D'angelo Russell

[Zeitgeister]

Manu has great length 6'11 wingspan for a guard. Brandon Roy has a exceptional vertical leap 40 plus. Russell doesn't have the length or the athleticism of the two. Russell also isn't as quick, long or explosive as Penny Hardaway.


I see a better Monte Ellis type combo guard at the next level. An allstar caliber Bradley Beal is a good comparison too.

notice he said SKILLSET. He never said anything about height, length, or athleticism. SKILLSET wise the comp makes some sense.

How does the Brad Beal comp work?

Brad Beal had an NBA body coming into the league and a more explosive leaper (39").
It's hard to find a comp for him that hasn't busted going by size and athleticism (Rivers, McCollum, Turner...in that mold).

While it's tempting to say you might get a 6'5" PG, RPM shows the top 3 PGs are all 6'1" and under, it's just not that big of an advantage because your sacrificing foot speed , unless you have elite wingspan like Wall does, then it can pay dividends..

None of those comps make any sense, but also it's difficult to find a freshman guard that has succeeded as well as he has.

[Marcus]

so the more i watch D.Russ the less i see defense and finishing being a huge issue for him at in the league. Its starting to look like a lot of the criticisms (outside of athleticism) were blips more so than factual issues or have been improved on enough to no longer make them issues.

Defensively he moves well, close outs could use work but he recovers well enough. he also does a good job floating towards the ball on defense and putting himself in a position to get a poke or a sneaky block or shot contest which when you watch OSU games explains his rebounding numbers despite being a guard without any real explosion off the floor.

The finishing i think he's made the adjustments and is using those flips and floaters he has in his arsenal more effectively to alleviate the resistance at the cup. His shot selection looks questionable at times but he knows how much room he needs and how to get his looks off.

I think the struggles early were him finding his groove and niche on this team. Now he's got it and the kid is showing that he can just flat out play. Next to Jah probably my favorite college kid to watch play right now.

[MalonesElbows]

notice he said SKILLSET. He never said anything about height, length, or athleticism. SKILLSET wise the comp makes some sense.

How does the Brad Beal comp work?

Brad Beal had an NBA body coming into the league and a more explosive leaper (39").
It's hard to find a comp for him that hasn't busted going by size and athleticism (Rivers, McCollum, Turner...in that mold).

While it's tempting to say you might get a 6'5" PG, RPM shows the top 3 PGs are all 6'1" and under, it's just not that big of an advantage because your sacrificing foot speed , unless you have elite wingspan like Wall does, then it can pay dividends..

None of those comps make any sense, but also it's difficult to find a freshman guard that has succeeded as well as he has.

If you want to not limit the position to guard though, you can find players with similar production (PER) and impact that did not pan out in the NBA. Cody Zeller, Jared Sullinger, Doug McDermott , Tyler Hansborough were all around 30 PER players in their freshman seasons on highly successful teams. Three out of those four had seemingly great skillsets. None have made much noise in the NBA. The reason? Size and athleticism.

[Marcus]

Brad Beal had an NBA body coming into the league and a more explosive leaper (39").
It's hard to find a comp for him that hasn't busted going by size and athleticism (Rivers, McCollum, Turner...in that mold).

While it's tempting to say you might get a 6'5" PG, RPM shows the top 3 PGs are all 6'1" and under, it's just not that big of an advantage because your sacrificing foot speed , unless you have elite wingspan like Wall does, then it can pay dividends..

None of those comps make any sense, but also it's difficult to find a freshman guard that has succeeded as well as he has.

If you want to not limit the position to guard though, you can find players with similar production (PER) and impact that did not pan out in the NBA. Cody Zeller, Jared Sullinger, Doug McDermott , Tyler Hansborough were all around 30 PER players in their freshman seasons on highly successful teams. Three out of those four had seemingly great skillsets. None have made much noise in the NBA. The reason? Size and athleticism.

McBuckets hasn't had consistent minutes + injuries on a finals contender with a strong core with or without him. not to mention its his ROOKIE SEASON.

Still too early to tell on Cody. showed flashes end of last year, this year during the summer, and in bits and pieces this season (including a 21 and 8 night on 10-11 from the field last night)

you're flat out disrespecting J Sully. the lack of lift does hurt his game. Dude is more than solid though. Hits the boards, gets after it on defense, shoots too many jumpers though he still is capable in that regard as well. bangs on the block and gives you 14 a night.

Psycho T i take it is the not so skilled guy on the list was never expected to be more than what he is and thats a high energy guy, he's actually lasted longer than i thought he would.

[Zeitgeister]

Brad Beal had an NBA body coming into the league and a more explosive leaper (39").
It's hard to find a comp for him that hasn't busted going by size and athleticism (Rivers, McCollum, Turner...in that mold).

While it's tempting to say you might get a 6'5" PG, RPM shows the top 3 PGs are all 6'1" and under, it's just not that big of an advantage because your sacrificing foot speed , unless you have elite wingspan like Wall does, then it can pay dividends..

None of those comps make any sense, but also it's difficult to find a freshman guard that has succeeded as well as he has.

If you want to not limit the position to guard though, you can find players with similar production (PER) and impact that did not pan out in the NBA. Cody Zeller, Jared Sullinger, Doug McDermott , Tyler Hansborough were all around 30 PER players in their freshman seasons on highly successful teams. Three out of those four had seemingly great skillsets. None have made much noise in the NBA. The reason? Size and athleticism.

McDermott wasn't in Russell's stratosphere as a freshman. Not close, really. Not to mention, he's hardly had any playing time yet, on a deep team. That really doesn't work in favor of your point.

Cody Zeller is a 7 footer, not really comparable. Zeller showed talent as a big man scorer, didn't really excel in other areas. Russell excels as a scorer, passer and rebounder.

Sullinger is producing in the NBA, and he's 22 and only in his 3rd season.

Hansborough is not at all comparable.

None of the guys you mentioned showed the versatility that Russell has. Also, as a bigger guy it's easier to bully your way against smaller competition in college.

[MalonesElbows]

None of those comps make any sense, but also it's difficult to find a freshman guard that has succeeded as well as he has.

If you want to not limit the position to guard though, you can find players with similar production (PER) and impact that did not pan out in the NBA. Cody Zeller, Jared Sullinger, Doug McDermott , Tyler Hansborough were all around 30 PER players in their freshman seasons on highly successful teams. Three out of those four had seemingly great skillsets. None have made much noise in the NBA. The reason? Size and athleticism.

McDermott wasn't in Russell's stratosphere as a freshman. Not close, really. Not to mention, he's hardly had any playing time yet, on a deep team. That really doesn't work in favor of your point.

Cody Zeller is a 7 footer, not really comparable. Zeller showed talent as a big man scorer, didn't really excel in other areas. Russell excels as a scorer, passer and rebounder.

Sullinger is producing in the NBA, and he's 22 and only in his 3rd season.

Hansborough is not at all comparable.

None of the guys you mentioned showed the versatility that Russell has. Also, as a bigger guy it's easier to bully your way against smaller competition in college.

But he is elite at none of them in the NBA. The jack of all trades players usually are frowned upon compared to a player who is elite at one thing, so that argument could work against him. So Zeller at .665 TS was absolutely an elite scorer as a freshman. In the NBA he's been flattened to .513 so far (getting better though).

[Marcus]

If you want to not limit the position to guard though, you can find players with similar production (PER) and impact that did not pan out in the NBA. Cody Zeller, Jared Sullinger, Doug McDermott , Tyler Hansborough were all around 30 PER players in their freshman seasons on highly successful teams. Three out of those four had seemingly great skillsets. None have made much noise in the NBA. The reason? Size and athleticism.

McDermott wasn't in Russell's stratosphere as a freshman. Not close, really. Not to mention, he's hardly had any playing time yet, on a deep team. That really doesn't work in favor of your point.

Cody Zeller is a 7 footer, not really comparable. Zeller showed talent as a big man scorer, didn't really excel in other areas. Russell excels as a scorer, passer and rebounder.

Sullinger is producing in the NBA, and he's 22 and only in his 3rd season.

Hansborough is not at all comparable.

None of the guys you mentioned showed the versatility that Russell has. Also, as a bigger guy it's easier to bully your way against smaller competition in college.

But he is elite at none of them in the NBA. The jack of all trades players usually are frowned upon compared to a player who is elite at one thing, so that argument could work against him. So Zeller at .665 TS was absolutely an elite scorer as a freshman. In the NBA he's been flattened to .513 so far (getting better though).

you don't see D. Russ as potentially an elite level shooter and passer coming into the league?

[E-Balla]

Just to butt in Doc has the potential to be an elite scorer. The reason unskilled guards can't produce like this is that they aren't bigger than everyone they play. This kid with his lightning fast release is already a great shooter, he has great handles, and he's an elite passer. My only issue with him is that he can't finish with his right hand well.

[Ruzious]

Brad Beal had an NBA body coming into the league and a more explosive leaper (39").
It's hard to find a comp for him that hasn't busted going by size and athleticism (Rivers, McCollum, Turner...in that mold).

While it's tempting to say you might get a 6'5" PG, RPM shows the top 3 PGs are all 6'1" and under, it's just not that big of an advantage because your sacrificing foot speed , unless you have elite wingspan like Wall does, then it can pay dividends..

None of those comps make any sense, but also it's difficult to find a freshman guard that has succeeded as well as he has.

If you want to not limit the position to guard though, you can find players with similar production (PER) and impact that did not pan out in the NBA. Cody Zeller, Jared Sullinger, Doug McDermott , Tyler Hansborough were all around 30 PER players in their freshman seasons on highly successful teams. Three out of those four had seemingly great skillsets. None have made much noise in the NBA. The reason? Size and athleticism.

To add on to what others have said - Hansbrough was a 20 year old frosh, Zeller will come around just like Tyler has, Sullinger's a good player, and McDermott had a 23.5 PER and hasn't really gotten a shot when healthy, yet.

[BoutPractice]

But he is elite at none of them in the NBA. The jack of all trades players usually are frowned upon compared to a player who is elite at one thing, so that argument could work against him. So Zeller at .665 TS was absolutely an elite scorer as a freshman. In the NBA he's been flattened to .513 so far (getting better though).

You could also make the case that D'Angelo Russell is not a "jack of all trades", but actually elite at multiple areas of the game.

You can make college stats say lots of things, for example you could point out that at this point his 3P% is superior to Stephen Curry's, his assists per game are superior to Rajon Rondo's freshman averages, and his rebounds per game superior to Jason Kidd's.

[MalonesElbows]

But he is elite at none of them in the NBA. The jack of all trades players usually are frowned upon compared to a player who is elite at one thing, so that argument could work against him. So Zeller at .665 TS was absolutely an elite scorer as a freshman. In the NBA he's been flattened to .513 so far (getting better though).

You could also make the case that D'Angelo Russell is not a "jack of all trades", but actually elite at multiple areas of the game.

You can make college stats say lots of things, for example you could point out that at this point his 3P% is superior to Stephen Curry's, his assists per game are superior to Rajon Rondo's freshman averages, and his rebounds per game superior to Jason Kidd's.

Absolutely, since I can't find a comparison for him though that makes me concerned. That and the big 10 is pretty weak sauce this year.

[Marcus]

since I can't find a comparison for him though that makes me concerned.

why MUST you have a comparison for him? why not just enjoy the kid's game and take him for what he is? either you like what you see on the court or you don't. I don't understand the NEED for comps. some guys are just unique in how they play the game.

[Zeitgeister]

But he is elite at none of them in the NBA. The jack of all trades players usually are frowned upon compared to a player who is elite at one thing, so that argument could work against him. So Zeller at .665 TS was absolutely an elite scorer as a freshman. In the NBA he's been flattened to .513 so far (getting better though).

You could also make the case that D'Angelo Russell is not a "jack of all trades", but actually elite at multiple areas of the game.

You can make college stats say lots of things, for example you could point out that at this point his 3P% is superior to Stephen Curry's, his assists per game are superior to Rajon Rondo's freshman averages, and his rebounds per game superior to Jason Kidd's.

Absolutely, since I can't find a comparison for him though that makes me concerned. That and the big 10 is pretty weak sauce this year.

Perhaps you should re-evaluate why you cannot find a comparison for him. Hint: It's the opposite of what you are currently thinking.

[E-Balla]

But he is elite at none of them in the NBA. The jack of all trades players usually are frowned upon compared to a player who is elite at one thing, so that argument could work against him. So Zeller at .665 TS was absolutely an elite scorer as a freshman. In the NBA he's been flattened to .513 so far (getting better though).

You could also make the case that D'Angelo Russell is not a "jack of all trades", but actually elite at multiple areas of the game.

You can make college stats say lots of things, for example you could point out that at this point his 3P% is superior to Stephen Curry's, his assists per game are superior to Rajon Rondo's freshman averages, and his rebounds per game superior to Jason Kidd's.

Absolutely, since I can't find a comparison for him though that makes me concerned. That and the big 10 is pretty weak sauce this year.

If you can't find a comparison for a player because he is completely dusting the standards for his position that's always a good thing.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Brad Beal had an NBA body coming into the league and a more explosive leaper (39").
It's hard to find a comp for him that hasn't busted going by size and athleticism (Rivers, McCollum, Turner...in that mold).

While it's tempting to say you might get a 6'5" PG, RPM shows the top 3 PGs are all 6'1" and under, it's just not that big of an advantage because your sacrificing foot speed , unless you have elite wingspan like Wall does, then it can pay dividends..

Lol, if we're going to ignore actual basketball talent, by size and athleticism, Vince Carter is identical to James White.

[sixerswillrule]

If you want to not limit the position to guard though, you can find players with similar production (PER) and impact that did not pan out in the NBA. Cody Zeller, Jared Sullinger, Doug McDermott , Tyler Hansborough were all around 30 PER players in their freshman seasons on highly successful teams. Three out of those four had seemingly great skillsets. None have made much noise in the NBA. The reason? Size and athleticism.

Concerns are spot on, this is Russell's scouting report on nbadraft.net:
"Far below NBA standard in regard to explosivenes and athleticism ... At 6-2, he's extremely small for the NBA shooting guard position, and it will likely keep him from being much of a defender at the next level"

Sorry, my fault, that's actually Stephen Curry's scouting report.

[MalonesElbows]

You could also make the case that D'Angelo Russell is not a "jack of all trades", but actually elite at multiple areas of the game.

You can make college stats say lots of things, for example you could point out that at this point his 3P% is superior to Stephen Curry's, his assists per game are superior to Rajon Rondo's freshman averages, and his rebounds per game superior to Jason Kidd's.

Absolutely, since I can't find a comparison for him though that makes me concerned. That and the big 10 is pretty weak sauce this year.

If you can't find a comparison for a player because he is completely dusting the standards for his position that's always a good thing.

since I can't find a comparison for him though that makes me concerned.

why MUST you have a comparison for him? why not just enjoy the kid's game and take him for what he is? either you like what you see on the court or you don't. I don't understand the NEED for comps. some guys are just unique in how they play the game.

No comparison means he would have to be a once in a generation player (like Curry). If you want to deduce that from playing a cupcake big 10, more power to you. Here are the freshman stats of a player that "dusted" Russell's stats and he busted in the NBA. The recurring theme, size and athleticism, mostly did him in. +1 to first person name him.

26.2 PPG
12.4 RPG
1.6 BPG
38.9 PER

[Zeitgeister]

LOL I notice that you purposely left out Michael Beasley's name from those stats. Why is that? Is it because you know it's a ridiculous comparison to begin with? Beasley had a physical and size advantage over his competition. Beasley was able to be a very effective power forward in college, but when the opponents got a lot bigger he found out he has a power forward game in a small forward's body. Not to mention he's had all kinds of issues applying himself, off the court issues etc.

It doesn't mean that Russell is a once in a generation player, but it does mean that he likely has a very high floor and will have a successful career. That is what they mean, in relation to his physical tools. If he had elite physical tools and was doing the same thing or more than an argument could be made that he's a generational talent.

I wouldn't say Curry is a generational talent either. His shooting ability is generational, but I'm not ready to consider him a generational talent like a Lebron or Davis are.

[E-Balla]

Beasley was a headcase and we all knew it. Its the reason he wasn't picked first. He also had a 17 PER as a rookie so talent most definitely wasn't why he failed but it was more of everything else.

[Marcus]

No comparison means he would have to be a once in a generation player (like Curry).

or it could just mean he doesn't have a comp. it happens from time to time. doesn't make or break a player. just means they have a unique combination.

he's stated he patterns his game after Ginobli and people that have watched him play can clearly see a Steph Curry type influence to his style. doesn't mean he compares to those players just means he emulates. take it for what its worth.