RealGM

Anyone have some perspective on Isaiah Todd? Is he legit or is he basically Perry Jones IV ?

Fischella wrote:

doordoor123 wrote:Wagner is like Dario Saric with a 3pt shot

Please, Saric is a Center, Wagner is a perimeter guy with real ability to handle

Just a bad analogy

When Saric was a prospect he had “real ability to handle.” We can go back to see what your perspective was, but no one predicted him to be a center.

doordoor123 wrote:

Fischella wrote:

doordoor123 wrote:Wagner is like Dario Saric with a 3pt shot

Please, Saric is a Center, Wagner is a perimeter guy with real ability to handle

Just a bad analogy

When Saric was a prospect he had “real ability to handle.” We can go back to see what your perspective was, but no one predicted him to be a center.

No, he wasn't and yes we did, he played Center for youth level Croatian teams often times and he clearly didn't have the athletic chops to translate into a Forward

It was plain as day

Thoughts on Greg Brown? He’s playing better since a slow start.

Do we know what Cades wingspan is? Or Suggs who I'm assuming is in the 6'6 area

ThunderBolt wrote:Thoughts on Greg Brown? He’s playing better since a slow start.

on the surface he's intriguing, length+athleticism, can shoot it, but other than that has no core competencies that will allow him to be a consistent player, still far away imo but the tools are interesting for sure

i would say 20-30 range, but usually this range is slotted for players that can contribute more in the short term on competing team, so I dunno, I guess he's kinda like Jaden McDaniels where he might drop to the 2nd because of it unless a team falls in love with him

I like his teammate Jones better overall as well

ThunderBolt wrote:Thoughts on Greg Brown? He’s playing better since a slow start.

Might be just me but he has odd body mechanics. Turns me off as a prospect.

MotownMadness wrote:Do we know what Cades wingspan is? Or Suggs who I'm assuming is in the 6'6 area

some people have Cade at 7 foot w/s but not sure how accurate it is, i think it's shorter than that, closer to 6-10 probably we'll see.

clyde21 wrote:

MotownMadness wrote:Do we know what Cades wingspan is? Or Suggs who I'm assuming is in the 6'6 area

some people have Cade at 7 foot w/s but not sure how accurate it is, i think it's shorter than that, closer to 6-10 probably we'll see.

Yeah I'm thinking 6'10 as well

MemphisX wrote:

ThunderBolt wrote:Thoughts on Greg Brown? He’s playing better since a slow start.

Might be just me but he has odd body mechanics. Turns me off as a prospect.

I think someone will be intrigued in the tail end of the lottery (I am, but not near the lottery). He reminds me a lot of Chriss - a lot of individually appealing skills, but none of them seem to be at a high enough level for him to be anything but a role player. I get the same vibe off of Todd (albeit I've seen him less, and the comp might more closely resemble Thon Maker).

The-Power wrote:

robillionaire wrote:for being such a hyped stacked draft class I'm really not overly excited about most of these players, anybody else feel this way or what? Hopefully Jalen Green and Kuminga look dominant in the g-league.

I'm not yet convinced that this draft really is unusually deep in terms of first-round talent, but I believe the top 10 is pretty impressive in terms of talent as well as diversity of player profiles. Whether or not the top 3 is indeed as great as expected by some (i.e. generational, not just better than usual) remains to be seen, though.

The top 3 hasn't been suggested to be generational, just very strong. Coming into the season Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Kuminga were all regarded as elite prospects, with Cunningham seen as a Simmons/Towns level number one pick. He's certainly lived up to that so far, and Mobley has easily proven his worth as a top 3-5 pick. It's obviously a bit hard to judge Green and Kuminga at this stage, which might be playing a part in people currently underrating the top of the draft. Their performance will obviously play a huge role in ultimately determining the strength of the draft. Suggs' emergence as a bonafide top 5 prospect has certainly helped a bit, as he was seen as more a mid-late lottery guy before the season.

Comparing it with the most recent draft, Cunningham would've been the consensus number one pick, and Green and Mobley would also have likely gone number one if they were eligible. Kuminga and Suggs probably would've been rated at a similar level as the Edwards-Wiseman-Ball trio and likely fallen within those first few picks.

Where I think the 2021 Draft has slightly lost its lustre is in the 5-10 range. This was previously seen as a strength of this draft (and in particular of this year's freshman class), but many of these players, with the exception of Suggs, have seen their stock fall rather than rise since the beginning of the season. The two Kentucky boys Boston and Clarke have been very disappointing. Boston was seen as a top 10 lock and even possibly top 5 before the season, whilst Clarke was a top 10-lottery prospect, yet both have probably fallen out of the lottery at this stage.

I've never personally rated him highly, but Ziaire Williams was regarded as a possible top 5 pick prior to this season but he's also been very poor. As I've said in another thread, he'll still probably take the Reddish/Knox route to the top 10 based purely on potential, but I doubt he'll ever pan out. Greg Brown's another who was seen as a potential lottery pick before this season, but he's only really been decent without really popping as expected this year and may struggle to establish himself in the lottery. Jalen Johnson's been okay for Duke but hasn't really done anything to bolster his stock. Some people also seemed to be grouping Caleb Love with these guys as a possible lottery pick before the season, which I disagreed with, and now I'm not even sure if he'll come out this year as he's also been poor.

Scottie Barnes is probably the only one from the group (apart from Suggs) who has performed above expectations and seen his stock rise. I think he could go anywhere from 6-10.

Ultimately I think the underperformance of this second tier of freshman is what's seen the draft seemingly 'weaken' since the season started. Whether or not at least some of this can be blamed on limited preparation time for freshmen due to Covid is something to consider. We'll only get that answer a few years down the track.

Unfortunately we're yet to see a significant group of other prospects play their way into the top 10-lottery range at this stage, leaving that area of the draft pretty wide open. Bouknight is the only one in my opinion who has concretely elevated his stock to that area and proven he's a legit top 10 prospect. Garuba is obviously another who's likely to fall within this range but I can't comment on him as I haven't seen him this season. Hopefully a few others pop up during the remainder of the season to add a bit more strength to the lottery. There are at least a few in the third tier of freshman prospects who have an opportunity to really raise their stock now - Keon Johnson, Christopher, Moody, Thomas, Springer, Sharpe, Nix, Todd, Bagley etc.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

MemphisX wrote:

ThunderBolt wrote:Thoughts on Greg Brown? He’s playing better since a slow start.

Might be just me but he has odd body mechanics. Turns me off as a prospect.

Yeah, Brown confuses me. He has tiny moments where he looks like he’s going to be fine, but the rest of the time his footwork is really slow. Like I think guys are going to blow by him at the next level. His reaction time can be slow and can’t get get in front of a moving man. If someone gets the ball and he’s already in front of them he does a good job defensively though. The same thing applies to offense too. Sometimes you’ll see him do a quick cut to the basket and other times it looks like he can’t run.

Really confusing prospect for me. I think there are underlying things there we’ll learn about during the draft process.

For a guy with > 30% USG to have 1 assist on the season it's comical. Doesn't mean I'm saying he's not a prospect, in fact, he's probably close to or in the Lottery for me anyway. But it's a huge red flag for him.

Anyone watch Auburn or Tennessee today?

cgf wrote:Anyone watch Auburn or Tennessee today?

Tennessee

26 points and 9 assists from Sharife Cooper in his debut!

europeannbafan wrote:26 points and 9 assists from Sharife Cooper in his debut!

Man he looks crazy good
in the highlights

clyde21 wrote:

cgf wrote:Anyone watch Auburn or Tennessee today?

Tennessee

Thoughts on their freshman guards?

Missed the game today, but I've liked Keon Johnson (as a long-term project) whenever I've caught them...seems like he might have the raw tools & instincts to become a lead guard one day...though Springer's generally disappointed.

europeannbafan wrote:26 points and 9 assists from Sharife Cooper in his debut!

Did anyone watch? I caught the first 8-9 minutes and liked his sudden-ness, comfort with the ball in his hands & passing, but I switched to the Leipzig-Dortmund game before he started to take off. Kid's tiny & the shots I saw him brick were rough, so curious how started to look once he settled in.

cgf wrote:

clyde21 wrote:

cgf wrote:Anyone watch Auburn or Tennessee today?

Tennessee

Thoughts on their freshman guards?

Missed the game today, but I've liked Keon Johnson (as a long-term project) whenever I've caught them...seems like he might have the raw tools & instincts to become a lead guard one day...though Springer's generally disappointed.

i like both, not sure if I love either yet, both are really toolsy but far away from being able to produce consistently, I have Springer in my top 16ish and Keon somewhere in the 17-25 range, but I think both have a lot room to move up just based on their base talent levels...just gotta be more consistent.