Potential sleepers

Justwar · Post #1041 » by **Justwar** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:52 pm

Belein is not a better coach then cal but that's neither here or there because one coach gets guys one year and the other often 4 years. I'll point out Josh Harrelson who had no business making any roster and played with the knicks for a year or the development of Darius Miller. But maybe lift is different, but defensively liggins was on a other level because he had strength. Lanky guys struggle because of no strength in the nba game and typically lanky guys don't develop their body unless they have such ridiculous length

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reanimator · Post #1042 » by **reanimator** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:00 pm

Even Cal would admit that Beilein is a better talent developer than himself lol.

As far as Xs and Os, especially on offense, no one is choosing Cal over JB.

Now in terms of recruiting, being salesman, and managing personalities then Cal all the way.

FYI, Matthews routinely checks the 4 man at Michigan and is incredibly wiry strong. Strength won't be his issue.

Justwar · Post #1043 » by **Justwar** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 2:57 am

Okay what pros has belein made?

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Justwar · Post #1044 » by **Justwar** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 2:58 am

Belein is known for the slow motion offense and a 1-3-1 that doesn't teach you how to defend in the nba

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doordoor123 · Post #1045 » by **doordoor123** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 3:51 am

Justwar wrote:Belein is known for the slow motion offense and a 1-3-1 that doesn't teach you how to defend in the nba

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Kind of agree. Michigan hasn’t been very good at developing players. I like Michigan the team, but I haven’t been able to stand the coaching. His system makes players look better than they actually are on offense and that zone is really annoying to watch/doesn’t teach guys how to defend. I freaking hate the zone. USC is my team and they use the zone all the time, but they only get stops when they play Man. Zone
is so easy to get around if make the extra pass.

It’s why I’m so low on Wagner. He would be a better prospect on a team that taught him how to defend. Put that guy on Texas A&M and he’s a first round pick. I mention A&M because I went to a game recently and was super impressed with their defensive drills before the game.

reanimator · Post #1046 » by **reanimator** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 5:16 am

Justwar wrote:Okay what pros has belein made?

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Pretty much all of the guys he got drafted were made by him. All mostly outside of the composite top 100s of their respective classes.

No top 20 guys who were shoe-ins like Cal has been afforded.

And you can't just put anybody in his system and get a pro as this year is showing but it does get guys drafted higher due to the spacing.

FYI JB hasn't run 1-3-1 in YEARS. Man to man with tons of switching like everybody else.

Justwar · Post #1047 » by **Justwar** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 6:39 am

I can name a ton of top twenty talent that busted. I've not seen Michigan much. Harrelson like I said was a northern Illinois recruit turned uk player, Darius Miller top fifty, liggins got better and he looked like a lost cause before Cal, Tyler ulis would he have been drafted if not for Kentucky? Look at his Memphis guys, Tarik black, Joey Dorsey, Antonio Burks was a walkon success. Camby turned out great, wasn't this hs superstar. You can't fault him for taking the best players because Duke followed that too with a ton of success.

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doordoor123 · Post #1048 » by **doordoor123** » Fri Dec 1, 2017 11:29 pm

I like Keenan Evans from Texas Tech. I don’t think he’s an NBA defender, but he can be serviceable on defense. He’s more of a bench scorer.

nolang1 · Post #1049 » by **nolang1** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 2:21 am

reanimator wrote:
Justwar wrote:Okay what pros has belein made?

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No top 20 guys who were shoe-ins like Cal has been afforded.

Last time I checked there aren’t 20 one-and-dones drafted per year, so consistently turning recruits in that range into first-round picks is no small feat. Willie Cauley-Stein was the #38 RSCI recruit and developed into a lottery pick.

reanimator · Post #1050 » by **reanimator** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 3:39 am

nolang1 wrote:
reanimator wrote:
Justwar wrote:Okay what pros has belein made?

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No top 20 guys who were shoe-ins like Cal has been afforded.

Last time I checked there aren’t 20 one-and-dones drafted per year, so consistently turning recruits in that range into first-round picks is no small feat. Willie Cauley-Stein was the #38 RSCI recruit and developed into a lottery pick.

Sure, but its not as impressive as getting guys outside of the composite 100 drafted 1st round when talking player development.

Getting Nik Stauskas and Trey Burke to go lottery is more impressive than Willie Cauley-Stein.

Justwar · Post #1051 » by **Justwar** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 4:08 am

Nik stauskas was a 4 star player. Trey a top hundred. His best Michigan player to develop was caris levert. But I would address that when you compare his job with the Memphis guys(including a walkon) , UMass guys and Josh Harrelson at uk. Obviously not currently in the nba now but as a very low ranked junior college center he did get a couple years in. Cal develops players when needed, and he has only really needed to with Josh Harrelson because at uk plus recruiting ability you can get anyone. Don't punish a guy because he gets so many one and dones

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TheSuzerain · Post #1052 » by **TheSuzerain** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 4:21 am

Can you please stop talking about Josh Harrelson. No one cares about Josh Harrelson.

Justwar · Post #1053 » by **Justwar** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 5:01 am

The statement was that Cal doesn't develop players. I'll refrain from the h word and say has belein ever took a walk on to the nba

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reanimator · Post #1054 » by **reanimator** » Sat Dec 2, 2017 9:32 pm

Any thoughts on any of these guys?

Nick Weiler-Babb
Tre'Shaun Fletcher
Yoeli Childs
Sam Merrill
Robert Franks
Jaylen Barford
Tres Tinkle
Dakota Mathias
Keita Bates-Diop

CP War Hawks · Post #1055 » by **CP War Hawks** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 9:39 pm

I'm sure something has already mentioned Mykhailiuk. He's killing it shooting 54% on 3s. Yeah he's a senior but only 20, the same age as alot of current rookies.

Surely the Hawks would take him with the Rockets pick or their own top 3, 2nd rounder. Okogie has disappeared and fallen out of favor with his suspension and finger injury. He's someone to keep tabs on.

doordoor123 · Post #1056 » by **doordoor123** » Sun Dec 3, 2017 11:30 pm

CP War Hawks wrote:I'm sure something has already mentioned Mykhailiuk. He's killing it shooting 54% on 3s. Yeah he's a senior but only 20, the same age as alot of current rookies.

Surely the Hawks would take him with the Rockets pick or their own top 3, 2nd rounder. Okogie has disappeared and fallen out of favor with his suspension and finger injury. He's someone to keep tabs on.

I like him a lot. He’s also defending multiple positions and taking a bunch of shots off the dribble. He might end up being a late first.

The-Power · Post #1057 » by **The-Power** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 3:26 pm

CP War Hawks wrote:I'm sure something has already mentioned Mykhailiuk. He's killing it shooting 54% on 3s. Yeah he's a senior but only 20, the same age as alot of current rookies.

Surely the Hawks would take him with the Rockets pick or their own top 3, 2nd rounder. Okogie has disappeared and fallen out of favor with his suspension and finger injury. He's someone to keep tabs on.

I was really high on his potential when he came to Kansas. The potential of him, however, always hinged on him becoming an elite shooter and this has yet to happen which means that it's doubtful it ever will. Yes, he's on a hot streak right now but the past years have pretty much put a ceiling on how great he can become as a shooter, imo.

What he has improved is his defense. He plays a lot at the 4 for the undersized Kansas team and he has been able to hold his own. Still, to be more intriguing NBA prospect he would have to be able to play the 3/4 against NBA-level competition and this remains very much doubtful. And can he produce enough offense? We cannot expect him to do much with the ball in his hands so he must become a great off-ball player. The mindset (quickly moving the ball, getting to his spots) is there but he's still not as rangy as I'd hoped he would be in his Senior year. If he's not able to hit shoots from a 2-3 ft behind the line and/or with a hand in his face his off-ball potential is still limited.

And his defensive improvement, while admirable (especially given that he's also very engaged on that end), has a lot to do with having played in college and with Kansas for four years. In other words: you would expect him to improve just by being more experienced. How much of that really translates to the NBA considering his relatively unimpressive length and athleticism? Same for the offense. He looks in control out there, always moves the ball quickly and to the right places, finds his teammates more consistently. But while this good mindset will be there at the next level, how much of the positive results is a result of him being just much more experienced than most of the other players? Yes, he is an extremely young Senior but we cannot expect his learning curve to be as steep as that of similarly young Freshmen or Sophomores.

Mykhailiuk could end up being a useful player worth a late first-round pick – say Doug McDermott. On the other hand, he might as well be a player who's shot is not falling at a high enough rate to stay on an NBA court for an extended period of time which results in being out of the league soon or being a 14-15th man on a roster. I wouldn't take him with a first-round pick at this point but if this draft turns out to be not as deep as I still hope then he might sneak into the first round after all. It's just that his potential is limited while his floor is quite low as well – the main selling point for him would be that his skill-set is useful and easy to integrate if he develops enough to actually stay on the floor. He will get drafted but I'd probably take him in the second round and see how he adapts before giving him a guaranteed deal.

3toheadmelo · Post #1058 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 4:49 pm

thoughts on troy brown jr? seems like im the only fan of his on the knicks board

The-Power · Post #1059 » by **The-Power** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 4:58 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:thoughts on troy brown jr? seems like im the only fan of his on the knicks board

I'm his second fan.

He has ways to go and might be better off staying another year at Oregon playing for the championship if he doesn't tear it up later in the season. If he declares, however, I would still take him in the lottery. There is just too much upside in him for me to not take my chances with a late lottery pick.

3toheadmelo · Post #1060 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Dec 4, 2017 5:22 pm

The-Power wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:thoughts on troy brown jr? seems like im the only fan of his on the knicks board

I'm his second fan.

He has ways to go and might be better off staying another year at Oregon playing for the championship if he doesn't tear it up later in the season. If he declares, however, I would still take him in the lottery. There is just too much upside in him for me to not take my chances with a late lottery pick.

i hope he declares. i feel like he's exactly the knicks need. dude can score/defend/rebound/great playmaker