Ben Simmons

No-Man · Post #161 » by **No-Man** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:35 pm

The issue with Simmons is quite simple, is a guy like him, who might not have the traits of an elite efficient scorer, going to adjust well to be a role player if he doesnt reach his ceiling? will he be ball dominant and a ball stopper or a guy that enhaces the movement of the ball like Diaw?
It is tricky, I think he does have the alpha mentality of been the guy, I dont know if that is a good thing, his game resembles Blake Griffin with less athleticism and a more advanced off-the-ball, cutting, passing game, but he seems to be, like Parker did back in the day, turning more and more into an alpha guy that wants the ball and his spots and try to score, I loved the Simmons that looked like Diaw out there, making it simple, even if that would not warrant a 1st overall selection, dunno if I'd like the other guy as much.
I think this 1st pick hype is wrong for him honestly.

Von Bismarck · Post #162 » by **Von Bismarck** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:57 pm

crazy_me_87 wrote:Shooting is the easiest to get better at.

Get serious.

splendidham · Post #163 » by **splendidham** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:24 pm

Ben has as good a chance of developing his shooting as Ingram has of developing his body to something not resembling a stick. Both can do it but it'll take work. From what I've seen its progressing slowly with both of them.
As for Ben being to ball dominant, as far as I recall all I heard for a number of years was he needed to develop that mentality because he was almost too much of a team player. I think he has what it takes to be the first pick and more than enough potential, just as I think any of Ingram or Skal could be too. Plenty of analysts and GMs seem to agree too

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crazy_me_87 · Post #164 » by **crazy_me_87** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:18 pm

Von Bismarck wrote:
crazy_me_87 wrote:Shooting is the easiest to get better at.

Get serious.

I am.

Look at the weaknesses a young Prospect can have:

Lack of Athletism: only a small margin to get better at usually those kids are what they are athletically period
Lack of Size: cant fix that if you dont have a huge grow spurt between 19 and 21(happens but out of controll and rare)
A lazy work ethic: cant fix that if the player isnt willing to
Bad feel for the Game/BB IQ: You rarley see anyone get better at this exept for the expected improvement from experience you gain with years in the NBA. But still its mostly "instinct" something those gifted players seem to be born with.
A broken Jumpshot: Thats bad. You could try to relearn how to shoot later but i cant remember who really became a good shooter with a really broken Shot
A Inconsistent but not broken Jumpshot: quite common and is totally fixable with hard work and experience.

Ben Simmons falls into the "Inconsistent but not broken jumpshot" category. Out of all failings he could have he has the 1 that is the easiest to improve compared to those other things. It will requiere him to work hard at it but why should i doubt that he will do that?

He is a good athlete for his size(elite if his vertical of 41' is confirmed at the combine). Has good handling,is quicker than most guys his height. Has a wide frame that supports him getting alot stronger. He is unstoppable in transistion(not my opinion multiple scouts have called him "devestating in transition"). Has an amazing feel for the Game and a really great BB IQ. Is an amazing passer for his size.

The only knocks on him i can take seriously are

1. His jumper is maybe even a bit below what Lebrons jumper was before entering the NBA

2. He is not Lebron athletically. He looks slow compared to Lebron people want to see in him. But between 6'7 and above ANYBODY looks slow compared to Lebron even at age 30.

But those things are not breaking him as one of the best prospects in recent years.

Lebron had a comparable Jumpshot and look at him now. The Playoff run doesnt mean he has "lost" his Jumper. He was exhausted because he had to be Oscar Robertson for the Cavs. Had no legs under his Jumper because he was tired. In the RS he Shot 49/35 wich is about his career average. I see no reason why Ben cant develop into a 35% threepoint Shooter at some point.
He wont shoot like Durant but he doesnt has to. Just like Lebron his shot just has to be barley good enough to keep defenses honest. He doesnt has to be a great shooter to be great.

And the second thing. Well yeah he is not nearly the athlete Lebron was at the age. Nobody is. But people are underrating his athletism because they get a distorted view because hes been compared to Lebron. Objectivly he is faster than anybody his size he played against so far so he will be at least ok in the NBA. And he reportetly has a 41' Vertical which would indicate him beeing even elite athletically for a 6'10 Guy.

He wont be Lebron. But I can see Simmons be to Lebron what Kobe was/is for MJ. "The next best version". "Lebron light" "poor mans Lebron".

They are alot of simmilarities. Ben isnt as good as Lebron but is the first Wing since Lebron with that combination of Size,Athletism and BBIQ and Passing.

as i said before i can see him having a great Career even HOF. Not Top 5 All time like Lebron of course but HOF still.

And beware comparing him to Lebron is only stylistically not talent Level wise.!!!!!!

crazy_me_87 · Post #165 » by **crazy_me_87** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:36 pm

A nice quote from draftexpress to anybody who thinks hes a bad sense tweener:

"DraftExpress: Ben Simmons doing a great job defending the much shorter Allonzo Trier (maybe 6-4). Helps ease any lingering concerns about tweener status.
2014-07-18 09:49:04

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3iWrItlvM
http://www.draftexpress.com
"

Post #166 » by **165bows** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:03 pm

crazy_me_87 wrote:
Von Bismarck wrote:
crazy_me_87 wrote:Shooting is the easiest to get better at.

Get serious.

I am.

Yeah pretty sure that is pretty well accepted.

jpengland · Post #167 » by **jpengland** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:28 am

The game slows down around him, he is very very quick for his size and exceptionally agile. He has great vision, good strength with a frame to get bigger and as others have said his jumper is technically pretty sound, just needs repetition. He's already got strong defensive instincts.

crazy_me_87 · Post #168 » by **crazy_me_87** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:11 am

I re read the thread and noticed something funny.

the notion came up "hes not shifty at all" The funny thing is if you watch alot of him you see he is. Then in an Draftexpect Video(The analasys of his Game against Ivan Raab) The Guys at draftexpress are saying"he is extremly shifty for his size". I mean draftexpress is as close to competent as it gets. They are wrong sometimes too but have a really good eye for talent evaluation.

Post #169 » by **Marcus** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:33 pm

crazy_me_87 wrote:I re read the thread and noticed something funny.

the notion came up "hes not shifty at all" The funny thing is if you watch alot of him you see he is. Then in an Draftexpect Video(The analasys of his Game against Ivan Raab) The Guys at draftexpress are saying"he is extremly shifty for his size". I mean draftexpress is as close to competent as it gets. They are wrong sometimes too but have a really good eye for talent evaluation.

co-signed that comment about lack of shiftiness.

watched that game, didn't see the shiftiness.

Also "for his size" is a strong caveat. If he's supposed to the be a 4 then sure. I personally (in the minority) see him as a 3 in the league and he's not really shifty compared to 3s in the league.

Don't think it really matters either way though.

Dcebucks11 · Post #170 » by **Dcebucks11** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:26 pm

Simmons is in that tweener role like Lebron although they don't lack in size at all. He can play 3 or 4..

SparksFly87 · Post #171 » by **SparksFly87** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:14 pm

Aaron Gordon...

NikolaPekovic · Post #172 » by **NikolaPekovic** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:03 am

Lebron isn't shifty either..

GANGSTERDOG · Post #173 » by **GANGSTERDOG** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:51 am

SparksFly87 wrote:Aaron Gordon...

Ben Simmons and Air Gordon are the second coming of LeBron

Mike X · Post #174 » by **Mike X** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:12 am

NikolaPekovic wrote:Lebron isn't shifty either..

Its an astute observation. To take it a step further how many 6"10"/240 guys are there in the league that you watch and say "man that dudes shifty as ****.

Imo being "shifty" is great and an asset if youre playing that 1-3 spot and maxing out at 6"7" -6"8", above that its nowhere near as vital.

NikolaPekovic · Post #175 » by **NikolaPekovic** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:46 am

Mike X wrote:
NikolaPekovic wrote:Lebron isn't shifty either..

Its an astute observation. To take it a step further how many 6"10"/240 guys are there in the league that you watch and say "man that dudes shifty as ****.

Imo being "shifty" is great and an asset if youre playing that 1-3 spot and maxing out at 6"7" -6"8", above that its nowhere near as vital.

No need to be shifty when you are a human freight train

bigboi · Post #176 » by **bigboi** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:17 pm

NikolaPekovic wrote:Lebron isn't shifty either..

Lebron was very shifty in his prime. He's not as shifty now, but his strength makes up for it. Simmons isn't shifty(change of direction is unimpressive) and is pretty stiff. He just isn't as impressive as people think and it will show in college

Illmatic12 · Post #177 » by **Illmatic12** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:59 pm

Also, as Lebron became less agile laterally, he developed a post game and other ways to be effective.

Simmons has no post game to speak of, doesn't even seem like he has the instincts to do anything with his back to the basket. He may develop that in time, but initially he's going to have issues being effective in the half court.

BS is a player you'd want to put at the 4, he doesn't have perimeter skills to be effective as a 2/3 imo.. so developing some back-to-the-basket game is key for him

Post #178 » by **GimmeDat** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:07 am

Simmons and LSU played there first game in Australia yesterday, here's the highlights for those interested. Ben had 22 and 10, most of the plays in this clip are open court stuff and just superior athleticism, though that's to be expected from a highlights clip. Don't know how he scored the rest of his points.

https://vimeo.com/136388178#at=158

Edit: Just followed it up with 26 points (10-18 fg, 2-5 3PT, 4-7 FT), 5 boards, 8 assists, 5 TO's, 2 steals and a block tonight. No stream because LSU don't want early footage out but from commentary/box score he seems to be doing very well. Conversely, Blakely seems to have struggled a bit in his first couple of games. Quarterman has been very impressive.

No-Man · Post #179 » by **No-Man** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:58 am

Blakeney is going to have a hard time, he needs the ball in his hands and LSU is loaded on the perimeter.
Ben should beast this year, beast like Beasley type numbers, he is going to play PF/C like Jabari did, with a ton of space, always been defended by slower guys, and good shooters around him.

splendidham · Post #180 » by **splendidham** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:02 am

GimmeDat wrote:Simmons and LSU played there first game in Australia yesterday, here's the highlights for those interested. Ben had 22 and 10, most of the plays in this clip are open court stuff and just superior athleticism, though that's to be expected from a highlights clip. Don't know how he scored the rest of his points.

https://vimeo.com/136388178#at=158

Edit: Just followed it up with 26 points (10-18 fg, 2-5 3PT, 4-7 FT), 5 boards, 8 assists, 5 TO's, 2 steals and a block tonight. No stream because LSU don't want early footage out but from commentary/box score he seems to be doing very well. Conversely, Blakely seems to have struggled a bit in his first couple of games. Quarterman has been very impressive.

Could have sworn they called Ben for about 4 blocks during the call.
Quarterman played well and I think Sampson could be a great pick up

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