Jaden Ivey

[Big J]

literally 0 evidence at the collegiate level that Ivey can turn into a lead guard in the NBA other than both of yall imaginations.

The evidence is his physical profile. He's got elite level athleticism that 99% of other guys don't have.

[Los_29]

Westbrook only averaged 4.3 apg as a Soph at UCLA, raw numbers don't tell the whole story. Ivey is shooting up the boards because of his athletic profile. Any guy who can force help to come their way any time they feel like it can get 8 dimes per game in the NBA just by passing to the guy who's man rotated over to them.

im confused - are u comparing him to Ja or Westbrook?

and are you suggesting that Jaden Ivey is going to turn into a full-blown all-star PG in the league because Westbrook did it? based on what exactly? what discernable PG skills does Ivey have right now for you to make that assumption?

Yea, he can definitely be an all-star modern day PG, in the Ja/Westbrook/D Rose/Mitchell mode. He's got the physical tools to blow by his man and force help every time he has the ball in his hands, and he can contort his body around help defenders at the rim very similarly to Ja. Athletic profile is half the battle with projecting these guys. You are the one who brought up the college stat argument.

The problem is there is nothing to really suggest that Ivey is comparable to those players in any way aside from being athletic.

Ivey was older than all those guys coming out of college and had significantly worse assist and steal rates than all of them. Westbrook also shared point guard duties with Collison. Ivey worked in a perfect system that complimented his skill set.

Ivey just has a lot to work on and there are some concerns with his inability to pass, defend and his overall feel for the game.

[clyde21]

literally 0 evidence at the collegiate level that Ivey can turn into a lead guard in the NBA other than both of yall imaginations.

The evidence is his physical profile. He's got elite level athleticism that 99% of other guys don't have.

im confused, so anyone with a good physical profile can turn into a lead PG in the NBA? that's just an absurd insinuation and pretty laughable across the board.

in fact historically speaking, the best lead guards we've ever seen have been the guys who HAVENT had the best physical profiles because their games develop completely differently.

[whitehops]

i really hope ivey pans out because his athleticism is absolutely electric. the good news is that pretty much wherever he lands he won't be rushed into being a lead guard. OKC has SGA, SAC has fox and mitchell, detroit has cade, IND has haliburton, etc. him going to HOU would probably be where has the most responsibility from day 1.

right now he's not the most natural play maker and is overly reliant on his athleticism to get where he wants on the court. i think it'd be best for him to be a secondary ball handler until he learns to play with pace (not at full speed all the time) and develop some go-to moves that play off the threat of his athleticism, not rely on it. my worry with ivey is if he's thrust into a role where he's relied on to create a lot of offense then he'll just continue to rely on his athleticism since that is what is most likely to get results in the short term. pretty much why i imagine westbrook never developed a slower, finesse game.

[mattao313]

Westbrook only averaged 4.3 apg as a Soph at UCLA, raw numbers don't tell the whole story. Ivey is shooting up the boards because of his athletic profile. Any guy who can force help to come their way any time they feel like it can get 8 dimes per game in the NBA just by passing to the guy who's man rotated over to them.

im confused - are u comparing him to Ja or Westbrook?

and are you suggesting that Jaden Ivey is going to turn into a full-blown all-star PG in the league because Westbrook did it? based on what exactly? what discernable PG skills does Ivey have right now for you to make that assumption?

Yea, he can definitely be an all-star modern day PG, in the Ja/Westbrook/D Rose/Mitchell mode. He's got the physical tools to blow by his man and force help every time he has the ball in his hands, and he can contort his body around help defenders at the rim very similarly to Ja. Athletic profile is half the battle with projecting these guys. You are the one who brought up the college stat argument.

Yeah I actually agree downhill guards like Ivey don't need to make those high level reads. The stress he'll put on defense will allow him to make simple drive and kick passes. I can definitely see him as a 6 assist guy in the league possibly more if he really blows up.

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[mattao313]

im confused - are u comparing him to Ja or Westbrook?

and are you suggesting that Jaden Ivey is going to turn into a full-blown all-star PG in the league because Westbrook did it? based on what exactly? what discernable PG skills does Ivey have right now for you to make that assumption?

Yea, he can definitely be an all-star modern day PG, in the Ja/Westbrook/D Rose/Mitchell mode. He's got the physical tools to blow by his man and force help every time he has the ball in his hands, and he can contort his body around help defenders at the rim very similarly to Ja. Athletic profile is half the battle with projecting these guys. You are the one who brought up the college stat argument.

The problem is there is nothing to really suggest that Ivey is comparable to those players in any way aside from being athletic.

Ivey was older than all those guys coming out of college and had significantly worse assist and steal rates than all of them. Westbrook also shared point guard duties with Collison. Ivey worked in a perfect system that complimented his skill set.

Ivey just has a lot to work on and there are some concerns with his inability to pass, defend and his overall feel for the game.

I don't see the perfect system he played in Purdue. They definitely had a slow post centric offense. Not something Id want for my explosive downhill guard.

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[Los_29]

Yea, he can definitely be an all-star modern day PG, in the Ja/Westbrook/D Rose/Mitchell mode. He's got the physical tools to blow by his man and force help every time he has the ball in his hands, and he can contort his body around help defenders at the rim very similarly to Ja. Athletic profile is half the battle with projecting these guys. You are the one who brought up the college stat argument.

The problem is there is nothing to really suggest that Ivey is comparable to those players in any way aside from being athletic.

Ivey was older than all those guys coming out of college and had significantly worse assist and steal rates than all of them. Westbrook also shared point guard duties with Collison. Ivey worked in a perfect system that complimented his skill set.

Ivey just has a lot to work on and there are some concerns with his inability to pass, defend and his overall feel for the game.

I don't see the perfect system he played in Purdue. They definitely had a slow post centric offense. Not something Id want for my explosive downhill guard.

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Didn’t Purdue have a ton of shooters?

[clyde21]

im confused - are u comparing him to Ja or Westbrook?

and are you suggesting that Jaden Ivey is going to turn into a full-blown all-star PG in the league because Westbrook did it? based on what exactly? what discernable PG skills does Ivey have right now for you to make that assumption?

Yea, he can definitely be an all-star modern day PG, in the Ja/Westbrook/D Rose/Mitchell mode. He's got the physical tools to blow by his man and force help every time he has the ball in his hands, and he can contort his body around help defenders at the rim very similarly to Ja. Athletic profile is half the battle with projecting these guys. You are the one who brought up the college stat argument.

Yeah I actually agree downhill guards like Ivey don't need to make those high level reads. The stress he'll put on defense will allow him to make simple drive and kick passes. I can definitely see him as a 6 assist guy in the league possibly more if he really blows up.

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cool, he can line up useless assist numbers then without actually being a lead guard. let me know the last time that model actually worked for a team to win a chip.

the closest we've seen to this is Russ, and he's not exactly a winning player. if that's why you want to draft Ivey, by all means.

[Big J]

Yea, he can definitely be an all-star modern day PG, in the Ja/Westbrook/D Rose/Mitchell mode. He's got the physical tools to blow by his man and force help every time he has the ball in his hands, and he can contort his body around help defenders at the rim very similarly to Ja. Athletic profile is half the battle with projecting these guys. You are the one who brought up the college stat argument.

Yeah I actually agree downhill guards like Ivey don't need to make those high level reads. The stress he'll put on defense will allow him to make simple drive and kick passes. I can definitely see him as a 6 assist guy in the league possibly more if he really blows up.

Sent from my 5087Z using RealGM mobile app

cool, he can line up useless assist numbers then without actually being a lead guard. let me know the last time that model actually worked for a team to win a chip.

the closest we've seen to this is Russ, and he's not exactly a winning player. if that's why you want to draft Ivey, by all means.

D Wade won a few.

[mattao313]

Yeah I actually agree downhill guards like Ivey don't need to make those high level reads. The stress he'll put on defense will allow him to make simple drive and kick passes. I can definitely see him as a 6 assist guy in the league possibly more if he really blows up.

Sent from my 5087Z using RealGM mobile app

cool, he can line up useless assist numbers then without actually being a lead guard. let me know the last time that model actually worked for a team to win a chip.

the closest we've seen to this is Russ, and he's not exactly a winning player. if that's why you want to draft Ivey, by all means.

D Wade won a few.

Tony Parker too

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[NatP4]

So like..... besides the hair and the flashy athleticism in the YouTube highlights, why is Ivey an elite top 4 level future all star prospect, and the next Ja Morant?

I wanna hear an actual argument

[clyde21]

cool, he can line up useless assist numbers then without actually being a lead guard. let me know the last time that model actually worked for a team to win a chip.

the closest we've seen to this is Russ, and he's not exactly a winning player. if that's why you want to draft Ivey, by all means.

D Wade won a few.

Tony Parker too

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D Wade was never a lead guard

and Tony Parker was a legit PG lol.

terrible examples. signs of someone reaching.

[clyde21]

So like..... besides the hair and the flashy athleticism in the YouTube highlights, why is Ivey an elite top 4 level future all star prospect, and the next Ja Morant?

I wanna hear an actual argument

he can run fast?

[Big J]

D Wade won a few.

Tony Parker too

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D Wade was never a lead guard

and Tony Parker was a legit PG lol.

terrible examples. signs of someone reaching.

…then Ivey can be employed the same way that those guys were whether he’s considered a “lead guard” or not.

[clyde21]

Tony Parker too

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D Wade was never a lead guard

and Tony Parker was a legit PG lol.

terrible examples. signs of someone reaching.

…then Ivey can be employed the same way that those guys were whether he’s considered a “lead guard” or not.

if he's in the D Wayne role that's not a lead guard or PG. maybe you don't understand what these terms mean?

[clyde21]

you're jumping thru ridiculous hoops just to justify your Ja comp. just admit it was bad comp and move on. it's not that hard.

[NatP4]

Westbrook is really the only comparison that makes some sense, and even that is such a ridiculously unique and rare example. Even still, Westbrook had twice as many steals, more assists, less turnovers, and was a better defender, and almost a full year younger. He also didn’t play on a team loaded with 40% 3pt shooters, the best playmaking big in the country, and a top 5 ranked offense overall.

If you wanna just do the YouTube highlights/eye test thing, Westbrook is significantly more explosive and quick twitch.

I swear Ivey has become one of the most overhyped prospects of all time.

[clyde21]

Westbrook is really the only comparison that makes some sense, and even that is such a ridiculously unique and rare example. Even still, Westbrook had twice as many steals, more assists, less turnovers, and was a better defender, and almost a full year younger. He also didn’t play on a team loaded with 40% 3pt shooters, the best playmaking big in the country, and a top 5 ranked offense overall.

If you wanna just do the YouTube highlights/eye test thing, Westbrook is significantly more explosive and quick twitch.

I swear Ivey has become one of the most overhyped prospects of all time.

Russ comps are impossible to make...you can't project Russ motor onto anyone else...that's half his game

the cleanest comp is Donovan Mitchell.

[NatP4]

When I say makes sense, I meant for the “Ivey is a future superstar” crowd.

In no way do I believe Ivey is the next Russ. There will never be another Russ.

I like the Collin Sexton comparison, or a discount Donavan Mitchell. Mitchell was an elite defender in college, which has translated to still not being very good on that end in the NBA. Ivey is flat out awful on that end as a 20 year old sophomore. He’s going to be an averageish starting PG, not much more.

[Big J]

Westbrook is really the only comparison that makes some sense, and even that is such a ridiculously unique and rare example. Even still, Westbrook had twice as many steals, more assists, less turnovers, and was a better defender, and almost a full year younger. He also didn’t play on a team loaded with 40% 3pt shooters, the best playmaking big in the country, and a top 5 ranked offense overall.

If you wanna just do the YouTube highlights/eye test thing, Westbrook is significantly more explosive and quick twitch.

I swear Ivey has become one of the most overhyped prospects of all time.

Russ comps are impossible to make...you can't project Russ motor onto anyone else...that's half his game

the cleanest comp is Donovan Mitchell.

Ivey is a better athlete than Mitchell. That’s where he’s closer to Ja. He is more explosive and better at contorting his body around guys for layups.