Scoot Henderson

[JMAC3]

Another issue I'd raise here is about what exactly EPM is measuring with their "Rim %" metric. According to EPM his actual "Rim %" is 44%. But according to basketball-reference he is shooting 50% from 0-3 ft, which is what most people refer to as "at the rim". It sounds like EPM is making a more restrictive definition which most likely has an even smaller sample size. EPM doesn't actually give the number of attempts as far as I can tell. So it's hard to say if this metric is meaningful at all tbh.

Yes must be something wrong with the Metric and not your beloved Scoot lol

[The-Power]

Another issue I'd raise here is about what exactly EPM is measuring with their "Rim %" metric. According to EPM his actual "Rim %" is 44%. But according to basketball-reference he is shooting 50% from 0-3 ft, which is what most people refer to as "at the rim". It sounds like EPM is making a more restrictive definition which most likely has an even smaller sample size. EPM doesn't actually give the number of attempts as far as I can tell. So it's hard to say if this metric is meaningful at all tbh.

Rim% means within 5ft of the rim by EPM's definition. So it's actually a larger sample size because it takes into account more shots (and shots slightly further away than bbref, hence the lower percentage). I'd venture a guess that 50% within 3ft ranks similarly at the bottom if we used bbref's numbers. We really shouldn't be arguing how bad exactly Scoot has been as a finisher around the rim – we know it's been really bad. The question should be about what to expect going forward.

[EvanZ]

Another issue I'd raise here is about what exactly EPM is measuring with their "Rim %" metric. According to EPM his actual "Rim %" is 44%. But according to basketball-reference he is shooting 50% from 0-3 ft, which is what most people refer to as "at the rim". It sounds like EPM is making a more restrictive definition which most likely has an even smaller sample size. EPM doesn't actually give the number of attempts as far as I can tell. So it's hard to say if this metric is meaningful at all tbh.

Yes must be something wrong with the Metric and not your beloved Scoot lol

It's not about him being my beloved. I think everyone who has been through this thread can see it's more about you and Big J having some weird anti-Scoot fetish. I had him second in the draft and it was a very close call between him and BM for me. Every single post I had on Scoot looking back makes perfect sense. I literally said from Day 1 the dude reminds me of a Mike Conley. But sure...you have to justify your own narrative to keep taking laps here. For reasons.

[JMAC3]

Another issue I'd raise here is about what exactly EPM is measuring with their "Rim %" metric. According to EPM his actual "Rim %" is 44%. But according to basketball-reference he is shooting 50% from 0-3 ft, which is what most people refer to as "at the rim". It sounds like EPM is making a more restrictive definition which most likely has an even smaller sample size. EPM doesn't actually give the number of attempts as far as I can tell. So it's hard to say if this metric is meaningful at all tbh.

Yes must be something wrong with the Metric and not your beloved Scoot lol

It's not about him being my beloved. I think everyone who has been through this thread can see it's more about you and Big J having some weird anti-Scoot fetish. I had him second in the draft and it was a very close call between him and BM for me. Every single post I had on Scoot looking back makes perfect sense. I literally said from Day 1 the dude reminds me of a Mike Conley. But sure...you have to justify your own narrative to keep taking laps here. For reasons.

You are the one who is in scramble mode after I made a post highlighting his finishing with multiple data points for context. Instead of just admitting he is bad at finishing you start throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. First the stat is broken, when that doesn't work you then flip to trying to make the conversation personal, hence why you try to mention me and BigJ in every other post like the problem is posters and not just the fact that Scoot isn't good right now.

I am here to post about prospects, not try to sit here and call out posters.

[EvanZ]

JMAC, bro, brosephus…do you really think I didn’t know about his finishing issues? I mean do you think you’re Geraldo Rivera breaking news here? LMAO you are an absolute piece of work my friend. Keep up the good fight bro.

[EvanZ]

Is there another Scoot Henderson in the league that people are talking about? Because this is wildly inaccurate description of the Scoot Henderson I've seen.

Say it is not the explosiveness issue. In your opinion why is he in the bottom 2% in shooting percentage at the rim?

Some guys never become good finishers regardless of athleticism. Just lack of touch or coordination through contact. But like...if you can't see the guy is explosive at some point what are we even doing here. We all get that he's not as explosive as Ja. But this is getting old. You literally see him miss finishes with his hand a few inches from the basket. It's not that he can't get there. It's what he does with it when he gets there that's the issue. Can he fix it? I don't know. Let's give him time to figure it out though.

Here I am literally yesterday disagreeing that he has issues finishing at the rim. Oh wait. But I am agreeing. I guess I have to literally quote myself to show how often JMAC has issues telling the truth.

[EvanZ]

Also noticed Scoot is ahead of FVV on that EPM metric. Does that mean FVV is a bust?

[JMAC3]

Say it is not the explosiveness issue. In your opinion why is he in the bottom 2% in shooting percentage at the rim?

Some guys never become good finishers regardless of athleticism. Just lack of touch or coordination through contact. But like...if you can't see the guy is explosive at some point what are we even doing here. We all get that he's not as explosive as Ja. But this is getting old. You literally see him miss finishes with his hand a few inches from the basket. It's not that he can't get there. It's what he does with it when he gets there that's the issue. Can he fix it? I don't know. Let's give him time to figure it out though.

Here I am literally yesterday disagreeing that he has issues finishing at the rim. Oh wait. But I am agreeing. I guess I have to literally quote myself to show how often JMAC has issues telling the truth.

I don't think you are grasping how bad he is at finishing though. He is 2% epm at the rim. You trying to brush it off like "Give him time"... "You know who else are good finishers? Steph and Kyrie"

Anytime someone brings a concern backed by stats you act like we are the bad guys, but it is you who is making up excuse after excuse.

[JMAC3]

Also noticed Scoot is ahead of FVV on that EPM metric. Does that mean FVV is a bust?

You really want to make this elementary?

FVV
Off EPM - 90%
Def EPM -82%
Overall EPM- 93%
EW - 94%
Rim% -1%
Mid% - 74%
3pt% - 58%

Scoot
Off EPM - 27%
Def EPM -3%
Overall EPM -9%
EW - 1%
Rim% -2%
Mid% - 16%
3pt%- 16%

Yes, clearly they are equally as bad as total players. We should stop worrying about Scoot finishing, he is the exact same as FVV as a player top to bottom. Great call lol

[EvanZ]

Also noticed Scoot is ahead of FVV on that EPM metric. Does that mean FVV is a bust?

You really want to make this elementary?

FVV
Off EPM - 90%
Def EPM -82%
Overall EPM- 93%
EW - 94%
Rim% -1%
Mid% - 74%
3pt% - 58%

Scoot
Off EPM - 27%
Def EPM -3%
Overall EPM -9%
EW - 1%
Rim% -2%
Mid% - 16%
3pt%- 16%

Yes, clearly they are equally as bad as total players. We should stop worrying about Scoot finishing, he is the exact same as FVV as a player top to bottom. Great call lol

So why did you cherry pick this one stat?

It seemed to me and others you were trying to argue that his Rim % indicated a lack of explosiveness. Do you actually still believe that?

[EvanZ]

Some guys never become good finishers regardless of athleticism. Just lack of touch or coordination through contact. But like...if you can't see the guy is explosive at some point what are we even doing here. We all get that he's not as explosive as Ja. But this is getting old. You literally see him miss finishes with his hand a few inches from the basket. It's not that he can't get there. It's what he does with it when he gets there that's the issue. Can he fix it? I don't know. Let's give him time to figure it out though.

Here I am literally yesterday disagreeing that he has issues finishing at the rim. Oh wait. But I am agreeing. I guess I have to literally quote myself to show how often JMAC has issues telling the truth.

I don't think you are grasping how bad he is at finishing though. He is 2% epm at the rim. You trying to brush it off like "Give him time"... "You know who else are good finishers? Steph and Kyrie"

Anytime someone brings a concern backed by stats you act like we are the bad guys, but it is you who is making up excuse after excuse.

I grasp that he is bad. I also grasp that FVV is bad. I'm just wondering why you are fixated on this one stat right now. It's weird.

[JMAC3]

Here I am literally yesterday disagreeing that he has issues finishing at the rim. Oh wait. But I am agreeing. I guess I have to literally quote myself to show how often JMAC has issues telling the truth.

I don't think you are grasping how bad he is at finishing though. He is 2% epm at the rim. You trying to brush it off like "Give him time"... "You know who else are good finishers? Steph and Kyrie"

Anytime someone brings a concern backed by stats you act like we are the bad guys, but it is you who is making up excuse after excuse.

I grasp that he is bad. I also grasp that FVV is bad. I'm just wondering why you are fixated on this one stat right now. It's weird.

Are you serious? Did you look at the stats I posted? Scoot is bad top to bottom in every category lol.
But yes he is exceptionally bad at rim finishing which is why I have singled it out to discuss.
Whereas FVV is very good in all but 1 category. Maybe you are trolling me or maybe you don't understand how to read the stats.

[EvanZ]

I don't think you are grasping how bad he is at finishing though. He is 2% epm at the rim. You trying to brush it off like "Give him time"... "You know who else are good finishers? Steph and Kyrie"

Anytime someone brings a concern backed by stats you act like we are the bad guys, but it is you who is making up excuse after excuse.

I grasp that he is bad. I also grasp that FVV is bad. I'm just wondering why you are fixated on this one stat right now. It's weird.

Are you serious? Did you look at the stats I posted? Scoot is bad top to bottom in every category lol.
But yes he is exceptionally bad at rim finishing which is why I have singled it out to discuss.
Whereas FVV is very good in all but 1 category. Maybe you are trolling me or maybe you don't understand how to read the stats.

Why? Why are you so concerned with rim finishing over all the other things? I'm just honestly trying to understand.

[Waynearchetype]

Scoots first 6 games were so historically bad its kind of a miracle he's dragged his shooting percentage back up. Which is kind of a problem looking at a bunch of advanced stats over a rookies season. You don't get to see the growth that way.

What's interesting about the rim% is that Scoot isn't the only Blazer struggling. Between last season and this Shaedon Sharpe dropped 15%(!). Theres been just a massive drop across the board for the Blazers, which probably speaks to how teams are defending them (and maybe a bit about where Ayton stands on offense).

Anyways, i think that's all i'm going to engage in this convo. This thread is exceptionally weird even for usual draft board threads about a rookie who is 4th in scoring, 1st in assists, and like teens in rebounds. Yeah, the efficiency is concerning, but taking your eyes off catch-all "advanced stats" and even looking at gamelogs or watching some games will show you the huge strides he's made over his short season so far. It just kinda feels like some folks decided to make Scoot hating their personality, which is a bit deranged.

[JMAC3]

Scoots first 6 games were so historically bad its kind of a miracle he's dragged his shooting percentage back up. Which is kind of a problem looking at a bunch of advanced stats over a rookies season. You don't get to see the growth that way.

What's interesting about the rim% is that Scoot isn't the only Blazer struggling. Between last season and this Shaedon Sharpe dropped 15%(!). Theres been just a massive drop across the board for the Blazers, which probably speaks to how teams are defending them (and maybe a bit about where Ayton stands on offense).

Anyways, i think that's all i'm going to engage in this convo. This thread is exceptionally weird even for usual draft board threads about a rookie who is 4th in scoring, 1st in assists, and like teens in rebounds. Yeah, the efficiency is concerning, but taking your eyes off catch-all "advanced stats" and even looking at gamelogs or watching some games will show you the huge strides he's made over his short season so far. It just kinda feels like some folks decided to make Scoot hating their personality, which is a bit deranged.

Nothing like looking at raw numbers exclusively to judge a guy lol. Mudiay same age, avg same ppg, 1st in assists, very similar shooting profiles.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=mudiaem01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2016&player_id2=hendesc01&p2yrfrom=2024&p2yrto=2024

[Waynearchetype]

Scoots first 6 games were so historically bad its kind of a miracle he's dragged his shooting percentage back up. Which is kind of a problem looking at a bunch of advanced stats over a rookies season. You don't get to see the growth that way.

What's interesting about the rim% is that Scoot isn't the only Blazer struggling. Between last season and this Shaedon Sharpe dropped 15%(!). Theres been just a massive drop across the board for the Blazers, which probably speaks to how teams are defending them (and maybe a bit about where Ayton stands on offense).

Anyways, i think that's all i'm going to engage in this convo. This thread is exceptionally weird even for usual draft board threads about a rookie who is 4th in scoring, 1st in assists, and like teens in rebounds. Yeah, the efficiency is concerning, but taking your eyes off catch-all "advanced stats" and even looking at gamelogs or watching some games will show you the huge strides he's made over his short season so far. It just kinda feels like some folks decided to make Scoot hating their personality, which is a bit deranged.

Nothing like looking at raw numbers exclusively to judge a guy lol. Mudiay same age, avg same ppg, 1st in assists, very similar shooting profiles.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=mudiaem01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2016&player_id2=hendesc01&p2yrfrom=2024&p2yrto=2024

Looking at raw numbers exclusively to judge a guy? Brother I regret to inform you I'm a blazer fan and have watched all our miserable games this year. It's rough out here. You know Mudiay was 7th in ROY rankings that year? You know Okafor came out highly rated over Myles Turner, and Kristop was far more tantalizing a rookie than Jokic? What does that all mean? Absolutely nothing.

[JMAC3]

Scoots first 6 games were so historically bad its kind of a miracle he's dragged his shooting percentage back up. Which is kind of a problem looking at a bunch of advanced stats over a rookies season. You don't get to see the growth that way.

What's interesting about the rim% is that Scoot isn't the only Blazer struggling. Between last season and this Shaedon Sharpe dropped 15%(!). Theres been just a massive drop across the board for the Blazers, which probably speaks to how teams are defending them (and maybe a bit about where Ayton stands on offense).

Anyways, i think that's all i'm going to engage in this convo. This thread is exceptionally weird even for usual draft board threads about a rookie who is 4th in scoring, 1st in assists, and like teens in rebounds. Yeah, the efficiency is concerning, but taking your eyes off catch-all "advanced stats" and even looking at gamelogs or watching some games will show you the huge strides he's made over his short season so far. It just kinda feels like some folks decided to make Scoot hating their personality, which is a bit deranged.

Nothing like looking at raw numbers exclusively to judge a guy lol. Mudiay same age, avg same ppg, 1st in assists, very similar shooting profiles.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=mudiaem01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2016&player_id2=hendesc01&p2yrfrom=2024&p2yrto=2024

Looking at raw numbers exclusively to judge a guy? Brother I regret to inform you I'm a blazer fan and have watched all our miserable games this year. It's rough out here. You know Mudiay was 7th in ROY rankings that year? You know Okafor came out highly rated over Myles Turner, and Kristop was far more tantalizing a rookie than Jokic? What does that all mean? Absolutely nothing.

Yes Okafor and Mudiay were force fed mins and touches because they were high picks and raw numbers looked great. Just like... you guessed it.

[JMAC3]

Scoots first 6 games were so historically bad its kind of a miracle he's dragged his shooting percentage back up. Which is kind of a problem looking at a bunch of advanced stats over a rookies season. You don't get to see the growth that way.

What's interesting about the rim% is that Scoot isn't the only Blazer struggling. Between last season and this Shaedon Sharpe dropped 15%(!). Theres been just a massive drop across the board for the Blazers, which probably speaks to how teams are defending them (and maybe a bit about where Ayton stands on offense).

Anyways, i think that's all i'm going to engage in this convo. This thread is exceptionally weird even for usual draft board threads about a rookie who is 4th in scoring, 1st in assists, and like teens in rebounds. Yeah, the efficiency is concerning, but taking your eyes off catch-all "advanced stats" and even looking at gamelogs or watching some games will show you the huge strides he's made over his short season so far. It just kinda feels like some folks decided to make Scoot hating their personality, which is a bit deranged.

If you exclude the first 6 games his fg% for the season jumps from 37.5% to 37.9%.
Scoring average went up 0.6 ppg if you exclude those games.
Assists, mins, 3pm per game, turnovers, +/-, rpg are basically all the same.

It really isn't much different with or without it.

[zzaj]

Lol at this thread...

In the last say 25 years, how many 19 year old rookies put up star-level stats? Luka? Kyrie? who else?

How many 20 year old rookies (since Scoot is like 3 weeks past 20)? Shaq, Zion, Lebron, Duncan? Who else? Guys like oh I don't know, Jordan, Dirk, KG, Tatum, Harden, Tmac, Kobe, Kawhi...either didn't put up star numbers or were a year or two older.

People can project all they want, but until we've seen Scoot playing at 21-22 years old it isn't going to mean much. 19 year old rookies don't put up good numbers. 20 year old rookies typically don't either. Age matters.

Another thing that matters? Progress. Scoot has progressed, if even slightly. He leads the rookie class in assists and hockey assists and he's getting to the foul line at a good rate. Those are things to build on.

I read somewhere that Scoot at this point is statistically very close to Kemba, and Kemba was 2 years older. If the Blazers get a Kemba out of Scoot, they should call themselves fortunate. Personally, the rest of the year the thing I'm watching for is his ability to set up Ayton. Ayton isn't going anywhere for a long while and the Blazers desperately need a player actively trying to involve him in the offense.

[JMAC3]

Lol at this thread...

In the last say 25 years, how many 19 year old rookies put up star-level stats? Luka? Kyrie? who else?

How many 20 year old rookies (since Scoot is like 3 weeks past 20)? Shaq, Zion, Lebron, Duncan? Who else? Guys like oh I don't know, Jordan, Dirk, KG, Tatum, Harden, Tmac, Kobe, Kawhi...either didn't put up star numbers or were a year or two older.

I can’t take this post serious because you obviously didn’t take the time to actually look at players rookie years. Michael Jordan wasn’t good as a rookie? Just a measly 28 ppg and won RoY lol