Trae Young

[doordoor123]

I think your watching a terrible pg crop and just settling he'll be better than most. I think it's ridiculous to suggest he's a better athlete than Thomas and they have the same length with Thomas having a much higher vertical. Would you draft patty mills early first round?

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM mobile app

Isaiah Thomas and Trae Young have the same length? Young is 6'2 and Isaiah is 5'9... sure IT has longer wingspan to height ratio, but he still isn't longer.

Patty Mills was a much inferior college player and it's not even close. a sub .530TS% player in a much weaker conference, Young is a much better 3pt shooter, better passer, better dribbler and a better defender.

Are you comparing Trae Young to the current Patty Mills? cause if so, then it's disingenious. Young is one the best freshman pgs I have ever seen at this level and his stats back it up.

Don’t forget Trae Young is also only 19

[Alatan]

His athleticism is above average for a guard. He’s quicker than most back up point guards in the NBA and has like 5 speeds so at times he doesn’t always look as quick, because he has pace (something a lot of rookies usually don’t learn till like 5 years in the NBA and something that Donovan Mitchell had last year when everyone was calling him slow). If you watch his games you can literally see how much separation he gets. He gets a **** ton. Sometimes he even messes with defenders because he gets so much space. He gets as much space as Isaiah Thomas gets. And he actually has great burst/height around the rim, just doesn’t finish well.

I’m sorry, but I’m not convinced you’ve seen him play much. Everything you’re saying is contrary to what he is as a player.

I’m not saying he’s a star, but he’s really good.

I am not comparing lottery prospects to backups since teams are not drafting them to be backups.

Young has average speed for a NBA starting pg. He lacks burst as well and can't explode past his defender like many NBA starting PGs can. That doesn't mean he is doomed to fail. Harden, for example, is not the fastest or the quickest of players but does more than fine. Young does change speeds well and that's another way to get more separation along with his shifty handles. I was not saying he can't get separation i am saying he has trouble getting separation against college defenders, meaning that he will have even more trouble against NBA defenders if he doesn't improve something. You say he gets so much separation that he toys with his defenders. Show me an example because i dont see it at all. I haven't noticed that he gets a ton of separation but I have noticed that he likes to have ton of separation to shoot and settles for NBA threes that he bricks a lot. Again not saying he is doomed to fail but that he needs to address the issue to be a star in the NBA.

He is a below the rim player that isnt a crafty finisher YET. Maybe he becomes one like Kyrie or Curry are, maybe not. Great burst/height around the rim? No, just no. Il add that he picks up his dribble in traffic way too early forcing him to extend past his defenders before he gets to the rim that even further decreases his vertical.

I agree that he is really good, he wouldn't average the stats he does if he wasn't, he just has some weaknesses that question his potential in the NBA. Apparently we have different criteria for him. You are comparing him to backups while im analyzing what he needs to improve to be one of the better guards in the NBA.

People forget how good the NBA guards and players in general are. Most of the starting guys were lottery picks and dominated college to some degree.

Starting guards that are better athletes than Young:
Walker, Thomas, Jackson, Bledsoe, Wall, Oladipo, Dragic, Teague, Shroder, Lillard, Mitchell, Westbrook, Conley, Fox, Smith

Starting guards with comparable athletic ability to Young:
Kyrie, Lowry, Russell, Harden, CP3, Curry, McCollum

Some of the guys from the 2nd group are better athletes than Young but not as much as the guys in the 1st group. That means that Young needs to be an elite shooter and very crafty and smart to have similar impact with less athletic ability.

[The-Power]

Starting guards that are better athletes than Young:
Walker, Thomas, Jackson, Bledsoe, Wall, Oladipo, Dragic, Teague, Shroder, Lillard, Mitchell, Westbrook, Conley, Fox, Smith

[...] That means that Young needs to be an elite shooter and very crafty and smart to have similar impact with less athletic ability.

Similar impact to the more athletic players you listed? Because many of them just aren't that good despite their athleticism. Jackson, Bledsoe, Teague and Schröder are meh – can be solid but none of them is a Guard I'd like as my dominant offensive player. Oladipo has played well this year but the jury is still out on him. Then you have three unknown players in Fox, Smith and Mitchell of whom two have been bad thus far (which was to be expected but still).

Lillard, even though he is more athletic, has the same issues many less athletic players have in that he's poor at finishing around the rim. In other words: more athletic players, even good ones, can struggle in certain areas that Young might also struggle with. And then you listed players of comparable athletic ability (even though Harden's strength might put him in a different tier) in Curry, Harden or even Lowry who have had good to great success around the rim, at drawing fouls (Harden and Lowry) or at defending (both Curry and Lowry have become plus defenders for their position, better than many of the more athletic ones).

This is not to say that Young will not have some of the issues many posters fear he'll show. But even in this athletic league there are many players who are great offensive players primarily based on skill and who have managed to become decent defenders. Young, in my eyes, projects to be one of those players who skill-set and skill-level will allow him to have a great offensive impact – in theory. I say in theory because what worries me the most isn't his athletic ability or his skills but rather his mindset and mentality. Can he be an impactful offensive player without dominating the ball, i.e. will he develop a good off-ball game? Will he be able to play effectively and confidently as a role player in case he doesn't become an offensive anchor? The are the most relevant questions about him, imo.

[Alatan]

Starting guards that are better athletes than Young:
Walker, Thomas, Jackson, Bledsoe, Wall, Oladipo, Dragic, Teague, Shroder, Lillard, Mitchell, Westbrook, Conley, Fox, Smith

[...] That means that Young needs to be an elite shooter and very crafty and smart to have similar impact with less athletic ability.

Similar impact to the more athletic players you listed? Because many of them just aren't that good despite their athleticism. Jackson, Bledsoe, Teague and Schröder are meh – can be solid but none of them is a Guard I'd like as my dominant offensive player. Oladipo has played well this year but the jury is still out on him. Then you have three unknown players in Fox, Smith and Mitchell of whom two have been bad thus far (which was to be expected but still).

Lillard, even though he is more athletic, has the same issues many less athletic players have in that he's poor at finishing around the rim. In other words: more athletic players, even good ones, can struggle in certain areas that Young might also struggle with. And then you listed players of comparable athletic ability (even though Harden's strength might put him in a different tier) in Curry, Harden or even Lowry who have had good to great success around the rim, at drawing fouls (Harden and Lowry) or at defending (both Curry and Lowry have become plus defenders for their position, better than many of the more athletic ones).

This is not to say that Young will not have some of the issues many posters fear he'll show. But even in this athletic league there are many players who are great offensive players primarily based on skill and who have managed to become decent defenders. Young, in my eyes, projects to be one of those players who skill-set and skill-level will allow him to have a great offensive impact – in theory. I say in theory because what worries me the most isn't his athletic ability or his skills but rather his mindset and mentality. Can he be an impactful offensive player without dominating the ball, i.e. will he develop a good off-ball game? Will he be able to play effectively and confidently as a role player in case he doesn't become an offensive anchor? The are the most relevant questions about him, imo.

I agree that he doesnt need to be a great athlete to be a great PG i was just responding to the post saying i misjudged Youngs athletic ability. I even mentioned Harden as an example of a player that has great impact with limited athleticism in terms of speed and burst. The more athletic players i mentioned were just to show how athletic the PGs in the NBA are so we dont get confuse Young as someone who has "great burst/height around the rim" and that he is actually deficient compared to a great number of starters.
The thing that worries me about Young is his low release point and flatter trajectory. He is trigger happy and that worries me as well but that might be easier to coach. Stars who are not great athletes need to be elite shooters and very smart and skilled. Young is skilled and will get better but the other 2 are a question mark.

[The-Power]

I agree that he doesnt need to be a great athlete to be a great PG i was just responding to the post saying i misjudged Youngs athletic ability. I even mentioned Harden as an example of a player that has great impact with limited athleticism in terms of speed and burst. The more athletic players i mentioned were just to show how athletic the PGs in the NBA are so we dont get confuse Young as someone who has "great burst/height around the rim" and that he is actually deficient compared to a great number of starters.

Fair enough, I see how my response was a little out of the original context. Let's just say it was a response to future claims of some posters – which will surely come – who doubt his potential because of a lack of elite athleticism.

The thing that worries me about Young is his low release point and flatter trajectory. He is trigger happy and that worries me as well but that might be easier to coach. Stars who are not great athletes need to be elite shooters and very smart and skilled. Young is skilled and will get better but the other 2 are a question mark.

I wouldn't say his shooting is a question mark; at least not in the sense we usually use this expression for other prospects. What is indeed a question mark is how great his shooting can or will be and I think we can both agree that a lot of his appeal is predicated on his ability to shoot 3's off the dribble with good efficiency and on relatively high volume.

[Alatan]

I agree that he doesnt need to be a great athlete to be a great PG i was just responding to the post saying i misjudged Youngs athletic ability. I even mentioned Harden as an example of a player that has great impact with limited athleticism in terms of speed and burst. The more athletic players i mentioned were just to show how athletic the PGs in the NBA are so we dont get confuse Young as someone who has "great burst/height around the rim" and that he is actually deficient compared to a great number of starters.

Fair enough, I see how my response was a little out of the original context. Let's just say it was a response to future claims of some posters – which will surely come – who doubt his potential because of a lack of elite athleticism.

No problem, just wanted to clear that.

The thing that worries me about Young is his low release point and flatter trajectory. He is trigger happy and that worries me as well but that might be easier to coach. Stars who are not great athletes need to be elite shooters and very smart and skilled. Young is skilled and will get better but the other 2 are a question mark.

I wouldn't say his shooting is a question mark; at least not in the sense we usually use this expression for other prospects. What is indeed a question mark is how great his shooting can or will be and I think we can both agree that a lot of his appeal is predicated on his ability to shoot 3's off the dribble with good efficiency and on relatively high volume.

Yeah, i agree. His shooting is a question mark in terms of will it be good enough (elite) to base his game around it and have a big impact.

[Mulhollanddrive]

If Trae Young maintained his current averages for the entire season would he go top 10?

[doordoor123]

If Trae Young maintained his current averages for the entire season would he go top 10?

He will, because he’s that good. Honestly I would take him around 10-14, but this class doesn’t have a strong case against him. I think there’s a possibility of him going 7, after the bigs. He’s better than Jamal Murray was, who went 7.

[treefi]

If Trae Young maintained his current averages for the entire season would he go top 10?

Of course.

He'd go #4.

[Alatan]

He is all ready top 10 in my rankings.

[Justwar]

I have the same concerns over his shot as I did ball. Ball had a lower shot too. Shot amazing in college. Pros have that defended

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM mobile app

[PLO]

I have the same concerns over his shot as I did ball. Ball had a lower shot too. Shot amazing in college. Pros have that defended

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM mobile app

Young's handle is light years ahead of Ball's and he should be able to get to a lot more space than Ball in the NBA.

[doordoor123]

I have the same concerns over his shot as I did ball. Ball had a lower shot too. Shot amazing in college. Pros have that defended

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM mobile app

Young's handle is light years ahead of Ball's and he should be able to get to a lot more space than Ball in the NBA.

Ball’s shot is also super slow because of the motion. All of the shots he’s missing now is because of his low release, but also because he now has to rush his shot (because it’s also low). I don’t know what issue anyone would have with Young’s shot though.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I read he has the same measurables as Seth Curry who averaged 20 points at 18 years old.

[Alatan]

I have the same concerns over his shot as I did ball. Ball had a lower shot too. Shot amazing in college. Pros have that defended

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM mobile app

Young's handle is light years ahead of Ball's and he should be able to get to a lot more space than Ball in the NBA.

Ball’s shot is also super slow because of the motion. All of the shots he’s missing now is because of his low release, but also because he now has to rush his shot (because it’s also low). I don’t know what issue anyone would have with Young’s shot though.

Ball shot is a trainwreck. There is so much wrong with his shot that i could write an essay about it but i dont want to bother. Young "just" has a slightly lower release point and a flatter trajectory. Balls shot is completely useless in the NBA. Young could extend his shooting motion to release the ball higher and closer to himself and it would give him a better arc too. Ball needs a complete overhaul of his shot.

Edit: i may have exaggerated a bit on his release point it is a bit away from his body but not that low.

[King Ken]

He's been this way his entire life though. He's always needed the ball to be successful. I don't think he'll do well off the ball. He's a high usage low efficiency type. How many small low wingspan guys have been stars?

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM mobile app

Maybe not stars, but..
Monta Ellis
JJ Redick
Darren Collison
Ty Lawson
Patty Mills
Isaiah Thomas
TJ McConnell

All have short wingspans. They all have certain things that make them successful: Speed in the P&R, high-end three point shooting and shot creation ability (via handle or passing). Young has all of that. The stuff that makes each of these guys successful, Young has it all. He’s a high-end shooter, great handle/will be a great P&R player and he creates a lot of space with his handle.

Maybe there haven’t been many stars with his size, but every player is different. Who could have imagined Isaiah Thomas would be in the running for MVP? It’s kind of ridiculous saying he doesn’t have a chance to be really good just because of his wingspan. If he can ball, he can ball. Ball don’t lie.

These players were all upperclassmen or they are freakishly athletic (Ellis).

I really think you are underrating the level of difficulty jumping from the freshman PG to the NBA is. Most guys with +tools, athleticism, and length fail.

I am not seeing it. I watched a number of the games and still don't see it. I don't see how he can translate right now. I had similar questions for Soph Steph Curry. He stayed and left when he was ready. When he entered the NBA, I had no doubt he would translate, it was how far can he go. Young, I have a lot of doubt. PG is not the position you want to be leaving early. It's hard as hell to develop in the NBA and when you are as talented as Young, it's easy to develop in college. I think what you are doing is saying, he can do this and this and will translate in time? But I don't see many guys develop at PG in the NBA. It's too much responsibility and teams want you to play a role.

For example, the reason why Tyus Jones was told by scouts to leave was that all of them said the same thing. You might as well leave now. You have no potential outside of being a backup PG. You are suited for that role and your stock will never be higher than now. He left. It was an excellent decision. He's not Jones, Young is suited to be a #1 option and ball dominate. He's not an instant professional scorer type like Lou Williams or Jamal Crawford. He needs a system to be built with him in mind. That's a lot to ask for from a player who really isn't translating to the NBA all that well at a position that's extremely hard for any freshman to translate to. I don't think you are seeing what we are saying.

You are trying to say Young and do this and that and well, we know. But how is he going to do it in the NBA? 37.7% of three isn't going to cut it in the NBA. He shoots a Steph like 9.7 threes a game. Lonzo Ball was giving you 41.2% out of a realistic 2.7 3PA. He is bailed out completely by his team basically playing PnR to death with Young. He's not all of that quick either. He really me of a lesser athletic version of Shane Larkin but Shane had more pop on his quickness and speed as well as understood angles not to mention picking his spots better.

Young has a good feel for the PnR. When to pass, drive or shoot. That's where he's advanced but he's not an elite enough shooter at this point. This kid has the ultimate green light. This is like watching Bo Kimble and Hank Gathers and being like see, look at how athletic he is when his style of play isn't like any modern NBA PG that's not otherworldly skilled at his position like Curry or Harden. Young isn't that at this time. I think he would be wise to return back to college or workout at the NBA combine, get an eval and return for his sophomore season and improve his skills to the point where he's undeniable.

I read he has the same measurables as Seth Curry who averaged 20 points at 18 years old.

Seth did it at Liberty. That's a low tier small school. It's not even mid-major.

[DRK]

Not super impressed.
Needs to work on his handles as he likes to pick up his dribble in the Pick and roll when the hedge comes up. Doesnt really make plays for his teammates either. Small build and slender frame, and not a good finisher at the rim.

I see backup PG potential but I think he is overhyped

[No-Man]

He picks up his dribble too early at times, that's true, but his handles overall are awesome for his age

[The-Power]

Doesnt really make plays for his teammates either.

What?!

[Mulhollanddrive]

He's 6th in 2PT% and 4th in 3PT% on his team.

Not sure if that's meaningful or not.