Jamal Murray?

[sweetcity]

Talent evaluation is the hardest thing in sports. Murray dejounte, chriss, bender, buddy, jaylen brown, luwawu, ellenson- this is a toufh 3-10 to deal with.

I think the biggest issue with prospect evaluation is that in the NBA it's so much about projection. You genuinely can't know for sure how an 18-20 year old is going to develop, which is why so many kids are drafted high based on strictly physical attributes and potential. Also from a fan perspective there is so much we can't evaluate on the mental side of things. How can we know what type of drive these kids have, how deep their love and desire for the game are or even how well they pick up and assimilate what their coaches teach them?

I don't necessarily favor an age restriction, but I would LOVE a D-league where players can really develop then join their team when they're ready. If each team had a D-league affiliate where schemes match their NBA team and players made enough money to make it worthwhile etc I think we would see far greater player development and less kids in the NBA with no high level skill or awareness.

Its possible to build a system like this, the Raptors are doing it with the 905. Good teams have good systems

[PizzaLord305]

Murray is gonna be nasty, if he improves his handle a bit and bulks up. Being a great shooter who can get your own buckets off the dribble and stuff is really valuable. Plus, he's super young and can develop the point guard skills he lacks now.

With that said, he's a pretty crappy defender, and he's kinda athletically underwhelming. I think his best case scenerio for being a member of a really good team in the future is going somewhere that already has a really good defender in the backcourt. Would a team like boston be willing to draft this dude and bring him off the bench for two years and eventually get rid of thomas? He sounds like the late game clutch scorer theyve been seeking. im not too crazy about marcus smart as a starting point guard

[CrookedJ]

Talent evaluation is the hardest thing in sports. Murray dejounte, chriss, bender, buddy, jaylen brown, luwawu, ellenson- this is a toufh 3-10 to deal with.

I think the biggest issue with prospect evaluation is that in the NBA it's so much about projection. You genuinely can't know for sure how an 18-20 year old is going to develop, which is why so many kids are drafted high based on strictly physical attributes and potential. Also from a fan perspective there is so much we can't evaluate on the mental side of things. How can we know what type of drive these kids have, how deep their love and desire for the game are or even how well they pick up and assimilate what their coaches teach them?

I don't necessarily favor an age restriction, but I would LOVE a D-league where players can really develop then join their team when they're ready. If each team had a D-league affiliate where schemes match their NBA team and players made enough money to make it worthwhile etc I think we would see far greater player development and less kids in the NBA with no high level skill or awareness.

Its possible to build a system like this, the Raptors are doing it with the 905. Good teams have good systems

Currently the obstacle is the lack of minor league contracts. With a D league team than can only have a few assignees at a time and those player having to be under NBA contract and count against the cap, it really does restrict the usefulness of the D league to a couple of guys, rather than a whole team of prospects.

Everyone else is NBA free agents aside from weird situations where a NBA draft pick is playing for the D league team, but has never been invited to the NBA camp. Guys that get a camp deal either make the NBA team or get released and draft rights are gone.

If teams could make a camp invite contract that carries over to the D league with exclusive rights ( if they don't make the team) that would be a way to expand the current system to NBA team assignments + up to 5 guys that were cut at camp ( NBA teams can bring 20 guys to training camp) That would at least be a start.

[RollingWave]

Currently the obstacle is the lack of minor league contracts. With a D league team than can only have a few assignees at a time and those player having to be under NBA contract and count against the cap, it really does restrict the usefulness of the D league to a couple of guys, rather than a whole team of prospects.

Everyone else is NBA free agents aside from weird situations where a NBA draft pick is playing for the D league team, but has never been invited to the NBA camp. Guys that get a camp deal either make the NBA team or get released and draft rights are gone.

If teams could make a camp invite contract that carries over to the D league with exclusive rights ( if they don't make the team) that would be a way to expand the current system to NBA team assignments + up to 5 guys that were cut at camp ( NBA teams can bring 20 guys to training camp) That would at least be a start.

Yeah, they should really just do what baseball do with 25/40 man rosters. They should have a 40 man roster type of system where guys don't take up actual in game roster spots but is contractually under you, this solves a lot of problems in terms of drafting stash guys and also the d-league and development players etc, and probably will push the draft to at least 3 rounds.

This also gives you more flexibility in terms of player injury and even potentially matchup based players in the future.

[CrookedJ]

Currently the obstacle is the lack of minor league contracts. With a D league team than can only have a few assignees at a time and those player having to be under NBA contract and count against the cap, it really does restrict the usefulness of the D league to a couple of guys, rather than a whole team of prospects.

Everyone else is NBA free agents aside from weird situations where a NBA draft pick is playing for the D league team, but has never been invited to the NBA camp. Guys that get a camp deal either make the NBA team or get released and draft rights are gone.

If teams could make a camp invite contract that carries over to the D league with exclusive rights ( if they don't make the team) that would be a way to expand the current system to NBA team assignments + up to 5 guys that were cut at camp ( NBA teams can bring 20 guys to training camp) That would at least be a start.

Yeah, they should really just do what baseball do with 25/40 man rosters. They should have a 40 man roster type of system where guys don't take up actual in game roster spots but is contractually under you, this solves a lot of problems in terms of drafting stash guys and also the d-league and development players etc, and probably will push the draft to at least 3 rounds.

This also gives you more flexibility in terms of player injury and even potentially matchup based players in the future.

It would make the D league level of competition better too if you could draft and stash there rather than just in Europe. We'd get more drafted players spending a year there before making the team.

There could be a 15/25 man roster or something. Similar to baseball (rule 5) you could put a cap of say __ seasons in the D league for drafted players without offering them an NBA level deal or you lose the rights to protect them.

I'm kind of obsessed with fixing the D league, it just has so much potential. Having the 905 team was awesome this year, could take my son to a cheap game and sit close to the action. Still watch some ( a few) guys that are relevant and interesting.

[Coeur]

Nba doest want a true minor league. The NFL reaallllly doesnt want a minor league. Lessens the chance of parity and the "star value" of individuals.

Nba prob likes it about how they have it.

[RollingWave]

Nba doest want a true minor league. The NFL reaallllly doesnt want a minor league. Lessens the chance of parity and the "star value" of individuals.

Nba prob likes it about how they have it.

I doubt it, NBA's relative lack of parody is because it's a 5 on 5 game where the best player get the ball most of the time.

[HotelVitale]

Nba doest want a true minor league. The NFL reaallllly doesnt want a minor league. Lessens the chance of parity and the "star value" of individuals.

I'm not following. Almost no one comes out of nowhere to be a difference-maker in the NBA (unlike in the MLB or even NFL), 95% of all-stars were 1st rounders. D-league successes tend to be rotation guys at best, and a new system would just give a team some more time and options to develop their good-not-great prospects instead of having to cut them to make room for a vet who can contribute a few mpg right away.

My guess is that the NBA doesn't want to develop the D league for the same reason I don't want to build that shed in my backyard--cuz it's a pain in thas and there's no one to make me do it.

[SHAQ32]

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

[saintEscaton]

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

Yes. IMO he's a smaller more unathletic Mayo with a working brain and more off the ball craftiness utilizing v-cuts/curls. I don't think he's a Reddick/Korver tier pure shooter either. Never understood these Brandon Roy comps either, he is shifty but doesn't have an arsenal of hestiatation moves/one one creating abilities, no where near the leaper and doesn't post up. He struggles converting inside the arc/in transition and can't really collapse a D, although Kentucky usually played 2 bigs with no range that cut off driving lanes.

[darealjuice]

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

Yes. IMO he's a smaller more unathletic Mayo with a working brain and more off the ball craftiness utilizing v-cuts/curls. I don't think he's a Reddick/Korver tier pure shooter either. Never understood these Brandon Roy comps either, he is shifty but doesn't have an arsenal of hestiatation moves/devestating change of directions, no where near the leaper and doesn't post up. He struggles converting inside the arc/in transition and can't really collapse a D, although Kentucky usually played 2 bigs with no range that cut off driving lanes.

I'm pretty sure that people who make the Roy comparison assume he develops his ball skills in the NBA, considering Roy was a Senior when he left Washington and had plenty of time in college to refine his game. I don't think he's as athletic as Roy was though, and his measurements are pretty inconsistent but I don't think he's as big as Roy either. He kind of reminds me of CJ McCollum with less developed ball handling skills. I don't really see the OJ Mayo comparison though to be honest, he got to the bucket a lot more than Murray does.

[Saberestar]

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

Yes. IMO he's a smaller more unathletic Mayo with a working brain and more off the ball craftiness utilizing v-cuts/curls. I don't think he's a Reddick/Korver tier pure shooter either. Never understood these Brandon Roy comps either, he is shifty but doesn't have an arsenal of hestiatation moves/one one creating abilities, no where near the leaper and doesn't post up. He struggles converting inside the arc/in transition and can't really collapse a D, although Kentucky usually played 2 bigs with no range that cut off driving lanes.

I think IMHO that some of you really underestimate the value of a player with his skillset in the current league.

The NBA is dominated by Curry for the last two seasons and he was a similar player coming of his college days (great shooter, great basketball IQ, not a good defender, not pure PG, not great athlete....)

Some other players with similar strengths and weaknesses are All Stars and way more important on their franchises than athletic wings or seven footers... Lillard, McCollum and Irving are examples of scoring PGs that are not over athletic and makes things working on both sides of the court.

I wasn't very impressed with him during the season but watching and learning more about hmi the last month made me change my mind. This player is special.

20 points per game and over 40% 3p as a freshman is huge, imagine how much better he can be in the next few years.
Murray has an amazing basketball IQ, he plays under control, he is a good athlete and has an strong work ethic...all of that put him like the third best prospect in this draft in my opinion.

[dorkestra]

The more I go back and look at Murray, the less I think he will be a good NBA player. I really hope Philly doesn't trade up for him. I like Dunn a lot better.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Mayo is a dumbass, Murray is a smart kid who can play PG and excels off the ball. it reminds me of Towns: he was known as shooter before Kentucky where he was made to play in the low post and now he's a beast that can do it inside out in the NBA. Jamal was a PG before Kentucky where he was made to play SG because of the existing roster and his great shooting ability and he excelled at his new role. He will be a much better player in the league because of it.

[KFL]

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

Maybe what OJ Mayo should have been, if OJ lived up to some of the hype

[No-Man]

The perfect comp for me is a stronger Juan Carlos Navarro

[HotelVitale]

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

Maybe what OJ Mayo should have been, if OJ lived up to some of the hype

Not that this makes a massive amount of difference, but Mayo was almost two year older than Murray when he as drafted. Mayo was one of those weirdly old freshman--he was 20 before he played a NCAA game. Murray turned 19 a few months ago, was 18 for most of this NCAA season.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

Maybe what OJ Mayo should have been, if OJ lived up to some of the hype

Not that this makes a massive amount of difference, but Mayo was almost two year older than Murray when he as drafted. Mayo was one of those weirdly old freshman--he was 20 before he played a NCAA game. Murray turned 19 a few months ago, was 18 for most of this NCAA season.

why do you think it doesn't make much difference?

[HotelVitale]

Maybe what OJ Mayo should have been, if OJ lived up to some of the hype

Not that this makes a massive amount of difference, but Mayo was almost two year older than Murray when he as drafted. Mayo was one of those weirdly old freshman--he was 20 before he played a NCAA game. Murray turned 19 a few months ago, was 18 for most of this NCAA season.

why do you think it doesn't make much difference?

I think it makes some difference but I don't think it's the same as Mayo being a junior when he left USC. The board can let that the age stuff go too far sometimes, and I don't think 13-14 months makes that much difference when everyone's had the same amount of time playing elite-level basketball. But it's obviously worth keeping in mind here.

[NewWolvesOrder]

Not that this makes a massive amount of difference, but Mayo was almost two year older than Murray when he as drafted. Mayo was one of those weirdly old freshman--he was 20 before he played a NCAA game. Murray turned 19 a few months ago, was 18 for most of this NCAA season.

why do you think it doesn't make much difference?

I think it makes some difference but I don't think it's the same as Mayo being a junior when he left USC. The board can let that the age stuff go too far sometimes, and I don't think 13-14 months makes that much difference when everyone's had the same amount of time playing elite-level basketball. But it's obviously worth keeping in mind here.

Well, to me Mayo's age just made his HS career accomplishments overrated from the start. He put himself on the map by being older stronger and more developed than his opponents. So he wasn't as good as as his reputation suggested. It also made his college achievements overrated. So he never was an elite prospect really. And it was proven in the pros. Same can be said about Shabazz Muhhamad.

A guy like Murray put himself on the map without the help of advanced age. He made himself a top prospect in fair competition. Shabazz Muhamad's dad lied about his son's age to get an advantage, they basically cheated to made him look a better player. Age is big advantage among teenage players, even 12 months.