Andrew Wiggins is not a lock at #1?

[LloydFree]

Wiggins is similar to Kobe and McGrady in high school. Like them he's great athletically but skill wise there's nothing he's great at right now. In all the areas you have to work at with practice and repetition (skill) Wiggins is solid to good but no area is he great at anything right now. He's an average shooter, has good handles, rebounds well but not great, good defender, finishes well, and an ok passer. LeBron was great in damn near every area entering the NBA except shooting. Kobe and McGrady weren't great in really any area and that's why they didn't start right away. Wiggins is similar to Kobe and McGrady in that regard. If Wiggins has the natural ability and solid skill set now. If he doesn't get distracted and works to improve his skills then he'll be great.

That's all I'm saying. Wiggins is a similar level HS prospect, with similar skill level, to Kobe Bryant (and Tracey McGrady for that matter). To say that it is shocking for someone to compare Wiggins and Kobe's skill level at the same stage is a little over the top, IMO. Neither Kobe or McGrady were finished prospects when they came into the league, if they were, they wouldn't have been sitting on the bench their rookie years.

[tranjSAIC]

Embiid has nowhere near Drummond's athleticism, and while he possesses nice touch and footwork around the basket, his moves are brutally slow.

No lift, no power, no speed.

I definitely agree with this, plus one thing that makes Drummond so special is he is able to do this with a ton of mass on his body. This Embiid kid looks anoreix compared to Drummond.

[ManualRam]

blah blah

kobe was gerald green with a work ethic? kobe was just a dunker?
anything further you have to say on this subject will be ignored.

[ManualRam]

Wiggins is similar to Kobe and McGrady in high school. Like them he's great athletically but skill wise there's nothing he's great at right now. In all the areas you have to work at with practice and repetition (skill) Wiggins is solid to good but no area is he great at anything right now. He's an average shooter, has good handles, rebounds well but not great, good defender, finishes well, and an ok passer. LeBron was great in damn near every area entering the NBA except shooting. Kobe and McGrady weren't great in really any area and that's why they didn't start right away. Wiggins is similar to Kobe and McGrady in that regard. If Wiggins has the natural ability and solid skill set now. If he doesn't get distracted and works to improve his skills then he'll be great.

That's all I'm saying. Wiggins is a similar level HS prospect, with similar skill level, to Kobe Bryant (and Tracey McGrady for that matter). To say that it is shocking for someone to compare Wiggins and Kobe's skill level at the same stage is a little over the top, IMO. Neither Kobe or McGrady were finished prospects when they came into the league, if they were, they wouldn't have been sitting on the bench their rookie years.

no, neither were finished products but both kobe and mcgrady were more skilled than wiggins is now.

[tranjSAIC]

no, neither were finished products but both kobe and mcgrady were more skilled than wiggins is now.

Lets just say they were more skilled, even if they were it's not a huge gap. The only wing prospect I've seen in the past 20 years I think is heads and shoulders above everyone is Lebron. Not only did Lebron have the scoring ability, he had the body and passing ability you hardly see from a top wing prospect.

Kobe and Tmac were great HS players, but please don't rewrite history and make it seem like they were once in a generation type talents.

[Young_Buc]

no, neither were finished products but both kobe and mcgrady were more skilled than wiggins is now.

Lets just say they were more skilled, even if they were it's not a huge gap. The only wing prospect I've seen in the past 20 years I think is heads and shoulders above everyone is Lebron. Not only did Lebron have the scoring ability, he had the body and passing ability you hardly see from a top wing prospect.

Kobe and Tmac were great HS players, but please don't rewrite history and make it seem like they were once in a generation type talents.

Exactly. I have no idea why this guys got his panties in a bunch or if he even watched basketball in the 90's. There have been VERY few generational high school talents (lebron, kareem, garnett) Kobe is not one of them.


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[ManualRam]

no, neither were finished products but both kobe and mcgrady were more skilled than wiggins is now.

Lets just say they were more skilled, even if they were it's not a huge gap. The only wing prospect I've seen in the past 20 years I think is heads and shoulders above everyone is Lebron. Not only did Lebron have the scoring ability, he had the body and passing ability you hardly see from a top wing prospect.

Kobe and Tmac were great HS players, but please don't rewrite history and make it seem like they were once in a generation type talents.

like i said in a previous post, imo, there is not one single offensive skill that i would say wiggins is on par with prep kobe. so yeah, i would disagree that the difference in skill isn't sizable.
generational type talent? depends on your definition. every decade? every 20 yr? a lifetime? prospects tend to get that type of talk when they're breaking wilt's area scoring records in HS and sweeping every individual accolade available. how many prep players have a combination of prototype size, athleticism, skill, competitiveness, pedigree, iq and maturity coming out of HS? not many at all.

[LloydFree]

no, neither were finished products but both kobe and mcgrady were more skilled than wiggins is now.

Lets just say they were more skilled, even if they were it's not a huge gap. The only wing prospect I've seen in the past 20 years I think is heads and shoulders above everyone is Lebron. Not only did Lebron have the scoring ability, he had the body and passing ability you hardly see from a top wing prospect.

Kobe and Tmac were great HS players, but please don't rewrite history and make it seem like they were once in a generation type talents.

like i said in a previous post, imo, there is not one single offensive skill that i would say wiggins is on par with prep kobe. so yeah, i would disagree that the difference in skill isn't sizable.
generational type talent? depends on your definition. every decade? every 20 yr? a lifetime? prospects tend to get that type of talk when they're breaking wilt's area scoring records in HS and sweeping every individual accolade available. how many prep players have a combination of prototype size, athleticism, skill, competitiveness, pedigree, iq and maturity coming out of HS? not many at all.

Well, like I said before, I believe you are incorrect. Kobe had a 'high' and sloppy right hand handle, and Kobe Bryant couldn't dribble with his left hand. He was so right hand dominant, when he was forced to go left on drives, he had to contort his body and do reverse layups with his right hand in order to finish. Andrew Wiggins doesn't have that problem. His go-to move, is a spin move to his left, where he finishes with his left hand. So that's at least one "skill" he has that is better than Kobe. The use of his left hand.

[ManualRam]

like i said in a previous post, imo, there is not one single offensive skill that i would say wiggins is on par with prep kobe. so yeah, i would disagree that the difference in skill isn't sizable.
generational type talent? depends on your definition. every decade? every 20 yr? a lifetime? prospects tend to get that type of talk when they're breaking wilt's area scoring records in HS and sweeping every individual accolade available. how many prep players have a combination of prototype size, athleticism, skill, competitiveness, pedigree, iq and maturity coming out of HS? not many at all.

Well, like I said before, I believe you are incorrect. Kobe had a 'high' and sloppy right hand handle, and Kobe Bryant couldn't dribble with his left hand. He was so right hand dominant, when he was forced to go left on drives, he had to contort his body and do reverse layups with his right hand in order to finish. Andrew Wiggins doesn't have that problem. His go-to move, is a spin move to his left, where he finishes with his left hand. So that's at least one "skill" he has that is better than Kobe. The use of his left hand.

obviously i disagree with you. players with sloppy handles aren't entrusted to play the point for playoff teams as a rookie.
even the picture that you're painting is a player with a better handle than wiggins.
and i know you're not trying to pump up wiggins' left hand as if its a strength.

[LloydFree]

Keep referencing what Kobe did as a pro. That has nothing to do with how he played as a High school player. If Wiggins gets some garbage time run as a PG for the Raptors NEXT year, that does not mean he had a great handle as a High Schooler in 2013.

[ManualRam]

Keep referencing what Kobe did as a pro. That has nothing to do with how he played as a High school player. If Wiggins gets some garbage time run as a PG for the Raptors NEXT year, that does not mean he had a great handle as a High Schooler in 2013.

yeah bc kobe's rookie yr was SO far removed from his senior yr in HS, right? kobe had a weak handle in HS then magically transformed his handle within a span of 1 offseason?
we'll see how much run wiggins gets this yr as a primary ball-handler. my guess would be close to none.

[Big_C_KU]

Wiggins had solid debut. 16 pts (5-13), 6 reb, 1 say, 1 TO, 2 blks.

He struggled with his jumper a little bit. Took 4 jumpers, 3 from deep. 1 was down and came back out, 1 was a flat brick that came off the backboard, the other 2 hit back rim. Nothing looked bad in form as he had the same form and didn't come forward on his jumper but he was off. Definitely looks more comfortable shooting off dribble instead of spot up. Did knock down a deep pull-up jumper but was called for travel right before which was a questionable call.

Wiggins has good handles. Can only remember him once letting a dribble get above his waist. He can get into the lane at will. Incredible first step and spin move. Finishes well through and over defenders. He's going to live at the line this year.

Defending is tough this year in college because of the rule changes. Its a bit hard to get close to defend on the perimeter like you can in the NBA. That said Wiggins did a good job staying infront of the ball handlers. He did get beat once but he recovered and blocked the layup attempt. Rebounded strong inside. 3 offensive and 3 defensive rebounds.

Wiggins played well when he went into attack mode the last 10 minutes of game. Handles are just fine and that spin move is deadly. He's unselfish and he'll have some big scoring games because he can get into lane at will, finish, get to line, and his jumpshot, while not great, is streaky. Game was against a division II opponent though so the big read on Wiggins won't be till Nov 12th.

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[165bows]

Wiggins had solid debut. 16 pts (5-13), 6 reb, 1 say, 1 TO, 2 blks.

He struggled with his jumper a little bit. Took 4 jumpers, 3 from deep. 1 was down and came back out, 1 was a flat brick that came off the backboard, the other 2 hit back rim. Nothing looked bad in form as he had the same form and didn't come forward on his jumper but he was off. Definitely looks more comfortable shooting off dribble instead of spot up. Did knock down a deep pull-up jumper but was called for travel right before which was a questionable call.

Wiggins has good handles. Can only remember him once letting a dribble get above his waist. He can get into the lane at will. Incredible first step and spin move. Finishes well through and over defenders. He's going to live at the line this year.

Defending is tough this year in college because of the rule changes. Its a bit hard to get close to defend on the perimeter like you can in the NBA. That said Wiggins did a good job staying infront of the ball handlers. He did get beat once but he recovered and blocked the layup attempt. Rebounded strong inside. 3 offensive and 3 defensive rebounds.

Wiggins played well when he went into attack mode the last 10 minutes of game. Handles are just fine and that spin move is deadly. He's unselfish and he'll have some big scoring games because he can get into lane at will, finish, get to line, and his jumpshot, while not great, is streaky. Game was against a division II opponent though so the big read on Wiggins won't be till Nov 12th.

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Thanks, appreciate the write-up. These are preseason scrimmages?

[Big_C_KU]

Exhibition game against a division II school in Kansas. KU plays 2 exhibition games against 2 of them every year. They have another one next Tuesday and then the first official game is a week from Friday.

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[165bows]

Exhibition game against a division II school in Kansas. KU plays 2 exhibition games against 2 of them every year. They have another one next Tuesday and then the first official game is a week from Friday.

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Any impressions of Selden and Embiid?

[Big_C_KU]

Exhibition game against a division II school in Kansas. KU plays 2 exhibition games against 2 of them every year. They have another one next Tuesday and then the first official game is a week from Friday.

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Any impressions of Selden and Embiid?

Embiid is the definition of raw but oozing potential. He runs the floor so well, very agile, and feet are very coordinated. He has good jumper and showed a couple post moves but failed more times than he succeeded in the post. Must get a lot stronger. He's a bit of a bean pole right now. What Embiid's biggest problem is he doesn't understand a lot of the game right now, especially near the basket. When he gets right at the basket he wants to put the ball on the floor or lay it up instead of dunking it. Missed a wide open layup that he should have easily dunked. Thinks he can get to every rebound and block every shot which leads to fouls. He's the example of kid who could probably enter the draft and go in the 5-10 range based off potential or return and go top 3. Either way he's a couple years away whether he learns it in college or the NBA. Once he starts to understand the game better though look out.

Selden struggled. Looked nervous and picked up 2 quick fouls. Has a strong handle but didn't hit any jump shots. He looked like he was thinking way too much instead of reacting. Is a good passer but made some bad decisions. Will get a better read on him when the nerves are gone and he's reacting instead of thinking when he touches the ball.

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[ManualRam]

the game is archived on espn3 if anyone wants to watch it. pretty ugly stuff.

i was impressed with andrew white. he bulked up a lot and just looks like a solid wing player with a good stroke. martell webster-esque

i don't think much of perry ellis as an nba prospect but he looked like the best player his team. he's an undersized 4 (not against the comp last night though), but has good footwork and touch.

naadir tharpe looks like he's come light yrs since last yr. he played at a more controlled pace.

wiggins wasn't all that impressive. attacked closeouts and off the pass on 2 dribble drives, scored in transition. didnt show anything to indicate an improved handle or anything like that. caught an oop, scored on a putback on his own miss. missed all of his jumpers. iow, pretty much how he scored in hs. didnt see any new wrinkles to his game, but nerves were a factor and it was just an ugly game in general.

selden looked kinda slow and unsure of himself. he's got a great frame and obvious strength but i kinda worry about his quickness.

embiid shows good form on his shot and soft touch, but i didnt see much else of note other than a couple of hustle plays. he's got a long way to go. i thought landen lucas looked better.

[Big_C_KU]

the game is archived on espn3 if anyone wants to watch it. pretty ugly stuff.

i was impressed with andrew white. he bulked up a lot and just looks like a solid wing player with a good stroke. martell webster-esque

i don't think much of perry ellis as an nba prospect but he looked like the best player his team. he's an undersized 4 (not against the comp last night though), but has good footwork and touch.

naadir tharpe looks like he's come light yrs since last yr. he played at a more controlled pace.

wiggins wasn't all that impressive. attacked closeouts and off the pass on 2 dribble drives, scored in transition. didnt show anything to indicate an improved handle or anything like that. caught an oop, scored on a putback on his own miss. missed all of his jumpers. iow, pretty much how he scored in hs. didnt see any new wrinkles to his game, but nerves were a factor and it was just an ugly game in general.

selden looked kinda slow and unsure of himself. he's got a great frame and obvious strength but i kinda worry about his quickness.

embiid shows good form on his shot and soft touch, but i didnt see much else of note other than a couple of hustle plays. he's got a long way to go. i thought landen lucas looked better.

Honestly Wiggins had a ok but nothing spectacular until the last 10 minutes when he started attacking off the dribble. Wiggins is going to put up some big scoring games because he can get into lane, score on fastbreak, get to FT line, and he's a streaky shooter. Doubt he'll become a more consistent shooter in just one season at KU. It will have to be in the pros.

Ram you act like he has horrible handles which is far from true. He's not a shake you down defender but he shows good handles and knows how to attack the basket.

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[ManualRam]

the game is archived on espn3 if anyone wants to watch it. pretty ugly stuff.

i was impressed with andrew white. he bulked up a lot and just looks like a solid wing player with a good stroke. martell webster-esque

i don't think much of perry ellis as an nba prospect but he looked like the best player his team. he's an undersized 4 (not against the comp last night though), but has good footwork and touch.

naadir tharpe looks like he's come light yrs since last yr. he played at a more controlled pace.

wiggins wasn't all that impressive. attacked closeouts and off the pass on 2 dribble drives, scored in transition. didnt show anything to indicate an improved handle or anything like that. caught an oop, scored on a putback on his own miss. missed all of his jumpers. iow, pretty much how he scored in hs. didnt see any new wrinkles to his game, but nerves were a factor and it was just an ugly game in general.

selden looked kinda slow and unsure of himself. he's got a great frame and obvious strength but i kinda worry about his quickness.

embiid shows good form on his shot and soft touch, but i didnt see much else of note other than a couple of hustle plays. he's got a long way to go. i thought landen lucas looked better.

Honestly Wiggins had a ok but nothing spectacular until the last 10 minutes when he started attacking off the dribble. Wiggins is going to put up some big scoring games because he can get into lane, score on fastbreak, get to FT line, and he's a streaky shooter. Doubt he'll become a more consistent shooter in just one season at KU. It will have to be in the pros.

Ram you act like he has horrible handles which is far from true. He's not a shake you down defender but he shows good handles and knows how to attack the basket.

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horrible handles? no, but i don't think its a strength of his game. he's not creating advantages with his handle. he can exploit gaps with his ranginess, but he's not getting his defender off balance by himself. luckily he covers a ton of ground with each move so he doesn't need to put the ball on the deck more than 2-3 dribbles at a time. he is economical with his dribbles, which is a good thing. he knows his limitations.

[Big_C_KU]

I can under stand that. What you're basically saying is he's not a shake you and score type of wing right now which I agree with. He's a 1-2 pull up or 3-4 dribble straight line driver. He has good handles.

I've noticed on his shot he's far more comfortable shooting off the dribble. When he goes off the dribble he goes straight up and has consistent form. When he is set shooting he has a tendency to lean off balance a bit, usually forward leading to him moving forward on the shot.

Wiggins is someone who I would classify as a scorer. He's is at his best attacking off the dribble whether its to basket or pull-up jumper. This will lead to many FTs and easy buckets. Wiggins monster games will be when he gets streaky on his shot which people who have attended practices, watched the scrimmages, and yesterday said he has a tendency to be. People said in practice one shooting session he'd barely miss and then later that practice he'd hardly hit any. People at KU's open scrimmage last week said he couldn't hit anything in three shoot around but in the game he went 3-3 from outside the paint swishing them all. In yesterdays game they said he couldn't miss in the shoot around before the game but last night he missed all his in game jumpers. Wiggins is going to be very streaky shooting the ball. IMO he doesn't have to do much changing to his jumper but he does need more repetition shooting when spotting up so he becomes more consistent in where he lands instead of coming forward or leaning. Needs to shoot his spot-up jumper more like his pull-up jumper which looks better form wise.

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