Scottie Barnes

[azcatz11]

Chad's been eating too many Built Bars.

I mean - you've been regurgitating his takes on this board non stop.

So are you Chad Ford?

[Nazrmohamed]

Sure. "I'm right you're wrong and there's no discussion to be had on a discussion forum"

Giannis is a 6-10 combo big wiry athlete that plays primarily in transition and downhill, Barnes is a 6-8 combo forward that is much more of a set player that likes to orchestrate and run offense, the comp doesn't make sense from any standpoint and no not stylistically

and if ur gonna compare Barnes to Giannis...why stop there? why not also comp Jalen Johnson to Giannis? or JT Thor...hell why not Kuminga? what makes Barnes a better comp than any of these guys to Giannis?

IllI'take a stab. It's always hard to compare players because for people to see it sometimes they literally have to see a future MVP who leads another guy like Middleton to a title. It's like the story has to be the same. Idk if that's what you're doing but when someone says stylistically I think how ones body moves.

So let's work backwards. Of the following players Giannes, Jalen Green, Thor, Barnes only 2 are 6'9 and have the capacity to play PG. You just said if yourself "likes to orchestrate and run offense" which is exactly what Giannes did for about 3 yrs of his career. Depending on the coach they may employ it less or more. Under kid they put the ball in his hands and he was Indewd running that offense,, under Bud it's something to be utilized but with a primary responsibility of getting downhill and attacking the offense.

Essentially Giannes can do both and out of the 4 guys listed so can Barnes. OK well maybe so can Jalen right? Well sure every SG in the NBA should be able to split time at the 1 or you probably just aren't good but then the other caveats is that Barnes is doing that at 6'9 and can guard 4 positions like Giannes. Well why not Thor? Thor defensively may be close, but then he fails offensively IMO. Will never have that skillset. More of simply a finisher.

I honestly don't know how you don't see this. One doesn't need any advances stats, don't really even need counting stats. You watch two videos side by side and they move the same. Same long gait on drives, same suspect range on shot but get anywhere they want. Maybe it's because you're forgetting first 3 yr Giannes and you're solely focusing on this yrs Giannes or last yrs Giannes. You are giving Barnes the benefit of the doubt when it comes to body transformation right?The kid gets time to beef up.

[nicnac215]

He's a lot more Simmons than he is Giannis. Maybe a smaller Giannis, but what makes Giannis Giannis is his ridiculous size/length which Barnes, impressive as he is, does not possess.

Giannis has a 9’2” standing reach
Simmons has a 8’11” standing reach
AD has a 9’ standing reach
Kawhi has a 8’10” standing reach
Siakam has a 8’11.5” standing reach
Randle has a 8’10” standing reach
Mobley has a 9’ standing reach
Barnes has a 9’ standing reach

There is zero concern for Barnes size. He is elite. His intangibles too. I guarantee the Magic draft him at 5 if the top 4 goes as expected.

[basketballRob]

He's a lot more Simmons than he is Giannis. Maybe a smaller Giannis, but what makes Giannis Giannis is his ridiculous size/length which Barnes, impressive as he is, does not possess.

Giannis has a 9’2” standing reach
Simmons has a 8’11” standing reach
AD has a 9’ standing reach
Kawhi has a 8’10” standing reach
Siakam has a 8’11.5” standing reach
Randle has a 8’10” standing reach
Mobley has a 9’ standing reach
Barnes has a 9’ standing reach

There is zero concern for Barnes size. He is elite. His intangibles too. I guarantee the Magic draft him at 5 if the top 4 goes as expected.

I think it's 50-50 at best that they take Barnes. He has a huge flaw, he's a terrible shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Big J]

He's a lot more Simmons than he is Giannis. Maybe a smaller Giannis, but what makes Giannis Giannis is his ridiculous size/length which Barnes, impressive as he is, does not possess.

Giannis has a 9’2” standing reach
Simmons has a 8’11” standing reach
AD has a 9’ standing reach
Kawhi has a 8’10” standing reach
Siakam has a 8’11.5” standing reach
Randle has a 8’10” standing reach
Mobley has a 9’ standing reach
Barnes has a 9’ standing reach

There is zero concern for Barnes size. He is elite. His intangibles too. I guarantee the Magic draft him at 5 if the top 4 goes as expected.

I think it's 50-50 at best that they take Barnes. He has a huge flaw, he's a terrible shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

So is Giannis...

[clyde21]

IllI'take a stab. It's always hard to compare players because for people to see it sometimes they literally have to see a future MVP who leads another guy like Middleton to a title. It's like the story has to be the same. Idk if that's what you're doing but when someone says stylistically I think how ones body moves.

first of all...this comp was not made as 'only stylistically' originally...the original comp was that Barnes' ceiling is Gainnis w/ Simmons playmaking. it was, is and will always be a stupid comp, no matter how many disclaimers like 'stylistically' (whatever the hell that means) you or others attach to it to make it more digestible.

So let's work backwards. Of the following players Giannes, Jalen Green, Thor, Barnes only 2 are 6'9 and have the capacity to play PG. You just said if yourself "likes to orchestrate and run offense" which is exactly what Giannes did for about 3 yrs of his career. Depending on the coach they may employ it less or more. Under kid they put the ball in his hands and he was Indewd running that offense,, under Bud it's something to be utilized but with a primary responsibility of getting downhill and attacking the offense.

Giannis never played PG in the NBA for 3 years....wtf are you talking about?

the only time he played "PG" was back in 2015 and did that only 40% of the time...the vast majority of time he's been a combo forward really, and the last 4 years he's been almost exclusively a PF which, if we're making ANY comp to Giannis, we're taking the last four years, not taking 21 yr old Giannis and deriving a comp from there.

and you don't comp two players because they are both tall and can pass. it's a shallow analysis that doesn't mean anything from a bball standpoint. yes, Giannis can pass, but the majority of his assists are on either drive-kick outs or inside-out passes when he gets doubled in the paint...that's not Barnes game at all...Barnes wants to actually set up offense and half-court sets and that's how he likes to run and facilitate offense...Giannis just want to run and attack the basket and playmake from there...two completely different styles of offense and playmaking.

I honestly don't know how you don't see this.

because it's a terrible surface level comp that doesn't go a step below 'DeRp BoTh TaLL and CaN PasS They MuSt Be ThE SaMe'. in that case why not just compare Draymond to Giannis? what about Melo? why not Cade?

[clyde21]

Giannis has a 9’2” standing reach
Simmons has a 8’11” standing reach
AD has a 9’ standing reach
Kawhi has a 8’10” standing reach
Siakam has a 8’11.5” standing reach
Randle has a 8’10” standing reach
Mobley has a 9’ standing reach
Barnes has a 9’ standing reach

There is zero concern for Barnes size. He is elite. His intangibles too. I guarantee the Magic draft him at 5 if the top 4 goes as expected.

I think it's 50-50 at best that they take Barnes. He has a huge flaw, he's a terrible shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

So is Giannis...

...and?

[Yuri Vaultin]

Chad's been eating too many Built Bars.

I mean - you've been regurgitating his takes on this board non stop.

So are you Chad Ford?

Only one way to tell... does he go back and edit his nock drafts and prognostications?

Ford is an absolute hack.

[azcatz11]

Chad's been eating too many Built Bars.

I mean - you've been regurgitating his takes on this board non stop.

So are you Chad Ford?

Only one way to tell... does he go back and edit his nock drafts and prognostications?

Ford is an absolute hack.

I don't know why I listen to his pod but I do. He has a regular guest (Tony something from Yahoo) who I think is pretty solid and knows his stuff.

[Yuri Vaultin]

think it's 50-50 at best that they take Barnes. He has a huge flaw, he's a terrible shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

So is Giannis...

So were a ton of guys that are out of the league. Remember Tyrus Thomas to name but 1?

[CptCrunch]

I like how some pretend Giannis was a good prospect. He had an outlier developmental curve in the league.

Comparing anyone to Giannis as a prospect demonstrates a lack of basketball developmental understanding. Barnes is 3x the prospect Giannis was, but is basically unlikely (like with all long high physicality, low skill prospects) to become Giannis.

[Big J]

What about Scottie Pippen? He improved his shot a ton over his career. Check his FT% from his early years to his later ones. Same with Karl Malone.

[BostonCouchGM]

I like how some pretend Giannis was a good prospect. He had an outlier developmental curve in the league.

Comparing anyone to Giannis as a prospect demonstrates a lack of basketball developmental understanding. Barnes is 3x the prospect Giannis was, but is basically unlikely (like with all long high physicality, low skill prospects) to become Giannis.

that's simply not true. Giannis was 6'9" and still growing with a 7'4" wingspan, incredible athleticism, and 12' hands (Kawhi's are 11.25") He was a physical specimen, like Lebron, AD, KD, MJ and Shaq...a true outlier. That's not to say Barnes isn't also a freak in his own right because he is and that's why he's such a great prospect with DPOY potential. He just isn't at Giannis' level when he was drafted. Idiot G.M.s got it wrong. Continuing to let these guys off the hook and pretend it's rocket science does nobody any good. 14 G.M.s simply missed because they either lacked a good scout and/or mental fortitude to make a pick against consensus. Those same G.M.s also missed out on Gobert. You'd think it would have ushered in a new way of thinking for G.M.s but they continue to miss badly especially on long, versatile athletes who need development time.

[Nazrmohamed]

IllI'take a stab. It's always hard to compare players because for people to see it sometimes they literally have to see a future MVP who leads another guy like Middleton to a title. It's like the story has to be the same. Idk if that's what you're doing but when someone says stylistically I think how ones body moves.

first of all...this comp was not made as 'only stylistically' originally...the original comp was that Barnes' ceiling is Gainnis w/ Simmons playmaking. it was, is and will always be a stupid comp, no matter how many disclaimers like 'stylistically' (whatever the hell that means) you or others attach to it to make it more digestible.

So let's work backwards. Of the following players Giannes, Jalen Green, Thor, Barnes only 2 are 6'9 and have the capacity to play PG. You just said if yourself "likes to orchestrate and run offense" which is exactly what Giannes did for about 3 yrs of his career. Depending on the coach they may employ it less or more. Under kid they put the ball in his hands and he was Indewd running that offense,, under Bud it's something to be utilized but with a primary responsibility of getting downhill and attacking the offense.

Giannis never played PG in the NBA for 3 years....wtf are you talking about?

the only time he played "PG" was back in 2015 and did that only 40% of the time...the vast majority of time he's been a combo forward really, and the last 4 years he's been almost exclusively a PF which, if we're making ANY comp to Giannis, we're taking the last four years, not taking 21 yr old Giannis and deriving a comp from there.

and you don't comp two players because they are both tall and can pass. it's a shallow analysis that doesn't mean anything from a bball standpoint. yes, Giannis can pass, but the majority of his assists are on either drive-kick outs or inside-out passes when he gets doubled in the paint...that's not Barnes game at all...Barnes wants to actually set up offense and half-court sets and that's how he likes to run and facilitate offense...Giannis just want to run and attack the basket and playmake from there...two completely different styles of offense and playmaking.

I honestly don't know how you don't see this.

because it's a terrible surface level comp that doesn't go a step below 'DeRp BoTh TaLL and CaN PasS They MuSt Be ThE SaMe'. in that case why not just compare Draymond to Giannis? what about Melo? why not Cade?

Then how do you compare players exactly since you know so much about surface level comparisons. I mean if you think Draymond Green has a similarly to a skinny long athlete who earosteps his way to every drive. As if Cade has even a remote chance to ever play PF in his career. I'm just curious when you compare players what do you use. Literally the same body type, same gait, same way they get to the rim minus Giannes added strength in the last 3 yrs. You can't see Barnes putting on that type of muscle and then dominating in the same ways? How do you compare players then, what do you compare prospects to pros then? Seriously

And trust me. I remember being on this same site arguing with people just like you when I promoted Giannes as a future awesome player ( you can dig up my history, just go to the draft board) and then on the threads in his rookie and sophomore yrs when he didn't when people were bashing his potential. Sometimes you just can see it. When I compare players I almost exclusively mean archetype, way they move. I'll tell you this as a qualifier and you can go at it but I think Siakum has the same base archetype as well. Less of a passer and alittle better shooter but same thing.

Cunningham and Draymond are as different from eachother as they are from that Barnes/Siakum/Giannes archetype. They will catch, face up, dribble drive/spin and then pass put of that platform usually scoring moreso off of some elongated use of thier athleticism and length than because they performed a litany of post moves.

[Zombiesonics]

weary on barnes, when does drafting a guy who has zero shot @ being your 1st , 2nd or 3rd option scoring work out in the high lottery? Yes he could be an all defensive player but how much value is that really since he is taking so much off the table shooting wise? You woulda thought people have learned from the ben simmons debacle.

Ok barnes is a pg, how the hell is he going to run pick n roll? or get any respect from opposing defenses?

[Big J]

weary on barnes, when does drafting a guy who has zero shot @ being your 1st , 2nd or 3rd option scoring work out in the high lottery? Yes he could be an all defensive player but how much value is that really since he is taking so much off the table shooting wise? You woulda thought people have learned from the ben simmons debacle.

Ok barnes is a pg, how the hell is he going to run pick n roll? or get any respect from opposing defenses?

Simmons has a horrible work ethic. He’d rather play Call of Duty and date Kardashians than work on his game. Getting better at shooting is easy if you actually put the time in.

[Yuri Vaultin]

.... but what about his social media?

[CptCrunch]

weary on barnes, when does drafting a guy who has zero shot @ being your 1st , 2nd or 3rd option scoring work out in the high lottery? Yes he could be an all defensive player but how much value is that really since he is taking so much off the table shooting wise? You woulda thought people have learned from the ben simmons debacle.

Ok barnes is a pg, how the hell is he going to run pick n roll? or get any respect from opposing defenses?

No reason he can't be a 3rd best player, 18/8 all-NBA defense type of player. I would say that is a reasonable average case for Barnes. For him to peak higher, he would need an outlier developmental curve (and no one can predict that).

[monalotry]

18 ppg seems like a tall order given his *current* skillset but he could get there with a ton of development.

[Big J]

weary on barnes, when does drafting a guy who has zero shot @ being your 1st , 2nd or 3rd option scoring work out in the high lottery? Yes he could be an all defensive player but how much value is that really since he is taking so much off the table shooting wise? You woulda thought people have learned from the ben simmons debacle.

Ok barnes is a pg, how the hell is he going to run pick n roll? or get any respect from opposing defenses?

No reason he can't be a 3rd best player, 18/8 all-NBA defense type of player. I would say that is a reasonable average case for Barnes. For him to peak higher, he would need an outlier developmental curve (and no one can predict that).

He could easily get to 18/8/8 and be a Pippen type defender.