2025 NBA Draft Class

[NO-KG-AI]

Ace is 6'7.5" in socks, same as Paul George. He's also still 18. He's fine.

I mean yea, it’s fine. But it’s far from 6’10. Nobody said it wasn’t fine, we just said it’s not special, and it’s not what he was initially sold as lol.

Paul George was the 10th pick, and I don’t think anyone is really saying it’s dropping Ace out of the top 10 for them.

just stop. nobody thought Ace was 6'10 barefoot - so they oversold him by an inch. 6'9" with a 7'1" ws for a SG/SF is elite size/length. and paul george has elite size and length for a wing. george was the 10th pick because he played at fresno and had some other things - it had nothing to do with his size/length, which again, like Ace is elite.

but seriously, this narrative that Ace was supposed to be 6'10" and measured at 6'7.5 needs to stop. Not one human alive - unless they are absolute morons thought Ace Bailey was 6'11.5" in shoes (which what he'd be if he were 6'10" barefoot). dude went from 6'10" to 6'9". A 6'9" SG. yeah, i'll take that.

I don’t know why it makes y’all feel so much better to call someone 1.5 inches taller than they are and move them down to a smaller position lmao. He’s a 6’7.5 forward. He’s not a 6’9 or 6’10 anything.

[SeattleJazzFan]

I mean yea, it’s fine. But it’s far from 6’10. Nobody said it wasn’t fine, we just said it’s not special, and it’s not what he was initially sold as lol.

Paul George was the 10th pick, and I don’t think anyone is really saying it’s dropping Ace out of the top 10 for them.

just stop. nobody thought Ace was 6'10 barefoot - so they oversold him by an inch. 6'9" with a 7'1" ws for a SG/SF is elite size/length. and paul george has elite size and length for a wing. george was the 10th pick because he played at fresno and had some other things - it had nothing to do with his size/length, which again, like Ace is elite.

but seriously, this narrative that Ace was supposed to be 6'10" and measured at 6'7.5 needs to stop. Not one human alive - unless they are absolute morons thought Ace Bailey was 6'11.5" in shoes (which what he'd be if he were 6'10" barefoot). dude went from 6'10" to 6'9". A 6'9" SG. yeah, i'll take that.

I don’t know why it makes y’all feel so much better to call someone 1.5 inches taller than they are and move them down to a smaller position lmao. He’s a 6’7.5 forward. He’s not a 6’9 or 6’10 anything.

guys play in shoes. he measured at 6'9" in shoes.

[The-Power]

6'9" with a 7'1" ws for a SG/SF is elite size/length.

A 6'9" SG. yeah, i'll take that.

There's no world in which Bailey is a SG.

ha. have you ever seen him play basketball? of course he is. i mean, to be completely clear, very few players these days are just SGs or SFs - he's a classic 2/3 wing. elite positional length regardless of how you slice it.

Yes, thank you, I have seen him play. Have you? Or have you followed the NBA over the past decade+? (See, I can also ask condescending questions). He's a 3/4, and perhaps even more 4 than 3. He's not a 2. He doesn't have the skills or the fluidity to be a Guard in the NBA, and his advantages on offense are much more pronounced when he is not defended by quicker Guards, too. What's the thing with highly ranked Forwards constantly being touted as Guards?

[NO-KG-AI]

just stop. nobody thought Ace was 6'10 barefoot - so they oversold him by an inch. 6'9" with a 7'1" ws for a SG/SF is elite size/length. and paul george has elite size and length for a wing. george was the 10th pick because he played at fresno and had some other things - it had nothing to do with his size/length, which again, like Ace is elite.

but seriously, this narrative that Ace was supposed to be 6'10" and measured at 6'7.5 needs to stop. Not one human alive - unless they are absolute morons thought Ace Bailey was 6'11.5" in shoes (which what he'd be if he were 6'10" barefoot). dude went from 6'10" to 6'9". A 6'9" SG. yeah, i'll take that.

I don’t know why it makes y’all feel so much better to call someone 1.5 inches taller than they are and move them down to a smaller position lmao. He’s a 6’7.5 forward. He’s not a 6’9 or 6’10 anything.

guys play in shoes. he measured at 6'9" in shoes.

Yea and Hockey players play in skates. He’s 6’9 in the same world that Chris Paul is 6’1.5

[NO-KG-AI]

There's no world in which Bailey is a SG.

ha. have you ever seen him play basketball? of course he is. i mean, to be completely clear, very few players these days are just SGs or SFs - he's a classic 2/3 wing. elite positional length regardless of how you slice it.

Yes, thank you, I have seen him play. Have you? Or have you followed the NBA over the past decade+? (See, I can also ask condescending questions). He's a 3/4, and perhaps even more 4 than 3. He's not a 2. He doesn't have the skills or the fluidity to be a Guard in the NBA, and his advantages on offense are much more pronounced when he is not defended by quicker Guards, too. What's the thing with highly ranked Forwards constantly being touted as Guards?

Because 6’7-6’8 forwards are a dime a dozen and getting a 6’10 guard makes your player sound more generational. It’s the same reason beat writers report players growing 3 inches every rookie year, fans eat it up.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Fears being rated so highly by NBA scouts is a little surprising.

Yeah, his shake is unreal, but he needs to be an elite shooter to be valuable since he's small and not an great playmaker.

[Chuck Everett]

Am I crazy to think that the Spurs might actually consider taking VJ Edgecombe at #2 over Dylan Harper? With Victor wanting to be basically be a taller Durant, could they value VJ's ability to get downhill and play with Castle? It's just another fleeting thought I had. Great NBA teams usually have more than one guy who can get to the basket off the bounce. I'd include Fox, but he's a horrendous finisher around the rim, thus he prefers to stop near the free throw line.

[Chi town]

Fears being rated so highly by NBA scouts is a little surprising.

Yeah, his shake is unreal, but he needs to be an elite shooter to be valuable since he's small and not an great playmaker.

Who is saying that?

I’ve always thought Fears has top 5 tale t with that handle, FT rate, and young age.

[clyde21]

I do wish Bailey came in at 6-8 barefoot but he might still be growing, wouldn't be surprised if another .5 of an inch gets added on by his sophomore season

6-8 barefoot is a real threshold

[76ciology]

ha. have you ever seen him play basketball? of course he is. i mean, to be completely clear, very few players these days are just SGs or SFs - he's a classic 2/3 wing. elite positional length regardless of how you slice it.

Yes, thank you, I have seen him play. Have you? Or have you followed the NBA over the past decade+? (See, I can also ask condescending questions). He's a 3/4, and perhaps even more 4 than 3. He's not a 2. He doesn't have the skills or the fluidity to be a Guard in the NBA, and his advantages on offense are much more pronounced when he is not defended by quicker Guards, too. What's the thing with highly ranked Forwards constantly being touted as Guards?

Because 6’7-6’8 forwards are a dime a dozen and getting a 6’10 guard makes your player sound more generational. It’s the same reason beat writers report players growing 3 inches every rookie year, fans eat it up.

Yeah, and he moves more like a power forward than a wing. But it’s a tough sell for a PF prospect when he’s only 6’7”. It’s also kind of a “white lie” because his standing reach is 8’11”, so you could argue the height isn’t a big deal once you factor that in, but still, 6’7” for a modern 4 that isn’t as skilled as a 3 raises questions.

[SNPA]

Yes, thank you, I have seen him play. Have you? Or have you followed the NBA over the past decade+? (See, I can also ask condescending questions). He's a 3/4, and perhaps even more 4 than 3. He's not a 2. He doesn't have the skills or the fluidity to be a Guard in the NBA, and his advantages on offense are much more pronounced when he is not defended by quicker Guards, too. What's the thing with highly ranked Forwards constantly being touted as Guards?

Because 6’7-6’8 forwards are a dime a dozen and getting a 6’10 guard makes your player sound more generational. It’s the same reason beat writers report players growing 3 inches every rookie year, fans eat it up.

Yeah, and he moves more like a power forward than a wing. But it’s a tough sell for a PF prospect when he’s only 6’7”. It’s also kind of a “white lie” because his standing reach is 8’11”, so you could argue the height isn’t a big deal once you factor that in, but still, 6’7” for a modern 4 that isn’t as skilled as a 3 raises questions.

This is it. He has different value as a wing vs a PF.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Yes, thank you, I have seen him play. Have you? Or have you followed the NBA over the past decade+? (See, I can also ask condescending questions). He's a 3/4, and perhaps even more 4 than 3. He's not a 2. He doesn't have the skills or the fluidity to be a Guard in the NBA, and his advantages on offense are much more pronounced when he is not defended by quicker Guards, too. What's the thing with highly ranked Forwards constantly being touted as Guards?

Because 6’7-6’8 forwards are a dime a dozen and getting a 6’10 guard makes your player sound more generational. It’s the same reason beat writers report players growing 3 inches every rookie year, fans eat it up.

Yeah, and he moves more like a power forward than a wing. But it’s a tough sell for a PF prospect when he’s only 6’7”. It’s also kind of a “white lie” because his standing reach is 8’11”, so you could argue the height isn’t a big deal once you factor that in, but still, 6’7” for a modern 4 that isn’t as skilled as a 3 raises questions.

I think he's very similar to Brandon Miller and Risacher and will play essentially the same role early on which is a mostly C&S wing, likely at the 4 but can defend the 3 as well not asked to do much else. With all three of these guys there's enough talent that if you squint your eyes you could see them developing the ball skills to eventually be on-ball more. This is why they're so deservedly highly rated and go high in drafts. Bailey will hit open jumpers, run the floor, defend and drive and finish on aggressive closeouts. That's all anyone should be expecting from him for the first couple of seasons. Hopefully he'll improve his handle and have more chances to go one on one after awhile. Hopefully after that, he'll develop the ability to make plays for others.

[NO-KG-AI]

Because 6’7-6’8 forwards are a dime a dozen and getting a 6’10 guard makes your player sound more generational. It’s the same reason beat writers report players growing 3 inches every rookie year, fans eat it up.

Yeah, and he moves more like a power forward than a wing. But it’s a tough sell for a PF prospect when he’s only 6’7”. It’s also kind of a “white lie” because his standing reach is 8’11”, so you could argue the height isn’t a big deal once you factor that in, but still, 6’7” for a modern 4 that isn’t as skilled as a 3 raises questions.

I think he's very similar to Brandon Miller and Risacher and will play essentially the same role early on which is a mostly C&S wing, likely at the 4 but can defend the 3 as well not asked to do much else. With all three of these guys there's enough talent that if you squint your eyes you could see them developing the ball skills to eventually be on-ball more. This is why they're so deservedly highly rated and go high in drafts. Bailey will hit open jumpers, run the floor, defend and drive and finish on aggressive closeouts. That's all anyone should be expecting from him for the first couple of seasons. Hopefully he'll improve his handle and have more chances to go one on one after awhile. Hopefully after that, he'll develop the ability to make plays for others.

I agree with all of this. I think creative ball handling and playmaking is one of those things that is hardest to develop for players already in the league, but it’s not unprecedented either. It’s the reason I’m always a little cautious with this archetype if the ball handling isn’t top tier.

But honestly with guys like this, if they have top notch handles and passing, they are lock #1 kinda guys lol.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think Ace came into the year with KD lite hype but see him no pretty clearly as a guy on par with Brandon Miller - if not a little worse even as a prospect. Which isnt a bad thing for the most part, Brandon is a quality player with alot to like, even coming off a sophomore shooting slump.

I think you still take Ace 3 and simply bet on the size he has rather than 'settle' for Johnson or VJ.

[Covi_Marsh]

Y’all gonna be shocked when yall find out how tall Cooper Flagg measured at lol

[FarBeyondDriven]

Y’all gonna be shocked when yall find out how tall Cooper Flagg measured at lol

Flagg has already proved he has elite BBIQ and he can initiate the offense either for himself or others which are SF skills/traits Bailey lacks which I believe is why people have Bailey pegged as an off-ball 4 (sometimes 3 depending on matchups) initially whereas Flagg can easily play the 3 and 4. But there's reason to believe Bailey can get there and might have shown those things already had he gone to a different team which is why he's so highly ranked.

[JMAC3]

The way combine measurements get looked at don't make sense the majority of the time.

A shooting guard can measure 6-4 with a 6-7 wingspan and 8-5 standing reach and we will be happy with the measurement
but we will be unhappy if a point guard measures 6-6 with 6-5.5 wingspan and a 8-6 standing reach.

[FarBeyondDriven]

The way combine measurements get looked at don't make sense the majority of the time.

A shooting guard can measure 6-4 with a 6-7 wingspan and 8-5 standing reach and we will be happy with the measurement
but we will be unhappy if a point guard measures 6-6 with 6-5.5 wingspan and a 8-6 standing reach.

that's because positions have different heights/wingspans associated with them. It's more important for a SG to have better size and wingspan because the guys he'll be trying to defend and score against have that as well. A PG with height is better able to see over other point guards covering him and since nobody expects PGs to defend the wingspan isn't as important as it is for SGs. Or at least, that's how it makes sense to me.

[codydaze]

Am I crazy to think that the Spurs might actually consider taking VJ Edgecombe at #2 over Dylan Harper? With Victor wanting to be basically be a taller Durant, could they value VJ's ability to get downhill and play with Castle? It's just another fleeting thought I had. Great NBA teams usually have more than one guy who can get to the basket off the bounce. I'd include Fox, but he's a horrendous finisher around the rim, thus he prefers to stop near the free throw line.

Fox is actually a very good finisher at the rim though? 66% in the Restricted Area and 53% in Non-RA Paint shots this season. In the top 10 of attempts per game in Non-RA paint shots as well, 2nd only to Jokic in percentage in that group. He's certainly in the upper echelon of guards at finishing, his Restricted Area percentage is better than guys like Brunson, Ja, Ant, Donovan Mitchell, Cade and Dame as well.

[FrodoBaggins]

Watching some Cooper Flagg film, and I don't know why I didn't think of this comparision before. Anyone else see a ton of Jimmy Butler in his game?

Cooper is slightly longer, and more athletic, but he approaches the game awfully similar to Jimmy.

Ice Man has been calling that comparison for several months now. It's my favorite, too—a 1.75" taller, better-shooting Jimmy Butler with 4.5" more wingspan and 5.5" more standing reach.