2023 NBA Draft

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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1481 » by 165bows » Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:31 pm

EvanZ wrote:
165bows wrote:I'm def a pro-Edey though guy though he obviously has questions marks. I think the comp is more Brook Lopez, who is able to be part of an above average defense. How much slower is he than Brook? I think that's the question worth figuring out there.



Did you notice that Brook Lopez is a stretch 5? He is not in the low post scoring like Edey (supposedly) would be. You know why? Because you don't want Brook Lopez running 94 feet every defensive possession.

Lopez had a full NBA career before he ever was a three point shooter.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1482 » by EvanZ » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:33 pm

165bows wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
165bows wrote:I'm def a pro-Edey though guy though he obviously has questions marks. I think the comp is more Brook Lopez, who is able to be part of an above average defense. How much slower is he than Brook? I think that's the question worth figuring out there.



Did you notice that Brook Lopez is a stretch 5? He is not in the low post scoring like Edey (supposedly) would be. You know why? Because you don't want Brook Lopez running 94 feet every defensive possession.

Lopez had a full NBA career before he ever was a three point shooter.


...and he was terrible. You must not be old enough to remember when he sucked. It wasn't until he started shooting that he had any real value.

Funny thing is you didn't actually address my concerns about Edey. Most likely because you know I'm right.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1483 » by EvanZ » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:34 pm

165bows wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
165bows wrote:I
At any rate, the Jokic comp is a bit of a strawman, no one is saying he's a generational number #1 pick. The 3-5 feet thing is a bit silly, as well really. The guy is a post-scorer.


There are no post scorers anymore outside of Jokic and Embiid. How do you envision Edey being this guy without footwork and ball handling ability? Just curious.

Not sure you don't see your criticisms get just as silly in the other direction honestly. There is post play still, but there is no Charles Barkley pound the ball into the floor while backing a guy down post play. His ballhandling is fine, though I assume you mean dribbling.


You don't seem to be able to explain how Edey will do all his scoring. Do you really think he can get to 30% usage on post entries?
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1484 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:45 pm

I'm not convinced anyone who would say Edey doesn't have footwork has ever seen him play.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1485 » by EvanZ » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:57 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:I'm not convinced anyone who would say Edey doesn't have footwork has ever seen him play.


So you think he has elite NBA level footwork in the post? I mean that's cool if you think that. You need to believe that to think he's going to make a living there. I just want people to be more clear and explicit in their arguments for it.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1486 » by EvanZ » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:59 pm

All I've seen in this thread on Edey's side is just one stat after another without explaining how his game translates. I'd like to see those same people explain to me how his game translates. If you can do that, then it's a real discussion. Don't just keep telling me "SIXTY PERCENT TRUE SHOOTING!!!"
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1487 » by 165bows » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:14 pm

EvanZ wrote:
165bows wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
There are no post scorers anymore outside of Jokic and Embiid. How do you envision Edey being this guy without footwork and ball handling ability? Just curious.

Not sure you don't see your criticisms get just as silly in the other direction honestly. There is post play still, but there is no Charles Barkley pound the ball into the floor while backing a guy down post play. His ballhandling is fine, though I assume you mean dribbling.


You don't seem to be able to explain how Edey will do all his scoring. Do you really think he can get to 30% usage on post entries?

You really seem to think I am that other guy :roll:
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1488 » by 165bows » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:19 pm

EvanZ wrote:
165bows wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Did you notice that Brook Lopez is a stretch 5? He is not in the low post scoring like Edey (supposedly) would be. You know why? Because you don't want Brook Lopez running 94 feet every defensive possession.

Lopez had a full NBA career before he ever was a three point shooter.


...and he was terrible. You must not be old enough to remember when he sucked. It wasn't until he started shooting that he had any real value.

Funny thing is you didn't actually address my concerns about Edey. Most likely because you know I'm right.

Bro it's not my job to address your concerns. Do you have real conversations or just snark "hur did I notice?" like an absolute child?

Every player has concerns to some degree, Edey's foot speed on D is his concern. OTOH, he is in another category as a player compared to Brook was in college.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1489 » by EvanZ » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:21 pm

165bows wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
165bows wrote:Lopez had a full NBA career before he ever was a three point shooter.


...and he was terrible. You must not be old enough to remember when he sucked. It wasn't until he started shooting that he had any real value.

Funny thing is you didn't actually address my concerns about Edey. Most likely because you know I'm right.

Bro it's not my job to address your concerns. Do you have real conversations or just snark "hur did I notice?" like an absolute child?



Oh, and here I thought we were literally discussing Edey. My bad! I didn't realize I was just supposed to accept whatever you say and move on. :lol:

Is there somewhere online where I can go that people actually want to discuss prospects?
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1490 » by 165bows » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:37 pm

EvanZ wrote:
165bows wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
...and he was terrible. You must not be old enough to remember when he sucked. It wasn't until he started shooting that he had any real value.

Funny thing is you didn't actually address my concerns about Edey. Most likely because you know I'm right.

Bro it's not my job to address your concerns. Do you have real conversations or just snark "hur did I notice?" like an absolute child?



Oh, and here I thought we were literally discussing Edey. My bad! I didn't realize I was just supposed to accept whatever you say and move on. :lol:

Is there somewhere online where I can go that people actually want to discuss prospects?

Bro literally try remembering which conversation you are having with who, might work out better for you.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1491 » by EvanZ » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:42 pm

Bro, you can feel free to move on. I'm here discussing Edey if you want. If you don't, cool. Bro.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1492 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:25 pm

I feel like the pro-Edey side has been a lot more forthcoming about why they think it'll work than vice versa.

If Edey does have the ball within 10 feet of the rim, which current NBA centers are going to be able to limit him one on one? There are certainly names, but a lot of those names aren't guys teams necessarily want to play. How about when he gets a non-center switched on him after screening action. How will defenses react when he then sinks toward the paint with a forward or guard attached to him?

To me, posting up went out of style because of the efficiency of it rather than the availability of it as an option for offenses. If Edey can be an outlier in terms of efficiency with those touches (thus the focus on TS%), then these "settled truths" about optimizing NBA offense starts to crumble. And my point here is not that we'll suddenly see some drastic league-wide shift (although I think there are some interesting league-wide currents at play), it's just that we're calling Edey an outlier for a reason.

And again, pure post-up touches would only be a piece of the pie. I don't see why he wouldn't be highly effective in a bunch of more modern offensive actions if coupled with heady passers. He will demand defensive attention in a way a long list of supposed lotto talents will not.

In a league obsessed with offensive efficiency, I think the potential upside is very clear.

Defensively is more of a mixed bag admittedly. But if someone isn't buying the offensive value, there's not really a point in even discussing the defense part.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1493 » by EvanZ » Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:24 am

The “pro-Edey” side has just repeated a bunch of stats. You asked how many centers will stop Edey within 10 feet? The answer is most of them because he needs to be within 3 feet of the basket to get an efficient shot. He’s not getting from 10 feet to 3 feet.


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2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1494 » by EvanZ » Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:34 am

Jahlil Okafor didn’t translate his offense to the NBA. Why not? He was incredibly efficient on high volume in college. And yet it didn’t work at the next level. And Okafor had way more skill than Edey. What works in college doesn’t always work in the league.


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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1495 » by babyjax13 » Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:40 am

TheSuzerain wrote:I feel like the pro-Edey side has been a lot more forthcoming about why they think it'll work than vice versa.

If Edey does have the ball within 10 feet of the rim, which current NBA centers are going to be able to limit him one on one? There are certainly names, but a lot of those names aren't guys teams necessarily want to play. How about when he gets a non-center switched on him after screening action. How will defenses react when he then sinks toward the paint with a forward or guard attached to him?

To me, posting up went out of style because of the efficiency of it rather than the availability of it as an option for offenses. If Edey can be an outlier in terms of efficiency with those touches (thus the focus on TS%), then these "settled truths" about optimizing NBA offense starts to crumble. And my point here is not that we'll suddenly see some drastic league-wide shift (although I think there are some interesting league-wide currents at play), it's just that we're calling Edey an outlier for a reason.

And again, pure post-up touches would only be a piece of the pie. I don't see why he wouldn't be highly effective in a bunch of more modern offensive actions if coupled with heady passers. He will demand defensive attention in a way a long list of supposed lotto talents will not.

In a league obsessed with offensive efficiency, I think the potential upside is very clear.

Defensively is more of a mixed bag admittedly. But if someone isn't buying the offensive value, there's not really a point in even discussing the defense part.

I think you also have to believe in the volume of those possessions he can get, just by way of what kind of stamina a 7-4 guy with his frame will have in the NBA. Is he capable of playing 20 minutes a night in a league that spreads the court as much as the NBA does? 24 minutes? Any more? If he's a 20-minute or less guy b/c of his frame that pretty much moves his upside to the back of the first round, at best. That's kind of where I'm at on him, is that he can't play as much as he is in college because the NBA is a different game.

Then we move to post-ups. He is going to have to be able to make good reads passing the ball, and it's not clear he can really do that. Otherwise, he is going to get stripped by help defenders all the time. NBA players are also pretty big, so I think they can deny position a bit better than the college players he is up against, so that will impact efficiency a bit.

I wouldn't be surprised if he carves out an NBA role, I'd be shocked if he became a starting caliber player who could go for extended (starter's) minutes. If you have really high confidence in that scoring efficiency translating on good volume when he is on the court, maybe he can be worth a flier at the end of the first round.

I'm not really there, I think it is a big leap to assume that a player archetype that hasn't functioned well at the NBA level b/c of how modern offenses and defenses work to create advantages. I'd definitely take a second-round flier on him, just like I thought it was worth doing so for Luka Garza, who has carved out a small niche in the NBA. But I also felt similarly about Daniel Oturu, recently, and he failed to do so.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1496 » by EvanZ » Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:52 am

He also has to play 82 games at least.


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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1497 » by babyjax13 » Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:22 am

EvanZ wrote:He also has to play 82 games at least.


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Or rather, a substantial amount of the season. Who was the last starting caliber nba player with his frame? Illgauskas, maybe?
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1498 » by EvanZ » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:14 am

It’s pretty crazy. Big Z was listed at 7’3” 260. Edey is 7’4” 305!


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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1499 » by The Moose » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:43 am

Anyone know much about Brandin Podziemski from Santa Clara? His production is top notch so far
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft 

Post#1500 » by Catchall » Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:02 am

I might be a big Dick guy.

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