All Things Luka Doncic

[narcolepsy]

Doncic had plenty of games like this last year. The stats are somewhat irrelevant to me at this point, in terms of where his game is progressing. I want to see actual improvements, and I'm not seeing it yet.

Are you saying you cant see improvement if you compare his play with a year ago?

[UcanUwill]

Random question, but does Euroleague.net livescores work to anyone? I can see play by play, graphics, everything, but when I click on boxscore, all I see is disgusting ads. They really messed up with new design in general.

[SportsGuy8]

If Spanoulis is best player in Europe, its pretty sad then. I really have more faith in Euro basketball.

He's not, Mirotic12 is simply being ridiculous again.

Spanoulis shot well under 40% from the field last year, under 30% from 3pt. He shot even worse the year before. But Mirotic12 takes a small sample of last year's playoffs, along with a couple highlights, to try arguing that he's still the best ... sigh.

Doncic had plenty of games like this last year. The stats are somewhat irrelevant to me at this point, in terms of where his game is progressing. I want to see actual improvements, and I'm not seeing it yet.

So stats are "somewhat irrelevant" to you, yet after Doncic's first game after coming back to Real, while still having a clearly injured ankle while being completely emotionally drained after the success of his life, you immediately wrote this:

Doncic is now back to playing at a more serious level of European basketball than EuroBasket, which is a watered down poor man's version of good European club basketball.

In the Spanish Supercup, Real Madrid (Doncic's team) lost to Gran Canaria (a Spanish team that plays in Europe's 2nd level league, the EuroCup), 73 to 64, and they were eliminated from the tournament.

Doncic had 6 points, 4 rebounds, and 1 assist in the game, in 23 minutes played. He was 1 for 6 from the field, and 1 for 5 from 3 point range.

http://www.acb.com/fichas/SCOPA18002.php

And then you accuse others for not being objective when they don't see your absolute truths?

[Derento]

I am very happy he added a elbow jumper to complement his up & under.
If he could get some more lift their it could be extremely deadly combined with his height.
CP3,CJ Mcollum,Chris Mullin,Parker many others have dominated with that shot.

[Mirotic12]

@Mirotic
Then you might be the only one who doesnt see the improvements. This is nothing else than bias on your part. If you cant see the improvements and versatility, you are blind or a hater. There is absolutely no other option.

We have been saying last year he needs to penetrate more. He did.
We said he needs to use mid range jumper more. He does.
Better post up game. You could see it, he never looked that good in a post up in 80 games last season.
Leadership. Check
He is not as dependent on his stepback 3 as last season anymore and he is much more athletic, more explosive and faster than last season. His handles improved greatly, when have you seen him crossing over defenders last season like he did yesterday?

Now tel me how you can not see any improvement...

The other coach's tactics were horrible, and he was playing against players that didn't even try on defense. It's also 1 game, and he played like this plenty last season. He's still very inconsistent. From game to game, he is totally average in one game, then very good in the next.

No, he has not improved from where he was last season. But he has shown by now more than enough that he without question is the #1 overall pick.

As for bias, clearly, I'm the one trying to be totally objective here. The whole you can't question or criticize anything related to Doncic or you are a "hater" crowd, yeah. There is bias here, but it's not coming from me. Doncic is a top 5 player in EuroLeague, but he's not the god that so many people here are pretending he is. So don't put the bias word on me. I'm not the one being biased.

He's not, Mirotic12 is simply being ridiculous again.

Spanoulis shot well under 40% from the field last year, under 30% from 3pt. He shot even worse the year before. But Mirotic12 takes a small sample of last year's playoffs, along with a couple highlights, to try arguing that he's still the best ... sigh.

No need to make up fake stats.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=JUO&seasoncode=E2016

Spanoulis shot 40% overall from the field last year. He shot 48% on 2 point shots, and 32% on 3 point shots, with 1.6 made 3s a game.

So those stats you are claiming are definitely wrong. And he is always given more defensive focus (by about 2 times) than any other player in Europe. Teodosic was second in defensive attention, and he never got anywhere near the focus of the defense as Spanoulis.

And many teams put 6'8" to 6'10" with over 7 feet wingspan players, that are also really good athletes, on Spanoulis, and make him try to shoot over that. I don't see any other guards in EuroLeague ever have that assignment on them on defense.

Huertel gets pretty good defensive focus on screen roll - Spanoulis gets its in all situations. Only very occasionally, does he get a single coverage, against say a team that has an elite defensive perimeter player.

Plus, he always has to take all the bail out shots, all the tough shots, and all the shots at the end of the shot clock, quarter, half, and game for his team...

Anyway, one of the 2 biggest European basketball sports sites (and their numerous contributing journalists), disagrees big time with what you guys are claiming here.

https://www.sportando.com/en/cups/euroleague/249595/top100-euroleague-players-100-1.html#refresh_ce

Top 100 EuroLeague Players: 100-1

#2 VASSILIS SPANOULIS (PG/SG, OLYMPIACOS)
Still one of top scorer in the league, he's definitely the most clutch player in Europe in recent years.
He's always able to elevate his game during the playoffs and the Final Four.

How is Spanoulis even debated here?

He barely shoots over .30% from the field.. guy is washed up and was never even the best PG in Europe to begin with.. atleast not the consensus 1.

As already proven above in this post, you are simply making up completely untrue and totally fake stats. As to the never even been considered a top point guard...

7 times in All-EuroLeague team (most ever in Europe, even counting all the other previous forms of the award back to the 1960s - so don't give me that "NBA players in the 80s and 90s shtick).

3 times EuroLeague Final Four MVP (tied with Kukoc for most ever), and most of those "NBA players" of 80s and 90s were all playing many years during that time, so again drop the shtick on that.

Second all time in EuroLeague in points scored and assists, for modern EuroLeague (since 2000), and counting all the games also since 1958....and should realistically be #1 all time in assists this year, and #1 all time in points next year.

Yes, very clearly and obviously, at no time ever was Spanoulis considered even a top point guard....


The way you guys are talking, you clearly prove you have never seen a EuroLeague game. It makes me extremely suspicious also of all your posts related to Doncic. Because no way can you guys be watching any actual games with some of these comments.

[XTraderXL]

Ok, he didnt improve his game. The same player as last year. I guess we are all blind, you are the one who sees the light.

And I said about 2 weeks ago, he will get more minutes in EL than ACB and he will also have better stats in Euroleague. And this is exactly whats going on. The reason is Real is so much better than the rest of ACB that he just doesnt have to play and do as much. You could see in the few ACB games this year he is not as agressive on offense and that Campazzo gets his minutes and touches. Doncic is letting everyone else play because thats enough. In Euroleague Campazzo is basically a non factor so Luka has to do more for Real to win. This was easily predictable so I dont know where you are getting that he is inconsitent. Well, if you expect him to score 27 per game but he scores 15 then yeah, he is inconsistent.

He is easily the best player on the team, he is the one where everything starts. Before the season you were saying that Campazzo will be the PG but you can see who plays the position when games are tight and who gets the ball at the end of shot clock and end of quarters. He is a much better player than he was last year and he has shown it at Eurobasket and is showing it in EL as well. There is no debate about it, this is a fact.

[burek3]

As for bias, clearly, I'm the one trying to be totally objective here.

https://www.sportando.com/en/cups/euroleague/249595/top100-euroleague-players-100-1.html#refresh_ce

Yeah, no.

[No-Man]

Sportando is a joke, heck eurohoops is a joke, those top100 rankings are awful.

V-Span is still useful and an icon but he ain't close to be a top10 player in Euroleague at least his current self.

[Goon]

Doncic must be the luckiest player in the world. Opposition coach gets every decision possible wrong and plays players that are the worst defenders in whole Europe and also don't even try on defense on top of it. This is bad on Luka, he should "do a Dražen" and drop 100 on them, otherwise, his game is not worth mentioning.

[CptCrunch]

Luka Dončić is 18 years old. Please raise your hand if you are younger. Thanks.

[Apollo64]

This thread shouldn't be about Spanoulis.

[SportsGuy8]

He's not, Mirotic12 is simply being ridiculous again.

Spanoulis shot well under 40% from the field last year, under 30% from 3pt. He shot even worse the year before. But Mirotic12 takes a small sample of last year's playoffs, along with a couple highlights, to try arguing that he's still the best ... sigh.

No need to make up fake stats.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=JUO&seasoncode=E2016

Spanoulis shot 40% overall from the field last year. He shot 48% on 2 point shots, and 32% on 3 point shots, with 1.6 made 3s a game.

So those stats you are claiming are definitely wrong.

Actually, that amounts to 39.58%. I usually wouldn't nitpick about this, however, since you're such a GIANT nit-picker here, even arguing with someone that he was wrong for saying Doncic was going to average 20 minutes per game because he ended averaging 19.9 (!?!) ... it's only fair you get treated with the same standards. So you're clearly WRONG!

Besides, Spanoulis shot much worse in Greece, low 30s, bringing his total season FG% well under 40 and 3PT% well under 30. It's interesting how you conveniently left that out.

[DaddyCool19]

Wasn't he even worse the year before in the Euroleague? His shooting numbers were like this 31,8% FG and 26% 3P for the 2015/2016 season.

I think from now on no one should respond to mirotic, as he is clearly trolling and is way to biased to post something normal.

[GimmeDat]

To what extent do people think his facilitating will translate to the NBA?

He obviously has great instincts/feel/execution as a passer. I'm not sure he's a 'PG' per se, but he can definitely run your offense from the wing.

I ask the question because I'm looking at Valentine, who we drafted in 2016. In college he averaged 7.8 assists per game his final season. Not a great athlete but a really good shooter and a great passer with a strong feel for the game.

In the NBA, he's basically just a spot up shooter. He can't 'play PG' because he can't penetrate and create lanes/opportunities to make passes.

Doncic is a more well rounded scorer, is quicker in the open court and has better handles than Valentine, but I do think his limitations beg the question of how transferrable his playmaking is against NBA athletes.

You can see what Valentine was like as a passer in college here. When he went to his stint in the D-League he immediately turned in to that guy again as well.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Thoughts on how these 2 situations compare?

[SportsGuy8]

I think Valentine might still surprise some people, I wouldn't give up on him just yet. He needs more opportunities to adjust to the game, it's just way too easy to go up against NCAA defensive "schemes", and more opportunities to pick his spots. Doncic, on the other hand, has to deal with defenders that, while perhaps not as athletic as their NBA counterparts, play more physical than he's ever going to go up against in the NBA, even the playoffs (simply because of the rules).

This is still a legit concern, though. While I don't think it's possible for Doncic to struggle as much, eventually it's going to come down to how he's used. If he's going to be like the 3rd ball handler on the team, it's highly unlikely he ends up being a star, just a good starter. He's not going to be able to pick his spots and could end up struggling in a similar fashion as Valentine (just not as much). Sure Doncic's extremely well-rounded and is going to get things done either way, simply by doing the little things, and while he's getting underrated athletically, he's still not athletic enough do to that much offensively unless he has the ball to create and pick his spots, especially from the P'n'R.

P.s.: Being able to pick your spots is really important. Because if you aren't able to do that, you try forcing things on those rare occasions when you can actually do your thing, the thing that you're good at, which then often ends badly.

[The-Power]

Doncic with 9 Points (4-6 FG), 3 Rebounds and 5 Assists in 12 Minutes at halftime against Valencia. Had a couple of great passes and two good lay-ups.

[UcanUwill]

To what extent do people think his facilitating will translate to the NBA?

He obviously has great instincts/feel/execution as a passer. I'm not sure he's a 'PG' per se, but he can definitely run your offense from the wing.

I ask the question because I'm looking at Valentine, who we drafted in 2016. In college he averaged 7.8 assists per game his final season. Not a great athlete but a really good shooter and a great passer with a strong feel for the game.

In the NBA, he's basically just a spot up shooter. He can't 'play PG' because he can't penetrate and create lanes/opportunities to make passes.

Doncic is a more well rounded scorer, is quicker in the open court and has better handles than Valentine, but I do think his limitations beg the question of how transferrable his playmaking is against NBA athletes.

You can see what Valentine was like as a passer in college here. When he went to his stint in the D-League he immediately turned in to that guy again as well.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Thoughts on how these 2 situations compare?

Sometimes, It comes down just to how good you are overall. For example Nemanja Bjelica was also a good facilitator in Europe, but in the NBA it was very easy to predict that hes gonna be mostly just off ball player, because he is just not that great overall, no one is giving him the ball to play make since there are better players to do so. I think Doncic should translate well, because he is total package player, he is good enough to command the ball and develop that way.

[reanimator]

When looking at why foreign perimeter players don't often fare well transitioning to the NBA, we don't look at spacing enough not just the gap in quick twitch athleticism and length.

NCAA prospects at schools like UK, Arizona or Kansas are playing on teams with limited shooting and get a "spacing bump" when they transition to the league.

Its easier to play in space and its often a criticism brought against my team Michigan because of how efficient Beilein is in optimizing spacing: https://patternofbasketball.blogspot.com/2014/12/john-beilein.html

If we are going to boast about the "physicality" Doncic plays against then we need to acknowledge the spacing he plays in.

Like the postup and the pullup in the footage above....hope he can continue to build on that.

[Juree93]

16 points (7/14), 10 assists, 7 rebounds is final tally in win against Valencia in ACB league.

[SportsGuy8]

He's truly starting to dominate. Hopefully this continues.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter