to move up to get him.

We do? What are you basing this on?

They've just been relatively easy to predict because there ends up being chatter about who they like, often it involves doing second workouts with players. e.g. I had Primo's ceiling as being Charlotte or San Antonio because both of them were very active in trying to get him in for workouts: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2023626

We've heard plenty of noise (various rumors) about them really liking Sochan, so if this goes like it did with Primo, Murray, and White (most clear examples in recent memory of players we kind of knew pre-draft the Spurs liked, also Tony Bradley and Utah moved up to get him) they'll try to get him. They could easily have someone above him, but it just seems like too much smoke. Plus there are rumors that he has been very good in workouts, so I wouldn't be surprised if Portland was eyeing him at 7.

So, yah, I think we know he's a very likely outcome for them...probably their most likely target at 9.

Mate, if you could provide these rumours (we've interviewed Sochan and maybe watched him at the Combine per Athletic) sources I'd be grateful. Actually hard to find such info beyond confirmed workouts/interviews.

We reportedly loved Mathurin last year before he went back so this is going to be interesting.

What do you think of Sochan overall (not necessarily for us)? I'm having a hard time fallung in love with him especially at 9. Thanks!

I'm going to have to pay attention to your mocks because despite knowing we met or worked out Primo last year, I was shocked we picked him. Had no idea we liked him so much.

[BlazersBroncos]

I like Johnny Davis here - probably the only guy left that has a high chance to be able to create from the get-go and SAS really, really lacks a guy that can do that (Murray is decent, but not ideal IMO).

I dont think SAS is in a position to target a elite utility guy like Sochan, they need someone that has the potential to be a 1, 2, even 3 offensive option. Davis has that chance.

[clyde21]

I like Johnny Davis here - probably the only guy left that has a high chance to be able to create from the get-go and SAS really, really lacks a guy that can do that (Murray is decent, but not ideal IMO).

I dont think SAS is in a position to target a elite utility guy like Sochan, they need someone that has the potential to be a 1, 2, even 3 offensive option. Davis has that chance.

Spurs have Primo who'll be able to do that