Bismack Biyombo

BROWN · Post #141 » by **BROWN** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:17 am

Makes sense, but I'm just saying as far as Biyombo goes, in a weak draft class were players are staying back... He can get to a top 3-5 pick if he has good workouts against the Competetion

DirtyDez · Post #142 » by **DirtyDez** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:08 am

Is he the best international player in this draft?

Nothingface · Post #143 » by **Nothingface** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:42 pm

DirtyDez wrote:Is he the best international player in this draft?

No. Maybe 5th or so.

Post #144 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:24 pm

^ If GMs really think he is Ben Wallace, then he should go number one overall. The impact Wallace had in hius prime is really underrated. He was a superstar player. The common fan doesn't buy that defense guys can be superstars but they absolutely can. I haven't seen enough of him to make a comment one way or the other, but IMO a Prime Ben Wallace in this draft should be the number one pick overall.

droponov · Post #145 » by **droponov** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:14 pm

Projecting Biyombo as Ben Wallace is akin to projecting Motiejunas as Dirk. Possible, but highly unlikely. Wallace had terrific defensive instincts that very few players in the history of the game matched. Biyombo isn't as quick-footed and dynamic as Ben Wallace in his prime either.

Biyombo left his club and is now in Africa... bad decision, he'd be in better shape if he was playing right now and he'd keep progressing as a player.

Point-God · Post #146 » by **Point-God** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:57 pm

droponov wrote:
Biyombo left his club and is now in Africa... bad decision, he'd be in better shape if he was playing right now and he'd keep progressing as a player.

His club didn't fulfill contractual obligations like, paying him...

If he did go back home, that's good. No need risking injury playing for an organization that isn't cutting you checks. That would actually be too much like him playing in the NCAA. :lol:

droponov · Post #147 » by **droponov** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:48 pm

Point-God wrote:
droponov wrote:
Biyombo left his club and is now in Africa... bad decision, he'd be in better shape if he was playing right now and he'd keep progressing as a player.

His club didn't fulfill contractual obligations like, paying him...

If he did go back home, that's good. No need risking injury playing for an organization that isn't cutting you checks. That would actually be too much like him playing in the NCAA.

Not true. They're just trying to lower the buyout clause.

Yes, it's like he was playing in the NCAA - that's my all point, he's giving up an advantage. He'd he in much better shape in the workouts.

Kirsten19 · Post #148 » by **Kirsten19** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:49 pm

I think Ibaka is a more realistic benchmark of Biyombo.

Biyombo may be a lot longer than Ben Wallace as he has a 7'7" wingspan and a 9'3" standing reach. That's amazing. But as someone had mentioned Ben Wallace defensive instinct in his prime is probably one of the very best in the history of this game.

I think if he turns out to be another Ibaka, teams should be content to draft him in the top 10.

He isn't tall as he's currently listed as 6'9". But looking at his official height measured in the Portland workout, he was measured exactly the same as Kevin Love (6'7.75" barefoot), but Love is listed as 6'10" in NBA. If Biyombo really is 6'10" in shoes, that makes a lot of differnce in his stock.
6'9" and 6'10" is somewhat a HUGE difference in NBA.

nahom1319 · Post #149 » by **nahom1319** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:27 pm

6'9 in shoes bro, hes 6'7.5 at last measure without shoes.

Point-God · Post #150 » by **Point-God** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:32 pm

Kirsten19 wrote:I think Ibaka is a more realistic benchmark of Biyombo.

Biyombo may be a lot longer than Ben Wallace as he has a 7'7" wingspan and a 9'3" standing reach. That's amazing. But as someone had mentioned Ben Wallace defensive instinct in his prime is probably one of the very best in the history of this game.

I think if he turns out to be another Ibaka, teams should be content to draft him in the top 10.

He isn't tall as he's currently listed as 6'9". But looking at his official height measured in the Portland workout, he was measured exactly the same as Kevin Love (6'7.75" barefoot), but Love is listed as 6'10" in NBA. If Biyombo really is 6'10" in shoes, that makes a lot of differnce in his stock.
6'9" and 6'10" is somewhat a HUGE difference in NBA.

To be honest, I think NBA teams have moved away from height and onto wingspan and standing reach. A 7'0" guy with a 9'2" standing reach isn't as desirable as a 6'8" guy with a 9'2" standing reach. The 6'8" guy will have a freakish wingspan. The taller guy will have the disadvantage of having a higher center of gravity and will probably run the floor like Gasol and Bynum instead of like Ben Wallace or Blake Griffin. It's getting old reading people critique height while also being astute enough to know about standing reach and wingspan.

closg00 · Post #151 » by **closg00** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:46 pm

Long arms and undersized, waaaay over-rated.

AQuintus · Post #152 » by **AQuintus** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:21 pm

closg00 wrote:Long arms and undersized, waaaay over-rated.

This is really ironic considering your sig line.

EvanZ · Post #153 » by **EvanZ** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:32 pm

Point-God wrote:To be honest, I think NBA teams have moved away from height and onto wingspan and standing reach. A 7'0" guy with a 9'2" standing reach isn't as desirable as a 6'8" guy with a 9'2" standing reach. The 6'8" guy will have a freakish wingspan. The taller guy will have the disadvantage of having a higher center of gravity and will probably run the floor like Gasol and Bynum instead of like Ben Wallace or Blake Griffin. It's getting old reading people critique height while also being astute enough to know about standing reach and wingspan.

Height is still important, because weight/strength scales with height more than wingspan/standing reach. Your 7' centers are historically in the 260-300 lb range, whereas guys who are 6'9" with "freakish" wingspans/standing reach are more likely 225-260 range.

Biyombo and Bynum might have the same standing reach, but Bynum has about 40-50 lbs on Biyombo. He certainly can't run as fast, but that weight/strength helps him be a force down low on both ends. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Biyombo fan. But he's not a "true" center by any means, in terms of historical norms.

sisibilio · Post #154 » by **sisibilio** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:59 pm

Moses Malone, Dwight Howard or Olajuwon weren't/isn't "true" centers then either?

Point-God · Post #155 » by **Point-God** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:36 am

sisibilio wrote:Moses Malone, Dwight Howard or Olajuwon weren't/isn't "true" centers then either?

Let's throw Bill Russell and Alonzo Mourning in there as well. Also, since the NBA implemented the 3 second defensive penalty, the defensive effectiveness of 7 footers has reduced because they can no longer camp out in the paint and block shots. Now shot blockers have to be more mobile to be worth anything. Also, most 7'0" guys don't have the strength and balance of Bynum and Shaq to out muscle most players they go against. Most 7'0" guys can get pushed around. Look at all of the 7'00" guys currently playing basketball, you can't look at them as a group and say "Boy a 6'8" guy with freakishly long arms has no chance against them battling in the paint."

List of 7 foot players currently playing
Brook Lopez, JaVale McGee, Aaron Gray, Spencer Hawes, Joakim Noah, Yi Jianlian, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bogut, Marcin Gortat, Chris Kaman, Tyson Chandler, Brendan Haywood, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Andrew Bynum, Marc Gasol

Real scary list... Kevin Love, Griffin and Howard are the best rebounders in the game, none of them are 7'00".

AQuintus · Post #156 » by **AQuintus** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:10 am

EvanZ wrote:Height is still important, because weight/strength scales with height more than wingspan/standing reach. Your 7' centers are historically in the 260-300 lb range, whereas guys who are 6'9" with "freakish" wingspans/standing reach are more likely 225-260 range.

So instead of mentioning his height as an issue as an indirect indictment on his weight, you should be mentioning his weight directly. Saying that he's "too short" as a way to say that he "weighs too little" is a little confusing.

Edit:

Point-God wrote:Brook Lopez, JaVale McGee, Aaron Gray, Spencer Hawes, Joakim Noah, Yi Jianlian, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bogut, Marcin Gortat, Chris Kaman, Tyson Chandler, Brendan Haywood, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Andrew Bynum, Marc Gasol

And most of these guys are in the 230-270 weight range.

EvanZ · Post #157 » by **EvanZ** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:36 am

AQuintus wrote:
So instead of mentioning his height as an issue as an indirect indictment on his weight, you should be mentioning his weight directly. Saying that he's "too short" as a way to say that he "weighs too little" is a little confusing.

No, not quite. A 6'7" guy who weighs 300 pounds is simply...fat. This is a matter of physiology. The main point is that the height does matter, because it tends to go with weight in what I would call an "athletically scalable" way.

Again, not to say I don't like Biyombo. I do. A lot. But ideally, his position would be PF. In today's NBA, pretty much any big who can actually play defense gets put at the center position. This is exactly what has happened, for example, with Kendrick Perkins, Ekpe Udoh, Chuck Hayes, Joel Anthony. The list goes on.

Kirsten19 · Post #158 » by **Kirsten19** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:49 am

Apparently Ben Wallace is on the list as well.

Now, listed at 6'9", I think it's not exactly undersize if Biyombo plays at PF. Most PFs in the league Re among 6'9" or 6'10". But as his measurements in Portland suggested, which is 6'7.75" barefoot, that's exactly the height of Kevin Love's (also 6'7.75" barefoot) who is officially listed at 6'10". That's not bad

this is a weak draft, I won't be surprised if Biyombo ends up being in the top 7. Teams like the Pistons and the Raptors may need someone like him

ballhawk1 · Post #159 » by **ballhawk1** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:55 am

I'd like to see more data. Before going to Spain I wonder how Biyombo performed in the Middle East??

EvanZ · Post #160 » by **EvanZ** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:15 am

Kirsten19 wrote:this is a weak draft, I won't be surprised if Biyombo ends up being in the top 7. Teams like the Pistons and the Raptors may need someone like him

Certainly, a guy like Biyombo might make up for the defensive liabilities of Monroe and Davis. There's no way he's getting past those two teams and GS at 11, that's for sure.