DeAndre Ayton

[Jkam31]

I don't think Chi-Town was talking defensively. I took it as he was saying overall which you CAN say Ayton is further along due to how new Embiid was to the game at this same stage.

Isn’t that the point though Embiid being so new to the game and showing that much was shocking


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Marcus]

I don't think Chi-Town was talking defensively. I took it as he was saying overall which you CAN say Ayton is further along due to how new Embiid was to the game at this same stage.

Isn’t that the point though Embiid being so new to the game and showing that much was shocking


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Isn't that what point? It's a measuring stick in terms of the best bigs in the league and how Ayton could possibly fit. It's not a statement of Ayton being better than Embiid just that he is further along at this point. They are both relative new to the game, Embiid learns quicker, doesn't change the statement.

[ItsThatEasy]

His passing out of the post is absolutely phenomenal for his age. Great patience and decisiveness when he receives entry passes. Loving this kid more and more every game.

Watch on YouTube

[yoyoboy]

He'll be the consensus number one by the end of the season. Should be already. I feel like I'm missing something because I just don't get how someone like Bagley is seen as even close to Ayton. A 7'1 athletic manchild with great post positioning ability, excellent passing out of the post, a good looking stroke, nice touch around the basket, and an ability to run the floor that's unheard of for his size.

I already know that Nets pick is going to finish like 6th, Ayton will go one and become the next generational big man, Bamba will be off the board and be a future DPOY contender, and the Cavs will end up picking someone like Wendell Carter or Jaren Jackson.

[crazy_me_87]

The "questions" about his motor where alway way overblown.. He seems to have a great motor and his Skillset at 7'1 is simply unfair.. oh and he is ripped and strong as hell. He looks so much like a taller/longer David Robinson with more Range.

Bagely is great too but Ayton looks like that cant miss two way surefire Superstar right now. Basically a fitter Joel Embiid without the Injuries..

[No-Man]

Ayton moves so smoothly man, it's ridiculous, feels like he isn't trying just cause of that

[crazy_me_87]

Ayton moves so smoothly man, it's ridiculous, feels like he isn't trying just cause of that

Propably. The same with Ben Simmons.. people thought he was half lazy and lacked the "fire" in fact he has plenty of it.. he is just so smooth that you think "thats too easy for him" .. but its not their fault that the came comes easier to them.. that much talent and smoothness does that..

[blazeyo]

He just moves people off their spots for the rebounds without even trying. He is going to be an elite rebounder for sure.

His explosion off two legs is kinda lacking compared to his jump off of one leg. Looks kinda methodical in the post and still raw there.

His shot on paper looks nice, but it's going to take him some time to make it reliable. It's flat and it's going to be more of a problem from NBA 3pt range. His midrange is going to be fine even with a flat shot, but he needs to improve that if he wants to be a 3pt shooter.

Defensively he still gets lost off the ball, but his on-ball defense looked okay to me.

Should be the number 1 pick in this draft just because of his physical dominance that I think is very much translatable to the next level, but people should not sleep on Mo Bamba. I think his defense is a game changer.

[atlantabbq99]

He just moves people off their spots for the rebounds without even trying. He is going to be an elite rebounder for sure.

His explosion off two legs is kinda lacking compared to his jump off of one leg. Looks kinda methodical in the post and still raw there.

His shot on paper looks nice, but it's going to take him some time to make it reliable. It's flat and it's going to be more of a problem from NBA 3pt range. His midrange is going to be fine even with a flat shot, but he needs to improve that if he wants to be a 3pt shooter.

Defensively he still gets lost off the ball, but his on-ball defense looked okay to me.

Should be the number 1 pick in this draft just because of his physical dominance that I think is very much translatable to the next level, but people should not sleep on Mo Bamba. I think his defense is a game changer.

His free throw shooting is elite, which mean his overall shooting will transfer well into the NBA.

[blazeyo]

He just moves people off their spots for the rebounds without even trying. He is going to be an elite rebounder for sure.

His explosion off two legs is kinda lacking compared to his jump off of one leg. Looks kinda methodical in the post and still raw there.

His shot on paper looks nice, but it's going to take him some time to make it reliable. It's flat and it's going to be more of a problem from NBA 3pt range. His midrange is going to be fine even with a flat shot, but he needs to improve that if he wants to be a 3pt shooter.

Defensively he still gets lost off the ball, but his on-ball defense looked okay to me.

Should be the number 1 pick in this draft just because of his physical dominance that I think is very much translatable to the next level, but people should not sleep on Mo Bamba. I think his defense is a game changer.

His free throw shooting is elite, which mean his overall shooting will transfer well into the NBA.

It's not an absolute metric. It's just an indicator.

His flat arc is a problem regardless. It might translate, but it doesn't mean it's going to be instant, it might take him a few years to become an average 3pt shooter regardless of position or it might never be consistent enough.

He could also become an elite shooter, who knows. But it doesn't mean this isn't a concern.

[No-Man]

He doesn't look like an advanced shooter, he can shoot it but it's not a KP/Towns situation, he doesnt put it on the floor either, he is more of a traditional big, with an amazing frame and coordination for his size, and really good touch, but issues with defensive awareness, not sure what the upside is, maybe a better athlete/lesser passer Pau Gasol?

He is not as long as Pau, but otherwise, feels like a similar type of player.

[GimmeDat]

KP and KAT are jumpshooters first and foremost with great athleticism to compliment.

Ayton is a dominant inside C that has a jump-shot to compliment. Similar to Embiid.

Point being, I don't think it needs to be as good the aforementioned players, just serviceable, and Ayton's is that and more. With his size you don't want him falling in love with the jumpshot too much. That being said, it's good but can be great if he adjusts that arc.

The only concern I have is with his off-ball defense/awareness. I'm completely sold otherwise. #1.

[No-Man]

KP and KAT are jumpshooters first and foremost with great athleticism to compliment.

Ayton is a dominant inside C that has a jump-shot to compliment. Similar to Embiid.

Point being, I don't think it needs to be as good the aforementioned players, just serviceable, and Ayton's is that and more. With his size you don't want him falling in love with the jumpshot too much. That being said, it's good but can be great if he adjusts that arc.

The only concern I have is with his off-ball defense/awareness. I'm completely sold otherwise. #1.

dominant inside Centers aren't important man, and Embiid faces up a ton plus has a ton of size on Ayton, he is bigger, and more skilled

KP and KAT can shoot it in so many ways, plus they can put it on the floor and create their own shot, Ayton isnt close to that.

I don't see the upside for him to go nº1 and he is likely 5th or 6th on my board now.

[SlowPaced]

Ayton, to me, looks like a perfect center for the current game. 7'0'' with a 7'6'' wingspan, ripped, incredibly agile for his size and has a good touch on his jump shot. I'm definitely seeing shades of David Robinson.

[Apollo64]

#1 spot in the draft is his to lose

[The Master]

About his shooting, you have to take into account he's only 19yo - the development of bigs in shooting is just different than in case of guards.

It's VERY rare to have 19yo big in college who shoot over 80% on ft line, it's just more popular recently because the game developed to the level where face up game and jumper are much more valuable than great post up game - not saying the second one isn't still valuable but the fact is right now primary big game is based on face up and jumper.

Some time ago, I examine in this field every allstar big since 2001 NBA draft, where I took into account bigs known from good/great shooting:

- Pau Gasol - 63%ft as 21yo in Barcelona, over 80%ft first time as 28yo, still very good as mid range shooter in his prime (over 45% from 11-23 ft in LA in the years 09-11)
- Zach Randolph - 64%ft in college, first time over 80%ft as 24yo, still very reliable shooter on NBA level
- Amare - 67%ft as a rookie, still develop jumper to good 43-44% level from midrange with high sample (35% of his shots in one of Suns' seasons)
- Carlos Boozer - never become >80%ft shooter, still very good midrange shooter, 45% in his prime
- Chris Bosh - 73%ft in Georgia Tech, not shooting 3s in NBA until he went to Miami, first time over 80%ft as 22yo, in his prime elite midrange spot up shooter on NBA level
- David West - 66^ft shooter as freshman in college, in his best season elite from midrange
- David Lee - 55%ft shooter as freshman, still solid midrange shooter in his prime on NBA level
- Aldridge - 65%ft shooter as a sophomore in college, over 80%ft as 27yo, very good midrange game
- Millsap - 62%ft shooter as a junior in college, good shooter on NBA level
- Gasol - 68%ft shooter as 21yo, first time over 80%ft as 28yo, very good shooter in his prime
- Horford - 64%ft in college as JUNIOR, elite midrange jumper on NBA level, he was best shooting big on midrange as a Hawk in two seasons in a whole league (in terms of fg percentage)
- Love - 77%ft in college, not shooting 3s as NBA rookie, elite shooting big in his prime
- Lopez - 69%ft shooter as a freshman, solid shooter as NBA player
- Ibaka - 63%ft in his first NBA season, veeeeery reliable spot up shooter later
- Cousins - 60%ft in Kentucky, solid long range shooter right now
- Davis - 71%ft in Kentucky, very good midrange shooter right now
- Dray Green - 62%ft as a freshman, solid shooter from Times to times right now
- Embiid - 69%ft in Kansas, very good shooter right now

But recently:
- Turner - over 80%ft in college
- Towns - over 80%ft in college
- Jackson - over 80%ft in HS
- Ayton - as far as I remember 82% (as 18yo!) in HS and right now has 20/23 in these four games (87%)

Not mentioning KP.

So, first of all, I wonder if this is some new curve of development of bigs (better shooters earlier), or is it small sample and coincidence related to how talented these guys are.

But if you compare Turner or Towns to Bosh or Aldridge as NBA players in respective age:
- last season - Turner had 81%ft, 35%3pt and 44% from 11-23 ft (45% of his all shots) as 21yo; Towns had 83%ft, 38%3pt and 44% from 11-23 ft; 21yo Bosh in his 2nd NBA season - 76%ft, no 3ps, 39% from 11-23ft; 22yo Alridge in his 2nd NBA season - 76%ft, no 3ps, 42%from 11-23ft

So Turner and Towns still look better. And on college level, they were ~80%ft, ~40%fg from midrange without long 3 (with college range). So similar level percentage-wise to Ayton right now.

And I'm not saying Ayton for sure will become as good shooter as these two, but still it's very impressive how good his shooting is right now. And yes, ft% is not only indicator of how good players are shooting, I'm not saying he's better shooter than some guys mentioned above because of his ft%, but still it's very good example of how good is touch of specific player, and how advanced his shooting can become. In case of Ayton, he has amazing footwork (just look on 0:31 or 2:11 in video above or these pnps from yesterday), and he's 19yo. That's why in his case ft% is very good indicator of how good he can shoot in NBA (great touch, very good footwork), and wasn't in case of for example Valanciunas (still over 40% from midrange). Yes, his shooting from long range isn't ideal, but even Kevin Love wasn't shooting 3s at the start of his NBA career. Personally, I think in terms of technique he's similar to Turner.

To conclude, that's why I'm super-high on guys like Jackson, Ayton, and that's why I had Turner in top5 two years ago - because they can become elite shooters in NBA, and definitely will be very reliable shooters as NBA players. And I don't think Ayton as a Center needs some very good long range 3 considering his position and a fact he'll play most of the time close to the rim. But I'm sure he will be great midrange player (right now ~85%ft) and imagine how unguardable he will be with his size, speed, strength and low post skills. Embiid as a rookie per36 was shooting over 11ft/game, and this is similar to what Ayton will do in NBA. Because to defend guys like Embiid or Ayton and their face up game which DAA surely will develop (but last season Embiid, not less athletic and worse prepared Jojo this season) you have to have speed, size, strength and active hands, an there are few guys in NBA to meet this criterias against 7'1'' 260 lbs quick Ayton.

About yesterday, I didn't like his defense in first half and like it very much when he became much more active in a 2nd half. As I wrote before, he is very good individual defender with great on ball D (size, speed, movement - very hard to attack him with dribble or post up him) and will become very good pnr defender, it's all about his team defense and he shows some signs in a second half, but still way to go.

If he maintains similar level of production (20-12-3 on high efficiency in 30 minutes) he will be 1st pick next year.

[ppedro123]

Is he really close to 7'1?

He has crazy mobility for his size

[No-Man]

I appreciate the numbers but you gotta take into consideration the diversity/fluidity, Ayton like you said falls more into Turner's game on offense and if he doesnt pair that up with a certain level D, he is better on PnR than Turner and on the boards, but nowhere near as a rim protector, I am not sure how high he is value is.

It's he top5? absolutely, top3 or nº1 candidate? unless he shows a much more evolved offensive game or his D awareness approaches elite level in a year, not in my book.
He might still be the nº1 pick because those things don't have to go along with the reality all times.

[The Master]

I'm not THAT big Ayton's fan (definitely see his limitations in this moment) but comparing him to Turner is making Ayton so underrated.

I just compared their shooting - Turner is right now as 21yo very good shooter (last season 44% from midrange, this season he started 5/13 in 5 games from 3) and I don't see a reason why Ayton would not be able to shoot on that level in his 2-3 season in a league, with space to develop further. Not saying 100% he will, but similar technique, similiar percentages and similar touch to Turner when he played for Texas.

And beyond that, Ayton is great finisher with advanced post moves, great on pnrs, potentially very good passing game, great in transition - the only thing he's lacking is his faceup game, but he's 19yo big. Turner was two tiers lower in college, come on.

Almost every top big developes this part of game which is lacking - Towns was considered as poor post player back in Kentucky, and in his 2nd season in a league he was one of the best in whole NBA in terms of points per possession on low post, Griffin developed his jumper from almost non-existent to reliable, Markannen right now rebounds much better than he did in Arizona (his per40 stats in NBA are better than in college), Davis was considered as defensive anchor with offensive limitations but in fact he's great face up scorer, not to mention Embiid or list of players above.

And this is related to fact that big men just develop differently than guards. The same is with Ayton. You're too much sticked with what he shows right now (you said that Embiid has much better face up game when in fact in college Joel was also old type big man dominating low post) and less interested in what he can show in a future.

What if he develops shot at least to great midrange game (he's right now ~80-85%ft, so that is quite obvious), his very good passing touch will translate on another level (just watch this touch pass to Trier in first half, how many 7'1'' bigs do that?), his post skills will get better with time (right now they're very good), and he also develops face up game to attack a rim after putting a ball on a floor? Then he's a player on whom you can create your team's offense.

You compared Ayton to Gasol, but back in Memphis Gasol was 20ppg quite efficient scorer, and Ayton's potential is much bigger. Not to mention that Gasol as prospect had great post game, but also issues with rebounding and outside shot - as a rookie, 22yo Gasol was shooting ft on 71%, and had 33% from midrange. I know you're comparing them as NBA players, not prospects, but what I want to show is that in case of bigs it's always as much about current skills as about potential.

In fact, Ayton offensively is just much more developed than Griffin, Davis, Cousins or Towns were as freshmen in college. And Blake as a rookie scored 23ppg, 21yo Davis was 25ppg scorer, Towns in his second season had 25ppg, and Cousins is ~25ppg player since few years. And this is quite obvious statement, none of these guys have combination of shooting, finishing at the rim and post up like Ayton has.

And about his defense, like I mentioned few times:

- he's very good individual defender, because you won't post him up (he has more strength and size than almost every big), you won't shoot over him (7'6'' wingspan) and he's very good on ball because of his movement - right now, his best moments on D are when players try to score on him
- he will be very good pnr defender because of his movement - right now he plays too aggressive as help defender from time to time on perimeter but huge potential is there, he had some flash&recovers plays that are very rare to see in case of that big C
- he definitely lacks any instincts as rim protector, yesterday he had in a 2nd half 2 or 3 great plays in that department, but he has to do that on regular basis

But, in general, it's not like he won't be very good defender on NBA level, or even better (rebounding, pnr defense and individual D mean a lot in normal, non-Ayton case), but in his case it's all about developing as rim protector, what I want to say is that he is not bad on D right now, just so unpolished and raw in terms of using tools he has.

[DirtyDez]

Is he really close to 7'1?

He has crazy mobility for his size

On an insider UA site it was mentioned he measured 6'11" without shoes.