Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft

[SelfishPlayer]

i see lots of mixed opinions on his athleticism/explosiveness

to me i see kawhi athletically more than brown and that is who he should be modeling his game after. From the high socks, to the limited amount of flash - holland needs to just use fundamentals on offense to score - he isn't breaking anyones ankles.

problem is kawhi shot 37 percent from 3 as a rookie and holland is 24 percent and in 60s on free throws.

If holland can't shoot i'm taking a plethora of guys over him like a josh minott who was a later round pick for example

at holland's age, kawhi was a 20% 3pt shooter from the college line.

Kawhi has one of the rarest development curves in the NBA, along with Jaylen Brown who people are also throwing around in this thread. The odds are overwhelming that a guy who is a terrible shooter before the NBA is likely to be a bad-to-terrible shooter in the NBA. Almost no-one has the Kawhi development leap.

Tyrese Maxey

[QingJames]

at holland's age, kawhi was a 20% 3pt shooter from the college line.

Kawhi has one of the rarest development curves in the NBA, along with Jaylen Brown who people are also throwing around in this thread. The odds are overwhelming that a guy who is a terrible shooter before the NBA is likely to be a bad-to-terrible shooter in the NBA. Almost no-one has the Kawhi development leap.

Tyrese Maxey

Again, those are exceptions that prove the rule. For every Kawhi there are 30 Stanley Johnsons. Also, Maxey shot well from the charity stripe in college (83% on 4 attempts per game) which is strongly coordinated with 3 point shooting viability in the NBA. 68% from the line is much, much worse and strongly correlated with being a bad shooter in the NBA.

Even setting aside Holland’s bad shooting markers, I wouldn’t draft one of these Ignite guys. They develop terrible habits and the single best player to come out of that program is Kuminga, which is pretty damning.

[Jcool0]

Kawhi has one of the rarest development curves in the NBA, along with Jaylen Brown who people are also throwing around in this thread. The odds are overwhelming that a guy who is a terrible shooter before the NBA is likely to be a bad-to-terrible shooter in the NBA. Almost no-one has the Kawhi development leap.

Tyrese Maxey

Again, those are exceptions that prove the rule. For every Kawhi there are 30 Stanley Johnsons. Also, Maxey shot well from the charity stripe in college (83% on 4 attempts per game) which is strongly coordinated with 3 point shooting viability in the NBA. 68% from the line is much, much worse and strongly correlated with being a bad shooter in the NBA.

Even setting aside Holland’s bad shooting markers, I wouldn’t draft one of these Ignite guys. They develop terrible habits and the single best player to come out of that program is Kuminga, which is pretty damning.

Holland shot 75.7 from the line on 5 attempts.

[greg4012]

i see lots of mixed opinions on his athleticism/explosiveness

to me i see kawhi athletically more than brown and that is who he should be modeling his game after. From the high socks, to the limited amount of flash - holland needs to just use fundamentals on offense to score - he isn't breaking anyones ankles.

problem is kawhi shot 37 percent from 3 as a rookie and holland is 24 percent and in 60s on free throws.

If holland can't shoot i'm taking a plethora of guys over him like a josh minott who was a later round pick for example

at holland's age, kawhi was a 20% 3pt shooter from the college line.

Kawhi has one of the rarest development curves in the NBA, along with Jaylen Brown who people are also throwing around in this thread. The odds are overwhelming that a guy who is a terrible shooter before the NBA is likely to be a bad-to-terrible shooter in the NBA. Almost no-one has the Kawhi development leap.

let's look at the 18 year old stats of other top wings (check out freshman year stats):

Jimmy Butler - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jimmy-butler-1.html
Kawhi Leonard - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kawhi-leonard-1.html
Paul George - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/paul-george-1.html
Jayson Tatum - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jayson-tatum-1.html
Mikal Bridges - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/mikal-bridges-1.html
Demar Derozan - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demar-derozan-1.html
Khris Middelton - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/khris-middleton-1.html
Franz Wagner - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/franz-wagner-1.html
Andrew Wiggins -https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andrew-wiggins-1.html
OG Anunoby - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/og-anunoby-1.html
Jalen Williams - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-13.html

Common features in basically all of them--a bad A/TO ratio. The only one with a positive A/TO ratio was super low usage as a Freshman (Jalen Williams). Other common features with most is bad 3-pt shooting. Many with worse FT shooting than Holland, as well.

I like to operate off of available info. Virtually no uber athletic wing prospects with clear scoring talent and defensive ability are also sharpshooting playmakers at 18 years old.

[SelfishPlayer]

Kawhi has one of the rarest development curves in the NBA, along with Jaylen Brown who people are also throwing around in this thread. The odds are overwhelming that a guy who is a terrible shooter before the NBA is likely to be a bad-to-terrible shooter in the NBA. Almost no-one has the Kawhi development leap.

Tyrese Maxey

Again, those are exceptions that prove the rule. For every Kawhi there are 30 Stanley Johnsons. Also, Maxey shot well from the charity stripe in college (83% on 4 attempts per game) which is strongly coordinated with 3 point shooting viability in the NBA. 68% from the line is much, much worse and strongly correlated with being a bad shooter in the NBA.

Even setting aside Holland’s bad shooting markers, I wouldn’t draft one of these Ignite guys. They develop terrible habits and the single best player to come out of that program is Kuminga, which is pretty damning.

Trevor Ariza, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

[shakes0]

Hollinger from The Athletic has Holland #1 on his big board.

[SelfishPlayer]

Hollinger from The Athletic has Holland #1 on his big board.

I believe analytics guys are using his steal rate to place him that high. Ron Holland looks like he #1 pick to me.

[vincecarter4pres]

Anybody see a little Richard Jefferson?

[bucknut]

Anybody see a little Richard Jefferson?

I think that falls into the sprewell comp. Great drivers with not alot of bag but a solid mid range. Jefferson was more explosive then Holland.

Holland has more wiggle potential.

[JRoy]

Wrong Jefferson.

Looks like RHJ.

[QingJames]

Tyrese Maxey

Again, those are exceptions that prove the rule. For every Kawhi there are 30 Stanley Johnsons. Also, Maxey shot well from the charity stripe in college (83% on 4 attempts per game) which is strongly coordinated with 3 point shooting viability in the NBA. 68% from the line is much, much worse and strongly correlated with being a bad shooter in the NBA.

Even setting aside Holland’s bad shooting markers, I wouldn’t draft one of these Ignite guys. They develop terrible habits and the single best player to come out of that program is Kuminga, which is pretty damning.

Holland shot 75.7 from the line on 5 attempts.

Oops I was looking at the wrong stats (showcase cup). Thanks for correcting.

[vincecarter4pres]

Wrong Jefferson.

Looks like RHJ.

Ouch.

[MotownMadness]

The fit is so bad

Langdon must of decided he don't care about Weavers roster when drafting

[Chuck Everett]

The fit is so bad

Langdon must of decided he don't care about Weavers roster when drafting

Considering some of the wings they had tried to put around Zion when in New Orleans, I am intrigued. Holland could surprise us all here.

[Colbinii]

The fit is so bad

Langdon must of decided he don't care about Weavers roster when drafting

Who cares about the fit of a 14-win team. The Pistons have very little high-ceiling players, they have very little in terms of pure NBA talent and outside of Cade, everyone on the team has a limited ceiling for one reason or another.

Take BPA at #5.

Drafting for fit keeps you drafting for fit.

[KembaWalker]

The fit is so bad

Langdon must of decided he don't care about Weavers roster when drafting

Who cares about the fit of a 14-win team. The Pistons have very little high-ceiling players, they have very little in terms of pure NBA talent and outside of Cade, everyone on the team has a limited ceiling for one reason or another.

Take BPA at #5.

Drafting for fit keeps you drafting for fit.

Pistons certainly haven’t been drafting for fit for a while now and it seems to keep them drafting for potential. At some point you need some fit to let the potential be released

[azcatz11]

The fit is so bad

Langdon must of decided he don't care about Weavers roster when drafting

Who cares about the fit of a 14-win team. The Pistons have very little high-ceiling players, they have very little in terms of pure NBA talent and outside of Cade, everyone on the team has a limited ceiling for one reason or another.

Take BPA at #5.

Drafting for fit keeps you drafting for fit.

Pistons certainly haven’t been drafting for fit for a while now and it seems to keep them drafting for potential. At some point you need some fit to let the potential be released

That's what I was trying to say earlier in the game thread last night...we're going to have a situation with 3 dudes who literally can't shoot 3's on the court at the same time getting extended minutes together.

It's fair to wonder how that's going to work and who is going to be shipped out. My guess is Ausar

[Colbinii]

The fit is so bad

Langdon must of decided he don't care about Weavers roster when drafting

Who cares about the fit of a 14-win team. The Pistons have very little high-ceiling players, they have very little in terms of pure NBA talent and outside of Cade, everyone on the team has a limited ceiling for one reason or another.

Take BPA at #5.

Drafting for fit keeps you drafting for fit.

Pistons certainly haven’t been drafting for fit for a while now and it seems to keep them drafting for potential. At some point you need some fit to let the potential be released

You can fill in the roster for fit by adding what you need in free agency [Detroit has cap space] or trades [Detroit has assets for trades].

So the issue isn't drafting--it's filling out the roster. Let's look at how Detroit has done since drafting Cade, shall we?

Kept a non-shooter and non-nba caliber prospect in Killian Hayes playing big minutes.
Traded for Marvin Bagley.
Had a wing rotation of guys like Frank Jackson and Hamidou Diallo while trading away Trey Lyles and Kelly Olynyk [For Bojan, not bad].
Traded Jerami Grant for a 1st Rd Pick.
Traded away Kevin Knox and Seddiq Bey for James Wiseman.
Traded Nnaji for Sasser.
Traded Cap Space for Joe Harris.
Traded Bojan and Burks for Quentin Grimes.
Traded Monte Morris for Shake/TBJ.
Traded Knox for Fontecchio.

Some of the moves, especially the earlier moves, are real head scratchers. They decided to punt on cap space in 2023-2024 by eating Joe Harris instead of filling roster holes/needs. Now, they do have a decent track-record over the past 6 months, and hopefully that continues.

Look it it this way.

Decent-to-Good Shooters:
Cade Cunningham
Simone Fontecchio
Isaiah Stewart
Quentin Grimes
Marcus Sasser

Poor Shooters:
Jaden Ivey
Ron Holland

Non Shooters:
Ausar Thompson
Jalen Duren

I think moving forward, one of Ivey/Holland/Thompson/Duren will need to go, and reading the tea leaves Jaden Ivey is the odd-man out. He doesn't have a high defensive ceiling like Duren/Thompson/Holland, he doesn't possess positional flexibility like Thompson/Holland and doesn't have this incredible offensive ceiling like Cade Cunningham still possesses.

Was Jaden Ivey the wrong pick? I don't think so. He was very high on most people's boards.

Move Ivey for someone like Cameron Johnson. Overpay for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope or Klay Thompson. Bring in Doug McDermott on a short deal above the minimum.

Cade Cunningham/Marcus Sasser
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope/Quentin Grimes
Simone Fontecchio/Ron Holland/Doug McDermott
Cameron Johnson/Ausar Thompson
Jalen Duren/Isaiah Stewart

Now the team is plum-full of shooting. You can get creative with Ausar/Stewart front-courts as Ausar is so flexible defensively.

[zeebneeb]

Who cares about the fit of a 14-win team. The Pistons have very little high-ceiling players, they have very little in terms of pure NBA talent and outside of Cade, everyone on the team has a limited ceiling for one reason or another.

Take BPA at #5.

Drafting for fit keeps you drafting for fit.

Pistons certainly haven’t been drafting for fit for a while now and it seems to keep them drafting for potential. At some point you need some fit to let the potential be released

You can fill in the roster for fit by adding what you need in free agency [Detroit has cap space] or trades [Detroit has assets for trades].

So the issue isn't drafting--it's filling out the roster. Let's look at how Detroit has done since drafting Cade, shall we?

Kept a non-shooter and non-nba caliber prospect in Killian Hayes playing big minutes.
Traded for Marvin Bagley.
Had a wing rotation of guys like Frank Jackson and Hamidou Diallo while trading away Trey Lyles and Kelly Olynyk [For Bojan, not bad].
Traded Jerami Grant for a 1st Rd Pick.
Traded away Kevin Knox and Seddiq Bey for James Wiseman.
Traded Nnaji for Sasser.
Traded Cap Space for Joe Harris.
Traded Bojan and Burks for Quentin Grimes.
Traded Monte Morris for Shake/TBJ.
Traded Knox for Fontecchio.

Some of the moves, especially the earlier moves, are real head scratchers. They decided to punt on cap space in 2023-2024 by eating Joe Harris instead of filling roster holes/needs. Now, they do have a decent track-record over the past 6 months, and hopefully that continues.

Look it it this way.

Decent-to-Good Shooters:
Cade Cunningham
Simone Fontecchio
Isaiah Stewart
Quentin Grimes
Marcus Sasser

Poor Shooters:
Jaden Ivey
Ron Holland

Non Shooters:
Ausar Thompson
Jalen Duren

I think moving forward, one of Ivey/Holland/Thompson/Duren will need to go, and reading the tea leaves Jaden Ivey is the odd-man out. He doesn't have a high defensive ceiling like Duren/Thompson/Holland, he doesn't possess positional flexibility like Thompson/Holland and doesn't have this incredible offensive ceiling like Cade Cunningham still possesses.

Was Jaden Ivey the wrong pick? I don't think so. He was very high on most people's boards.

Move Ivey for someone like Cameron Johnson. Overpay for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope or Klay Thompson. Bring in Doug McDermott on a short deal above the minimum.

Cade Cunningham/Marcus Sasser
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope/Quentin Grimes
Simone Fontecchio/Ron Holland/Doug McDermott
Cameron Johnson/Ausar Thompson
Jalen Duren/Isaiah Stewart

Now the team is plum-full of shooting. You can get creative with Ausar/Stewart front-courts as Ausar is so flexible defensively.

Spot on. Problem is, there is still no coach...because reasons. So you build a roster, and then hire a coach?

Everything is upside-down and backwards in Detroit right now. If Langdon starts signing free agents without a coach, well, that's gonna be fun.

[bucknut]

Langdon needs to step out on that court as the best shooter in this organization now

Call me crazy but Detroit has some "dudes" imo and guys that are "Detroitish"..and aren't as far off as people think....Holland looks straight detroit. Rugged and tough. Isiah Stewart wants to fight LeBron. Tough. Jalen duren looks kinda Detroit to me.......ausar Thompson is a role player on a championship team imo ...really underrated

Ivey has been missed by his coach and in the dog house for some reason but physically has as best a first step in league.....

I agree it's too many raw non shooters pieces but they have pieces imo......and the coach was awful

telling imo Ivey left Purdue and edey took them to a final with a bunch of non NBA players.....that said I think he still has something for the NBA.

All I know is Holland looks straight detroit. That guy fits the bill when you see him interviewed. I think he is gonna pan out. This team has some pieces. Detroit is coming.