The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison

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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#121 » by Eoghan » Tue Apr 9, 2013 4:52 pm

BaunceyChillups wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
jman3134 wrote:Offensively, he kept his team in the game at the end. He's not Chris Paul, but he doesn't have to be.


Well I have to be honest. To me guys under 6 feet tall live & die in the NBA largely on their distribution ability, so when I see a guy at the college level abandon that rule rather quickly I start to worry. I'm not completely sold on Burke...but I do think a lot of the athleticism criticism of Burke seem rather absurd. I don't see problems with his ability to drive, or his ability to work his body to get a decent shot off, or his ability to draw fouls, and my lord that block was awesome.


Burke has a 3.1 assist to turnover ratio this year, one game where he decided to score more doesn't somehow negate that.

I agree with doctor MJ on this one. Michigan basically lost b/c they didn't play as many possessions as Louisville, they got ran out of the gym. A team with 3-4 NBA prospects shouldn't be ran out of the gym. There's no way Burke could have beaten Louisville playing 1 on 5 like he did, no matter how well he shot. He should have gotten his teammates more involved instead of looking for his own shot so much.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#122 » by MrBigShot » Tue Apr 9, 2013 5:02 pm

mmistras wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:You mean the 6' back court?


Now you're just looking for reasons to complain. Burke showed today he was able to contort his way up and around a guy like Dieng. How can you not have noted that?
He's looking for reasons to complain? You've been looking for excuses to make up for his bad play for the last 4 pages of this thread. Try to be a little objective


He is being objective. He's already stated that he feels playmaking ability is key for guys of Burke's size and is not completely sold on him. If your going to call someone out for lack of objectivity, then you should at least address the content of their post....what he just said was 100% valid. Burke was able to adjust in traffic. Dieng is no slouch...the dude is a good athlete. Siva is as well. Beyond that, Louiville's defense in general was just incredible.

Most of the people who don't see Burke as a starter on this level already have a fixed opinion and won't change it, regardless of what he does.

He will be a slightly above average NBA starter in my opinion, who can elevate his game in crucial moments...not an MVP, or a superstar, be he will be a good player.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#123 » by mmistras » Tue Apr 9, 2013 5:29 pm

MrBigShot wrote:
mmistras wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:You mean the 6' back court?


He is being objective. He's already stated that he feels playmaking ability is key for guys of Burke's size and is not completely sold on him. If your going to call someone out for lack of objectivity, then you should at least address the content of their post....what he just said was 100% valid. Burke was able to adjust in traffic. Dieng is no slouch...the dude is a good athlete. Siva is as well. Beyond that, Louiville's defense in general was just incredible.

Most of the people who don't see Burke as a starter on this level already have a fixed opinion and won't change it, regardless of what he does.

He will be a slightly above average NBA starter in my opinion, who can elevate his game in crucial moments...not an MVP, or a superstar, be he will be a good player.
a) I would completely disagree with you that he is not completely sold on him. Just look at the name of the thread he created. b) I thought that referring to the previous 4 pages would be enough proof of me addressing the content but if you want me to be more specific, I was saying that I find it a bit hypocritical that he's calling the 6' back court comment a reason to complain after agreeing with the statement that a Syracuse zone defense is something that he is not going to see in the NBA and is therefore not a valid judge of him as a player. Both just sound like pretty terrible excuses if you ask me
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#124 » by qm22 » Tue Apr 9, 2013 7:52 pm

This may be a pretty stupid comparison because I follow NCAA basketball very little, but he struck me as a shorter version of James Harden in his highlights. The way he got himself in good position and timed things perfectly seemed similar, although not the FTA rate.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#125 » by ComboGuardCity » Tue Apr 9, 2013 9:02 pm

Size and Athleticism is two sides of the same coin. The past five years, I've look at guys like DeAndre Jordan and Andre Drummond and knew they were going to be successful because past and present players with similar physical characteristics succeeded in the NBA. You look at a guy like Burke with above average passing and shooting, but below average size, speed, and athleticism and you can't find a successful comp. The only guys I can think of are Terrell Brandon & Jameer Nelson. Would that be his ceiling?
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#126 » by jman3134 » Tue Apr 9, 2013 11:13 pm

Well I have to be honest. To me guys under 6 feet tall live & die in the NBA largely on their distribution ability, so when I see a guy at the college level abandon that rule rather quickly I start to worry. I'm not completely sold on Burke...but I do think a lot of the athleticism criticism of Burke seem rather absurd. I don't see problems with his ability to drive, or his ability to work his body to get a decent shot off, or his ability to draw fouls, and my lord that block was awesome.


Check what I posted in the page before when I defended Trey Burke for his poor shooting. Against VCU, he turned the ball over. Aside from that, his decision making was great for the most part. Louisville and VCU are two of the top teams in the country at forcing turnovers.

I had the same concerns as you midseason when examining Burke. He tended to hoist up some contested threes without giving his team a chance. However, in this championship game, he came out shooting hot. Then he was relegated to the bench with foul trouble. Michigan maintained and extended their lead with unconscious three point shooting from just about everyone on their roster. When the pace changed and the shots stopped falling, it was only a matter of time before Louisville ran it on them.

Addressing a poster who suggested that the loss mostly falls on Burke's back, I whole heartedly disagree. A lot of it had to do with defensive adjustments and Louisville's yeoman work on the boards in the second half.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#127 » by Ell Curry » Tue Apr 9, 2013 11:22 pm

Michigan scored 1.17 points per possession in the title game, against the best D in the country. They lost because they gave up a staggering 1.26 per possession.

Obviously Albrecht's shooting bumped up the number a bit, but it's not like Michigan had trouble scoring last night when Burke was in the game. They just couldn't handle Behanan and Dieng on the boards, and Siva got hot. Now, if you think Burke's D took a hit last night, that's one thing. But the fact that he wasn't able to rack up a ton of assists against the best D (and more importantly, best screen and roll D) shouldn't hurt his stock.

I still don't see any reason to believe Burke can't be the QB for a very efficient offense in the NBA, as he was in college. He is a very good 3pt shooter (with obvious NBA range) so he will help space the floor when he doesn't have it, he's good in transition and he's been very effective on the screen and roll. Michigan had one of the 2 great offenses in College Ball this year (Indiana the other) and Burke was in charge of it the whole year.

The guy was only recruited by one Big 10 school as a junior. Then as a senior he made a huge leap forward and won Mr. Basketball in Ohio. The next year he's a 2nd team All American and Big 10 co-freshman of the year. The year after that he makes a huge leap forward in efficiency (and his team follows) and is the best player in college basketball.

Just because he's small and not an athletic freak (and that's a bit overstated. His clean block of Siva last night - he's actually averaging .5 a game, which is very good for a PG - shows he has decent athleticism) doesn't mean he's not going to improve next year or the year after. He shot 74% from the line as frosh, and 80% this year. I wouldn't bet against him getting close to 90 with his work ethic and his history of improving.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#128 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Apr 9, 2013 11:34 pm

I think everyone at this point expects Burke to a be a starting PG in the NBA. His doubters are the ones saying "Can he be more than that?" enough to be top 3/top 5 caliber

He's a different style of player, but if Burke's career bought a house on Mike Conley Jr.'s street, meaning a rock solid, championship caliber starting PG, maybe top 10 in the league, but not blowing the door's down - Where would you pick that in this draft? For the people who think this is the draft from hell, would you then consider getting Conley's career a nice pick-up in the top 3/5?

I have Burke 9th/10th on my list, but I like this draft more than everyone else, so someone who expects the same career from Burke as I do may see it as enough to be top 3 on theirs
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#129 » by MrBigShot » Tue Apr 9, 2013 11:42 pm

I think a lot of doubters don't feel he will be starter quality.

Top 5? I think that's too high of an expectation...he'll have to compete against:

CP3, DWill, Tony Parker, Rondo, DRose, Kyrie, Wall, Lillard, Holiday, and Curry

Can't really put my finger on it, but Burke has something special. He has an aura about him when he's playing...like you feel confident that something good will happen when he has the ball in his hands.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#130 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:35 am

mmistras wrote:a) I would completely disagree with you that he is not completely sold on him. Just look at the name of the thread he created. b) I thought that referring to the previous 4 pages would be enough proof of me addressing the content but if you want me to be more specific, I was saying that I find it a bit hypocritical that he's calling the 6' back court comment a reason to complain after agreeing with the statement that a Syracuse zone defense is something that he is not going to see in the NBA and is therefore not a valid judge of him as a player. Both just sound like pretty terrible excuses if you ask me


I think you need to make less assumptions. The reason the thread is named as it is is because I saw people making Burke - Paul comparisons, not because I was trying to lead the bandwagon saying Burke would be a Paul-level player. Had I been trying to do the latter the thread would have been something more like, oh I don't know, "Trey Burke is a Golden God".

As for the 6 foot backcourt comment, well it's not like he was succeeding by backing them down and getting gimme shots. His success against them involved either 1) blowing by them...which is not made easier by them being short, or 2) taking rather out there shots...which should make one question his judgment more than his ability.

The fact that in addition to blowing by the short, quick guards he was then able to often drive right into the teeth of a defender like Dieng successfully only makes all that more impressive.

But no I'm not sold on him being a star yet (not saying it can't happen either). I don't like those longer shots. Don't like that between the Syracuse & Louisville games I can't even remember him driving & kicking (he either didn't drive, or he drove to score). These are not minor concerns by any means.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#131 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:38 am

jman3134 wrote:
Well I have to be honest. To me guys under 6 feet tall live & die in the NBA largely on their distribution ability, so when I see a guy at the college level abandon that rule rather quickly I start to worry. I'm not completely sold on Burke...but I do think a lot of the athleticism criticism of Burke seem rather absurd. I don't see problems with his ability to drive, or his ability to work his body to get a decent shot off, or his ability to draw fouls, and my lord that block was awesome.


Check what I posted in the page before when I defended Trey Burke for his poor shooting. Against VCU, he turned the ball over. Aside from that, his decision making was great for the most part. Louisville and VCU are two of the top teams in the country at forcing turnovers.

I had the same concerns as you midseason when examining Burke. He tended to hoist up some contested threes without giving his team a chance. However, in this championship game, he came out shooting hot. Then he was relegated to the bench with foul trouble. Michigan maintained and extended their lead with unconscious three point shooting from just about everyone on their roster. When the pace changed and the shots stopped falling, it was only a matter of time before Louisville ran it on them.

Addressing a poster who suggested that the loss mostly falls on Burke's back, I whole heartedly disagree. A lot of it had to do with defensive adjustments and Louisville's yeoman work on the boards in the second half.


It's hard for me to say his decision making is bad. I think Burke was clearly phenomenally effective yesterday, but I question the sustainability of the shots he took. When you talk about heat, to me that's you saying that Burke would adapt if the shots weren't falling, and I suppose that's the real question: How agile his adaptation And how capable he is in the other role.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#132 » by jman3134 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:08 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
mmistras wrote:a) I would completely disagree with you that he is not completely sold on him. Just look at the name of the thread he created. b) I thought that referring to the previous 4 pages would be enough proof of me addressing the content but if you want me to be more specific, I was saying that I find it a bit hypocritical that he's calling the 6' back court comment a reason to complain after agreeing with the statement that a Syracuse zone defense is something that he is not going to see in the NBA and is therefore not a valid judge of him as a player. Both just sound like pretty terrible excuses if you ask me


I think you need to make less assumptions. The reason the thread is named as it is is because I saw people making Burke - Paul comparisons, not because I was trying to lead the bandwagon saying Burke would be a Paul-level player. Had I been trying to do the latter the thread would have been something more like, oh I don't know, "Trey Burke is a Golden God".

As for the 6 foot backcourt comment, well it's not like he was succeeding by backing them down and getting gimme shots. His success against them involved either 1) blowing by them...which is not made easier by them being short, or 2) taking rather out there shots...which should make one question his judgment more than his ability.

The fact that in addition to blowing by the short, quick guards he was then able to often drive right into the teeth of a defender like Dieng successfully only makes all that more impressive.

But no I'm not sold on him being a star yet (not saying it can't happen either). I don't like those longer shots. Don't like that between the Syracuse & Louisville games I can't even remember him driving & kicking (he either didn't drive, or he drove to score). These are not minor concerns by any means.


As much as people would not like to admit it, Burke's performance against Kansas was very Paul-esque, dating back to his time at Wake where he would just take over games by himself. He's still no Paul, but he is a very special player and the best pg in this draft.

It's hard for me to say his decision making is bad. I think Burke was clearly phenomenally effective yesterday, but I question the sustainability of the shots he took. When you talk about heat, to me that's you saying that Burke would adapt if the shots weren't falling, and I suppose that's the real question: How agile his adaptation And how capable he is in the other role.


It's not bad by any stretch. In the Louisville game, there was a clear point in time where he was hobbled after taking that hard fall. The Louisville guards came after him in the halfcourt and he was able to draw multiple fouls, effectively getting his team in the bonus.

I'm not necessarily saying he would adapt, nor am I suggesting that he is super trigger happy. His shot selection is usually pretty consistent, and he does end up taking some very difficult shots. That is the knock against him at this stage, even though he tends to hit many of them when the game is on the line. He's athletic and crafty enough to score at the rim in the NBA. He can draw fouls. Burke is a willing distributor when necessary. He is able to catch fire from three, but needs to demonstrate consistency. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, Burke continues to get better, dating back to his junior year in high school.

It can only be up from here imo, but obviously he has limitations. His height will limit his ability to defend bigger, stronger guards. But, if Conley can be as successful as he is on D at his height, so can Burke.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#133 » by Upperclass » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:33 am

I cant put my finger on it.. and I really donot like his game all that much.. But Burke is going to be a really good pro imo. Dude just walks around pissed.. and it just elevates his play beyond his skillset.

Right now he has decent handles, decent quickness and a good shot. But once he receives pro training and competition.. Those good's will go to great. .you can just see it. Stylewise, he plays alot like a George Hill, but with a better Jumpshot and less on-ball D.. but he just has alot more passion, fire and focus than his opponents.. and I think that will lead him to outplaying alot of guards on a nightly basis.

With no Zone D, non-stop screen and roll/pick and roll O in the NBA.. I dont see how he isnt projected as the top performer from this draft.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#134 » by 8305 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:34 am

I don't see the George Hill comparison. He's a much more natural pg. The Conley comparison is probably as close as you can get.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#135 » by Roger Murdock » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:59 am

I think its completely reasonable to think that a peak Trey Burke can be just as good as a rookie Kyrie Irving - and thats worth a top 5 pick in the draft.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#136 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:22 am

Roger Murdock wrote:I think its completely reasonable to think that a peak Trey Burke can be just as good as a rookie Kyrie Irving - and thats worth a top 5 pick in the draft.


In this draft perhaps.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#137 » by DirtyDez » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:57 am

As freshman = Smart > Burke

FYI Smart is almost 1.5 years younger. If he came back to school next year he'd have a dominant season. He will be a dominant playmaking SG when he improves that jumper...
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#138 » by Juggynaut » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:40 am

A poor man's CP3 is a solid comparison I guess but CP3 was just so dominant even in college. His play making, ball handling, and scoring abilities he has today can be seen since his Wake Forest days. Definitely should be a top 10 pick especially in this draft.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#139 » by boogie-reke » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:31 pm

Jameer Nelson.
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Re: The Trey Burke - Chris Paul Comparison 

Post#140 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:36 am

DirtyDez wrote:As freshman = Smart > Burke

FYI Smart is almost 1.5 years younger. If he came back to school next year he'd have a dominant season. He will be a dominant playmaking SG when he improves that jumper...


Has to be noted that Burke's improvement over his freshman here was not what anyone would consider normal. Guys like Chris Paul and Deron Williams didn't see improvements like that.
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