Joel Embiid

[ManualRam]

well it looks like embiid has the potential to be someone that a team can give the ball to and play through.
drummond doesn't show that ability at all.
i think that's a big difference.

[black bart]

well it looks like embiid has the potential to be someone that a team can give the ball to and play through.
drummond doesn't show that ability at all.
i think that's a big difference.

Andre Drummond is #8 in win shares this year. He is a superstar.

[ManualRam]

well it looks like embiid has the potential to be someone that a team can give the ball to and play through.
drummond doesn't show that ability at all.
i think that's a big difference.

Andre Drummond is #8 in win shares this year. He is a superstar.

more like the ultimate garbage man. superstars usually have offense run through them, not just used as a guy sitting behind the defense looking for oops, dump offs and o-boards

[black bart]

well it looks like embiid has the potential to be someone that a team can give the ball to and play through.
drummond doesn't show that ability at all.
i think that's a big difference.

Andre Drummond is #8 in win shares this year. He is a superstar.

more like the ultimate garbage man. superstars usually have offense run through them, not just used as a guy sitting behind the defense looking for oops, dump offs and o-boards

ultimate garbage man is still a superstar imo.

[Hendrix]

more like the ultimate garbage man. superstars usually have offense run through them, not just used as a guy sitting behind the defense looking for oops, dump offs and o-boards

Being a superstar is determined by 'impact on the game' imho. You can impact the game without having the ball in your hands all the the time. There have been bigs througout the years that have had huge effects on 'winning' basketball games, but weren't the offensive focal point.

[ManualRam]

more like the ultimate garbage man. superstars usually have offense run through them, not just used as a guy sitting behind the defense looking for oops, dump offs and o-boards

Being a superstar is determined by 'impact on the game' imho. You can impact the game without having the ball in your hands all the the time. There have been bigs througout the years that have had huge effects on 'winning' basketball games, but weren't the offensive focal point.

i don't agree with that. to me superstars are the focal point of the team on either end or both. superstars can carry teams offensively and score when all else fails. superstars have systems designed around their ability. when the defense clamps down, the pressure is turned up, teams give the ball to their superstars to make plays.
to me they are not pressure release finishers who hardly have any plays called for them.

[Dr Positivity]

Drummond is more Tyson Chandler than prime Dwight right now IMO, so I would argue with ManualRam he is not quite a superstar

[Ayt]

Embiid's per 40 stats are in line with Frosh Oden.

Will be interesting if he can maintain that as his minutes rise.

Frosh and Soph Hakeem aswell.

Bar the better block numbers for soph Hakeem, the resembles between his per 40 that year and Embiid's so far is stunning.

(Per 40 stats)

Frosh Hakeem : 18.1 pts / 13.5 rebs / 5.4 blks / 0.8 asts / 2.0 stls / 3.1 TOs / 6.4 PFs / 60.7 FG% / 56.3 FT%

Frosh Embiid : 20.8 pts / 15.9 rebs / 5.2 blks / 2.6 asts / 1.3 stls / 3.3 TOs / 7.8 PFs / 67.6 FG% / 56 FT%

They were pretty much at the same age, and in the same situation minute-wise too, with Hakeem averaging just 18mpg that year.

Soph Hakeem : 20.3 pts / 16.7 rebs / 7.5 blks / 1.2 asts / 2.0 stls / 3.4 TOs / 4.8 PFs / 61.1 FG% / 59.5 FT%

Comparing college stats from back in 1981-83 to now is pointless since the collegiate game is so much different.

[Ayt]

I think you people need to chill with the raw African center talk. How does him being African put him at more of a disadvantage than any other foreign player? Embiid is doing something that most foreign players don't do, and that is play college basketball so he is getting a head start on the communication thing. I never heard anyone dwell on how Rubio is Spanish player with a underdeveloped jumpshot or how Yao was a Chinese player who would have to learn a new language but you people keep throwing it out here with Embiid.

Because there are no raw Chinese or raw Spanish bigs. They are funneled into the professional basketball system when they are young. Rubio started playing professionally at age 15. Yao was trained to become a basketball player when he was in elementary school.

Most places in Africa doesn't have these systems. You therefore see a lot of "raw African bigs" who have only start playing basketball in high school.

So, neither Rubio nor Yao played against U.S. players in any setting that is as competitive as college basketball and they never had to learn the language until they came over here. They never had to play within US laws until they came over here. By going to college he will be more familiar with the American game than any of those guys were before they entered the league. He is less raw to the American game than any of those guys simply because he is going to college and lastly NBA players have been going over to work with African players now for years with the Basketball without Borders program

Rubio was playing professionally in the second best league in the world at age 14. The competition he faced at that age in the ACB league crushes the NCAA. Rubio also played for the Silver medal Spanish team at age 17 in the 2008 Olympics.

[black bart]

Drummond is more Tyson Chandler than prime Dwight right now IMO, so I would argue with ManualRam he is not quite a superstar

He is Tyson chandler on steroids. Which is a superstar. He is getting 5 OREBs per game for god sake. I never seen a player as good as Drummond get so much hate. Clear cut top 20 player at the moment.

[ManualRam]

Drummond is more Tyson Chandler than prime Dwight right now IMO, so I would argue with ManualRam he is not quite a superstar

He is Tyson chandler on steroids. Which is a superstar. He is getting 5 OREBs per game for god sake. I never seen a player as good as Drummond get so much hate. Clear cut top 20 player at the moment.

a role player on steroids is still a role player.

[black bart]

Drummond is more Tyson Chandler than prime Dwight right now IMO, so I would argue with ManualRam he is not quite a superstar

He is Tyson chandler on steroids. Which is a superstar. He is getting 5 OREBs per game for god sake. I never seen a player as good as Drummond get so much hate. Clear cut top 20 player at the moment.

a role player on steroids is still a role player.

It is a team sport though. When you look to value added. He gets 2 steals (+2 possessions for his team), he gets 1.4 blocks (+? possession per game) he gets 5 offensive rebounds (+ 5 possessions for his team), he gets 13 ppg on 60 ts% (+ 3 possessions) - 1.2 tpg (-1.2 possessions). If you look at it in terms of possessions earned, he is a superstar. This doesn't include all the other defensive parts that make him important. His value is top 10 this league in terms of win shares. He is an absolute stud. Clear cut top 20 player. Even though he shoots 37 ft%.

[ManualRam]

He is Tyson chandler on steroids. Which is a superstar. He is getting 5 OREBs per game for god sake. I never seen a player as good as Drummond get so much hate. Clear cut top 20 player at the moment.

a role player on steroids is still a role player.

It is a team sport though. When you look to value added. He gets 2 steals (+2 possessions for his team), he gets 1.4 blocks (+? possession per game) he gets 5 offensive rebounds (+ 5 possessions for his team), he gets 13 ppg on 60 ts% (+ 3 possessions) - 1.2 tpg (-1.2 possessions). If you look at it in terms of possessions earned, he is a superstar. This doesn't include all the other defensive parts that make him important. His value is top 10 this league in terms of win shares. He is an absolute stud. Clear cut top 20 player. Even though he shoots 37 ft%.

all that and yet he cannot create anything on his own and his team has actually performed better with him off the floor.
http://stats.nba.com/teamVsPlayer.html? ... ode=Totals
superstars have offenses built around them. an offense built around drummond wouldn't scare opposing teams one bit. give him the ball in the post and watch him display a poor feel, poor footwork, get pushed off balance by someone he has a 30-40 lb weight advantage over en route to an awkward looking jump hook brick.

but back to the topic at hand. embiid shows great patience catching the ball in the post. seems to understand post and repost well, but he can be almost too patient at times. he can go quickly with his moves but he's not consistent with it. on reposts he needs to work on burying his man deeper instead of maintaining the same position. that'll likely come in time though. he's already showing advanced stuff in the post and definitely looks like a future post hub with his scoring and passing instincts.

[Dr Positivity]

I like Roy Hibbert as the Embiid comparison, which is great so long as the guy picked after him isn't a superstar

[Dat2U]

Drummond is more Tyson Chandler than prime Dwight right now IMO, so I would argue with ManualRam he is not quite a superstar

Tyson Chandler has a ring. Dwight doesn't.

Andre Drummond is like a bigger Ben Wallace, who also has a ring.

He may not fit the definition of a superstar but you can certainly win a ring with him as a core piece.

[Big_C_KU]

Drummond is more Tyson Chandler than prime Dwight right now IMO, so I would argue with ManualRam he is not quite a superstar

Tyson Chandler has a ring. Dwight doesn't.

Andre Drummond is like a bigger Ben Wallace, who also has a ring.

He may not fit the definition of a superstar but you can certainly win a ring with him as a core piece.

This. No one would ever mistake Ben Wallace for a superstar. Core piece center on a team? Sure. But a superstar? Not even close. To do that you have to be dominate on both ends not just one.

The fact that some people want to call 13.3 ppg and 12.9 rpg on the cusp of superstar for a C and the fact that its even an argument shows how far the C position has fallen. Dwight Howard used to just be an average center in the NBA now he's the standard.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[RoyceDa59]

Embiid is #1 on my draft list.

[boogie-reke]

Question for you draftheads, who would you take in a draft joel embiid vs andre drummond

I don't think there is a wrong answer. It depends on your taste. If you prefer a Shaquille O'Neil like, physically dominating center, you choose Drummond. If you prefer a Tim Duncan like, skilled big man, I think you take Embiid.

That's just a massive, massive slap in the face insult to a bigman as skilled as Shaquille.

Andre Drummond would give his left hand to have the skill, coordination, patience and footwork that Shaq had.

Offensively, until proven otherwise, you can compare him to Ben Wallace a lot more then you can to Shaquille.

[LloydFree]

Question for you draftheads, who would you take in a draft joel embiid vs andre drummond

I don't think there is a wrong answer. It depends on your taste. If you prefer a Shaquille O'Neil like, physically dominating center, you choose Drummond. If you prefer a Tim Duncan like, skilled big man, I think you take Embiid.

That's just a massive, massive slap in the face insult to a bigman as skilled as Shaquille.

Andre Drummond would give his left hand to have the skill, coordination, patience and footwork that Shaq had.

Offensively, until proven otherwise, you can compare him to Ben Wallace a lot more then you can to Shaquille.

I offer my sincerest apologies for the insult that I made to Shaquille O'neil.

[boogie-reke]

Thank you.

I'll make sure he gets it.