2020 NBA Draft II

[Roddy B for 3]

Player A or Player B... and why?

A



B

Player A has better scoring efficiency and less turnovers so that seems more like a player who is less likely to hurt me, not knowing anything but the listed numbers I'm not thinking player B can be a potential Kobe or Iverson who is better even with lower %'s because those are the outliers. Especially with only 6 dunks on the year, that very much makes me think the player isn't enough of a gifted athlete who can get away with low shooting %'s.

I put very little weight on O or D-RTG but those are also better for player A so I put that tiny bit of weight on the scale as well.

From the numbers I assume they're both PG's and have similar asst % so that's not much help for player B.

I'm curious what even makes that a set of numbers that isn't obviously slanted towards player A? Am I wrong in 5hinking you slanted it that way? Who are the players?


Obviously drafted off those numbers alone would be foolishness, but I do think if forced to choose from those two on only those numbers provided, player A is the clear choice.

Who are they?

That's a fun question btw.

[getrichordie]

Player A or Player B... and why?

A



B

Player A has better scoring efficiency and less turnovers so that seems more like a player who is less likely to hurt me, not knowing anything but the listed numbers I'm not thinking player B can be a potential Kobe or Iverson who is better even with lower %'s because those are the outliers. Especially with only 6 dunks on the year, that very much makes me think the player isn't enough of a gifted athlete who can get away with low shooting %'s.

I put very little weight on O or D-RTG but those are also better for player A so I put that tiny bit of weight on the scale as well.

From the numbers I assume they're both PG's and have similar asst % so that's not much help for player B.

I'm curious what even makes that a set of numbers that isn't obviously slanted towards player A? Am I wrong in 5hinking you slanted it that way? Who are the players?


Obviously drafted off those numbers alone would be foolishness, but I do think if forced to choose from those two on only those numbers provided, player A is the clear choice.

Who are they?

That's a fun question btw.

Player A is Jalen Crutcher out of Dayton (had benefit of playing with Crutcher).

Player B is Kira Lewis Jr. out of Alabama.

Crutcher is also older by ~1.7 years.

[getrichordie]

We should also be talking about how Sandro Mamukelashvili is a SRP lock.

How many 6'11 guys can you find that has his offensive repertoire and runs the floor that well? If there's a spot for Melli in the league, there's a spot for this dude.

[getrichordie]

Here's my list of UDFA. Anyone on here that you definitely (100%) thinks get drafted?

Spoiler:

Joel Ayayi (20.3) -- 1/2
Matt Mitchell (21.3) -- 3/sb4
Nick Weatherspoon Jr. (21.5) -- 1
Kahlil Whitney (19.5) -- 2/3
Saben Lee (21.2) -- 1
Dexter Dennis (21.3) - 2/3
Jared Savage (23.3) -- 2/3
Cassius Winston (22.2) -- 1
Reggie Perry (20.2) -- sb5/4*
Naji Marshall (22.5) -- 3/4
CJ Elleby (20.1) -- 3
Isaiah Joe (20.9) -- 2
Udoka Azubuike (20.7) -- 5
Kaleb Wesson (20.8) -- 5
Ashton Hagans (20.9) -- 1
Payton Pritchard (22.3) -- 1
Cassius Stanley (20.8) -- 2/3
Josh Hall (19.8) -- 2/3
Keith Williams (22.0) -- 2/3
John Petty Jr. (21.5) -- 2/3
Immanuel Quickley (20.9) -- 2
Derrick Alston Jr. (22.9) -- 4/sb5
Lamine Diane (22.5) -- 3/4
Isiaha Mike (22.8) -- 4/sb5
Jordan Nwora (21.7) -- sb4/3
Ibi Watson (22.5) -- 2
Jonah Mathews (22.5) -- 1
Skylar Mays (22.5) -- 1/2
Makur Maker (19.7) -- 5
Nate Darling (21.8) -- 2

My favorites to possibly go drafted are Dennis, Lee, and Winston. Really intrigued by Mitchell, Savage, and Whitney as potential UDFA pick ups.

[No-Man]

Perry, Stanley, Quickley, Winston are 1000% getting drafted, that much is obvious, I think Nwora, Hagans, Joe and Elleby are likely too also if they all stay in, Dok probably too if he is okay with going 50s

Also Sandro is a) coming back b) nothing like Melli, so not sure what that has to do with anything

[getrichordie]

Perry, Stanley, Quickley are 1000% getting drafted, that much is obvious, I think Nwora, Hagans, Joe and Elleby are likely too also if they all stay in, Dok probably too

Also Sandro is a) coming back b) nothing like Melli, so not sure what that has to do with anything

What's the source on Sandro returning? Haven't seen anything about that.

Who is Dok? Azubuike?

I heard a scout talking about how bad Perry's awareness and IQ was. Guy went as far as to say he wouldn't draft him.

What is Quickley's role in the NBA? He's a good shooter, sure, but what else does he provide?

Hagans is good on D and is a functional passer, but where does his offense come from?

What does Stanley give you? He's not a great shooter, and he's not a great defender. He's just kind of average at the actual game of basketball but, yeah, he's super athletic.

Maybe Nwora has some utility as a small ball 4 but I don't see him being a good enough wing defender to have him being drafted. His injury history probably scares most away and is the reason his stock has fallen. 2 years ago, I would have said Nwora should be drafted, and I, in fact, did have him as a FRP that year, IIRC.

I can see a case for Joe.

Elleby is just too underwhelming, IMO. His shot is inconsistent as well as his form. He just doesn't pass the eye test for me. (here comes Sir-Swish-A-Lot to defend all of his Washington guys).

[No-Man]

I am just telling you that they are getting drafted, not that I agree or not with the fact, but that much is clear

Sandro has 0 buzz and was injured for like 6 weeks, I would def draft him if he stays in, it would just surprise me if he does, esp considering that they got Aiken and he should have a bigger role too

[Stillwater]

Perry, Stanley, Quickley are 1000% getting drafted, that much is obvious, I think Nwora, Hagans, Joe and Elleby are likely too also if they all stay in, Dok probably too

Also Sandro is a) coming back b) nothing like Melli, so not sure what that has to do with anything

What's the source on Sandro returning? Haven't seen anything about that.

Who is Dok? Azubuike?

I heard a scout talking about how bad Perry's awareness and IQ was. Guy went as far as to say he wouldn't draft him.

What is Quickley's role in the NBA? He's a good shooter, sure, but what else does he provide?

Hagans is good on D and is a functional passer, but where does his offense come from?

What does Stanley give you? He's not a great shooter, and he's not a great defender. He's just kind of average at the actual game of basketball but, yeah, he's super athletic.

Maybe Nwora has some utility as a small ball 4 but I don't see him being a good enough wing defender to have him being drafted. His injury history probably scares most away and is the reason his stock has fallen. 2 years ago, I would have said Nwora should be drafted, and I, in fact, did have him as a FRP that year, IIRC.

I can see a case for Joe.

Elleby is just too underwhelming, IMO. His shot is inconsistent as well as his form. He just doesn't pass the eye test for me. (here comes Sir-Swish-A-Lot to defend all of his Washington guys).

When youve stopped being obsessed with armchair scouting as reasonable assessment and actually had prospect access (nobody has much right now)it would make this a lot easier for you to realize how its pretty much like meteorologists. So i guess what u am saying is your wasting your life away caring this much about an internet opinion site. You look at film and data abd try to predict the weather based on history and potential, but at the end of the day you dont know jack compared to the boots on the ground.
Not suggesting i do either this year, but id put money on it several prospects on your udfa list are fringe 1st rounders and at least 2 with mid 1st skill.
Im bored as f right now even with added stress of covid creating more work and now dealing with potential of martial law soon i somewhat envy your apparent separation from it. But it seems unlikely your any more qualified to make these assessments than the easter Bunny

[getrichordie]

I am just telling you that they are getting drafted, not that I agree or not with the fact, but that much is clear

Sandro has 0 buzz and was injured for like 6 weeks, I would def draft him if he stays in, it would just surprise me if he does, esp considering that they got Aiken and he should have a bigger role too

Not saying I disagree with you, but where is this clarity coming from?

[Stillwater]

Yikes

Still not addressing any of the actual content I provided. Dismiss things that don't jive with your opinion (read: hope) and proceed to attack the poster. Maybe throw in a substance-less article in hopes that it speaks for you. Well done. Immature posting 101.

Are u gonna cry?
Get over it

[getrichordie]

Yikes

Still not addressing any of the actual content I provided. Dismiss things that don't jive with your opinion (read: hope) and proceed to attack the poster. Maybe throw in a substance-less article in hopes that it speaks for you. Well done. Immature posting 101.

Are u gonna cry?
Get over it

Dude. Can you just stop being a dick? Why do you feel the need to be this way? Are you okay?

[greg4012]

My assumption is it's a Cleveland thing

[getrichordie]

My assumption is it's a Cleveland thing

Idk. It's just annoying. Like people come here to discuss basketball and get away from all of the negative **** going on right now and this kid just comes on here and is just consistently negative and consistently an asswipe.

[clyde21]

Here's my list of UDFA. Anyone on here that you definitely (100%) thinks get drafted?

Spoiler:

Joel Ayayi (20.3) -- 1/2
Matt Mitchell (21.3) -- 3/sb4
Nick Weatherspoon Jr. (21.5) -- 1
Kahlil Whitney (19.5) -- 2/3
Saben Lee (21.2) -- 1
Dexter Dennis (21.3) - 2/3
Jared Savage (23.3) -- 2/3
Cassius Winston (22.2) -- 1
Reggie Perry (20.2) -- sb5/4*
Naji Marshall (22.5) -- 3/4
CJ Elleby (20.1) -- 3
Isaiah Joe (20.9) -- 2
Udoka Azubuike (20.7) -- 5
Kaleb Wesson (20.8) -- 5
Ashton Hagans (20.9) -- 1
Payton Pritchard (22.3) -- 1
Cassius Stanley (20.8) -- 2/3
Josh Hall (19.8) -- 2/3
Keith Williams (22.0) -- 2/3
John Petty Jr. (21.5) -- 2/3
Immanuel Quickley (20.9) -- 2
Derrick Alston Jr. (22.9) -- 4/sb5
Lamine Diane (22.5) -- 3/4
Isiaha Mike (22.8) -- 4/sb5
Jordan Nwora (21.7) -- sb4/3
Ibi Watson (22.5) -- 2
Jonah Mathews (22.5) -- 1
Skylar Mays (22.5) -- 1/2
Makur Maker (19.7) -- 5
Nate Darling (21.8) -- 2

My favorites to possibly go drafted are Dennis, Lee, and Winston. Really intrigued by Mitchell, Savage, and Whitney as potential UDFA pick ups.

you have Ayayi going undrafted did I read that right?

if Ayayi stays in he's for sure getting drafted, same with Joe...also Nwora, Stanley, Quickley

[getrichordie]

Here's my list of UDFA. Anyone on here that you definitely (100%) thinks get drafted?

Spoiler:

Joel Ayayi (20.3) -- 1/2
Matt Mitchell (21.3) -- 3/sb4
Nick Weatherspoon Jr. (21.5) -- 1
Kahlil Whitney (19.5) -- 2/3
Saben Lee (21.2) -- 1
Dexter Dennis (21.3) - 2/3
Jared Savage (23.3) -- 2/3
Cassius Winston (22.2) -- 1
Reggie Perry (20.2) -- sb5/4*
Naji Marshall (22.5) -- 3/4
CJ Elleby (20.1) -- 3
Isaiah Joe (20.9) -- 2
Udoka Azubuike (20.7) -- 5
Kaleb Wesson (20.8) -- 5
Ashton Hagans (20.9) -- 1
Payton Pritchard (22.3) -- 1
Cassius Stanley (20.8) -- 2/3
Josh Hall (19.8) -- 2/3
Keith Williams (22.0) -- 2/3
John Petty Jr. (21.5) -- 2/3
Immanuel Quickley (20.9) -- 2
Derrick Alston Jr. (22.9) -- 4/sb5
Lamine Diane (22.5) -- 3/4
Isiaha Mike (22.8) -- 4/sb5
Jordan Nwora (21.7) -- sb4/3
Ibi Watson (22.5) -- 2
Jonah Mathews (22.5) -- 1
Skylar Mays (22.5) -- 1/2
Makur Maker (19.7) -- 5
Nate Darling (21.8) -- 2

My favorites to possibly go drafted are Dennis, Lee, and Winston. Really intrigued by Mitchell, Savage, and Whitney as potential UDFA pick ups.

you have Ayayi going undrafted did I read that right?

if Ayayi stays in he's for sure getting drafted, same with Joe...also Nwora, Stanley, Quickley

Someone told me he was returning, so I just took him out, but yeah I think he gets drafted if he stays. Read reasonings on other players in previous post. I see the case with Joe but a lot of people think he's returning. I actually think Nwora goes drafted, but his injury, defense scare me. I can definitely see him being out of the league in 3 years.

[Stillwater]

My assumption is it's a Cleveland thing

[getrichordie]

Haliburton, Ayayi, and Dotson show the highest PIPM peaks with Anthony trailing. I tend to favor players who show peaks higher earlier rather later, so I'd order this list: Haliburton, Ayayi, Anthony, Dotson based on PIPM alone.

Not pictured, but Haliburton's defensive PIPM #s are head and shoulders above everyone else but trending down (have to be up to be trending down!) pictured with Ayayi and Dotson clearly in 2nd place, but trending up.

Also not pictured, but Riller (older than the rest) clearly has highest O-PIPM. This takes into account his level of competition. Ayayi's #s peaked the earliest (current Riller level) but took a sharp decline as of recent and is trending down and he's the only player trending down -- everyone else is trending up. Both Haliburton and Dotson's trajectory have sort of slowed, though, as their trajectory rounds off pretty well and is rising slowly but steadily while Crutcher and Lewis Jr.'s trajectory is SKYROCKETING with Crutcher's trajectory clearly trending to beat everyone. Not far enough along in Lewis Jr.'s sharp improvement over last 15 games to signal whether or not he's going to hit a plateau or keep going. Maxey and Anthony's last numbers show moderate improvement but nothing that jumps out.



Here's how Flynn compares (this chart is sans Dotson because I can only compare 8 players)

Holy **** cow, has he made some serious improvement on O and D, to the point where it trumps EVERYONE. His trajectory on both sides of the ball trumps everyones and it's not even close. He obviously shows the sharpest up-tick overall. His O trajectory is pretty much in line with Crutcher's in terms of rate of improvement and as far as rate of improvement on D, no one comes close to sniffing how strong his trajectory is, though it's still not as strong as Haliburton's peak and is just a hair ahead of Ayayi's current D-PIPM.

[Ruzious]

Here's my list of UDFA. Anyone on here that you definitely (100%) thinks get drafted?

Spoiler:

Joel Ayayi (20.3) -- 1/2
Matt Mitchell (21.3) -- 3/sb4
Nick Weatherspoon Jr. (21.5) -- 1
Kahlil Whitney (19.5) -- 2/3
Saben Lee (21.2) -- 1
Dexter Dennis (21.3) - 2/3
Jared Savage (23.3) -- 2/3
Cassius Winston (22.2) -- 1
Reggie Perry (20.2) -- sb5/4*
Naji Marshall (22.5) -- 3/4
CJ Elleby (20.1) -- 3
Isaiah Joe (20.9) -- 2
Udoka Azubuike (20.7) -- 5
Kaleb Wesson (20.8) -- 5
Ashton Hagans (20.9) -- 1
Payton Pritchard (22.3) -- 1
Cassius Stanley (20.8) -- 2/3
Josh Hall (19.8) -- 2/3
Keith Williams (22.0) -- 2/3
John Petty Jr. (21.5) -- 2/3
Immanuel Quickley (20.9) -- 2
Derrick Alston Jr. (22.9) -- 4/sb5
Lamine Diane (22.5) -- 3/4
Isiaha Mike (22.8) -- 4/sb5
Jordan Nwora (21.7) -- sb4/3
Ibi Watson (22.5) -- 2
Jonah Mathews (22.5) -- 1
Skylar Mays (22.5) -- 1/2
Makur Maker (19.7) -- 5
Nate Darling (21.8) -- 2

My favorites to possibly go drafted are Dennis, Lee, and Winston. Really intrigued by Mitchell, Savage, and Whitney as potential UDFA pick ups.

you have Ayayi going undrafted did I read that right?

if Ayayi stays in he's for sure getting drafted, same with Joe...also Nwora, Stanley, Quickley

Someone told me he was returning, so I just took him out, but yeah I think he gets drafted if he stays. Read reasonings on other players in previous post. I see the case with Joe but a lot of people think he's returning. I actually think Nwora goes drafted, but his injury, defense scare me. I can definitely see him being out of the league in 3 years.

I think Ayayi's one of the more interesting players in the draft. Is there a faster guard in the draft? He was quite a scorer in France, but Gonzaga's loaded and he had to take a back seat to some of their players. On a lot of teams, he would have had a much higher usage rate. His rebounding rate really sticks out - and he's got a nice A/TO rate - those assists will go up if he's given a bigger role. He was a really big-time player in both U-18 and U-19 games. Then he had to adjust to US ball and a smaller role. I think he's a 2nd round steal if he can improve his 3 point shooting. Also love Riller and Flynn - all 3 of those are going to help their team win. Of the 3, I'd go with Ayayi first, Riller 2nd, but I think Flynn has the highest floor of them.

[getrichordie]

you have Ayayi going undrafted did I read that right?

if Ayayi stays in he's for sure getting drafted, same with Joe...also Nwora, Stanley, Quickley

Someone told me he was returning, so I just took him out, but yeah I think he gets drafted if he stays. Read reasonings on other players in previous post. I see the case with Joe but a lot of people think he's returning. I actually think Nwora goes drafted, but his injury, defense scare me. I can definitely see him being out of the league in 3 years.

I think Ayayi's one of the more interesting players in the draft. Is there a faster guard in the draft? He was quite a scorer in France, but Gonzaga's loaded and he had to take a back seat to some of their players. On a lot of teams, he would have had a much higher usage rate. His rebounding rate really sticks out - and he's got a nice A/TO rate - those assists will go up if he's given a bigger role. He was a really big-time player in both U-18 and U-19 games. Then he had to adjust to US ball and a smaller role. I think he's a 2nd round steal if he can improve his 3 point shooting.

Agreed. I have him as a pick in the 30s-40s if he stays in the draft. I would put him just ahead of Dotson.

[Stillwater]

you have Ayayi going undrafted did I read that right?

if Ayayi stays in he's for sure getting drafted, same with Joe...also Nwora, Stanley, Quickley

Someone told me he was returning, so I just took him out, but yeah I think he gets drafted if he stays. Read reasonings on other players in previous post. I see the case with Joe but a lot of people think he's returning. I actually think Nwora goes drafted, but his injury, defense scare me. I can definitely see him being out of the league in 3 years.

I think Ayayi's one of the more interesting players in the draft. Is there a faster guard in the draft? He was quite a scorer in France, but Gonzaga's loaded and he had to take a back seat to some of their players. On a lot of teams, he would have had a much higher usage rate. His rebounding rate really sticks out - and he's got a nice A/TO rate - those assists will go up if he's given a bigger role. He was a really big-time player in both U-18 and U-19 games. Then he had to adjust to US ball and a smaller role. I think he's a 2nd round steal if he can improve his 3 point shooting. Also love Riller and Flynn - all 3 of those are going to help their team win. Of the 3, I'd go with Ayayi first, Riller 2nd, but I think Flynn has the highest floor of them.

will return to school imo. Has good length, decent bully finisher(wont transfer at 180lbs),good passer ,nice form on J when open but too slow w/ defender closing out, is quick in transition though/ no separation moves/meh handle strickly off ball, bad defender and overall bad effort switches,low motor issues at times, really raw overall . no thanks except for a late 2nd project