DeAndre Ayton

[No-Man]

Sure but JO played a ton of PF too, it was different, and I think 6'11 is absolutely fair, look at the pic



Dwight is 6'10 in shoes, Shaq is 7'1 and Bosh is 6'11, JO looks 6'11 to me, just a huge head, so his reach might've been lower than your typical 6'11 big.

Also JO been a better shotblocker, even if he hunted blocks a bit is production, you are right we haven't seen that from Ayton.

I think you don't remember O'Neal that well, lack of size been an issue? he was huge for a 4 and plenty big to play C late in his career when he basically was a defensive specialsit on the block and rebounding type.

[King Ken]

Sure but JO played a ton of PF too, it was different, and I think 6'11 is absolutely fair, look at the pic



Dwight is 6'10 in shoes, Shaq is 7'1 and Bosh is 6'11, JO looks 6'11 to me, just a huge head, so his reach might've been lower than your typical 6'11 big.

Also JO been a better shotblocker, even if he hunted blocks a bit is production, you are right we haven't seen that from Ayton.

I think you don't remember O'Neal that well, lack of size been an issue? he was huge for a 4 and plenty big to play C late in his career when he basically was a defensive specialsit on the block and rebounding type.

I remember him quite well. I am just unsure he was 6'11. That said, it's unimportant. What is, is that, that's the player on offense who I see the most similarities too. Clearly, the size and strength element being discounted. He looks the same height as Bosh who is 6'11 and some change so I guess I was wrong.

[blazeyo]

JO never looked big on the court to me for some reason. I think it was because of his narrow shoulders and short arms.
He also never played big for that matter either.

I'll tell you this though, Ayton may put up nice raw stats, but it's going to take a while to be a plus on the offensive end if he doesn't become a better shooter and a better PnR player. Towns and Porzingis are on another level offensively in terms of raw skills and gravity on the floor, and if he doesn't look great defensively against College offense then it's a big red flag for me.

If you think these cute mid range shots are going to result even in an average offense, then you are mistaken. If Ayton is featured on offense then this team is probably going to have one of the worst offense in the league.

Game has gone away from 1 on 1 matchups on the post and for a good reason. He needs to have gravity even when he doesn't have the ball and he needs to do the little things to be great at the next level.

#TeamBamba.

[No-Man]

I agree overall but it's not like Bamba is gonna be generating gravity either, he isn't a good roll-man at this point, gonna struggle to finish in traffic and not every team has ideal spacing to generate him looks in a spread PnR, his shot is not a threat as of now, not close to it, and he isn't that quick-off-the floor and def not explosive either.

Overall, team Jaren Jackson for me, thanks.

[blazeyo]

I agree overall but it's not like Bamba is gonna be generating gravity either, he isn't a good roll-man at this point, gonna struggle to finish in traffic and not every team has ideal spacing to generate him looks in a spread PnR, his shot is not a threat as of now, not close to it, and he isn't that quick-off-the floor and def not explosive either.

Overall, team Jaren Jackson for me, thanks.

I didn't compare them as players. Bamba is going to STRUGGLE on offense early on individually speaking. But his calling will be on the defensive end and that's going to translate if not by the second he steps on the floor, then by his second year.

I agree that he isn't a PnR threat yet because he doesn't look very explosive off of rolls, but it's still early to tell and this team don't run any PnR action regardless.

He is definitely not going to be a threat as a shooter early on. Going to look similar to Dragan Bender, but worse. Definitely not a good offense if he is going to look to score that way. HArd for me to think of ways for him to score if he doesn't look aboeva average as a roll man.

Defensively, I just think he is going to be the best defender in the NBA eventually.

Never compared them as players, but Ayton doesn't look like he is going to be a positive on either end early on.

As for Jackson, well, it's early and I'm on a bunch of different teams and he is my guy, just a tier below for now.

[DirtyDez]

I said Miller would either be the best or worst coach for him. Right now Ayton is showing as much intensity on defense as Miller is on the sideline which I haven't seen before. It looks like he knows the FBI is about to drop another bomb and its wearing on him. Ayton is getting targeted on the PNR and Miller is hellbent on playing Ayton and Ristic together. I think they'll start playing zone to keep them out of foul trouble but it won't solve the core issues. The defense so far is the worst I've seen from a Miller coached team.

When Trier goes Kobe-mode and freezes everyone out the offense is more unwatchable than the defense. Hoping it's like the 01' team that lost 4 games early then put it together and nearly ran the table.

[Duke4life831]

I said Miller would either be the best or worst coach for him. Right now Ayton is showing as much intensity on defense as Miller is on the sideline which I haven't seen before. It looks like he knows the FBI is about to drop another bomb and its wearing on him. Ayton is getting targeted on the PNR and Miller is hellbent on playing Ayton and Ristic together. I think they'll start playing zone to keep them out of foul trouble but it won't solve the core issues. The defense so far is the worst I've seen from a Miller coached team.

When Trier goes Kobe-mode and freezes everyone out the offense is more unwatchable than the defense. Hoping it's like the 01' team that lost 4 games early then put it together and nearly ran the table.

Ya I noticed this watching the game last night. Miller is usually a bundle of energy and he seemed very quiet over on the sidelines. Don't know if it's just non conference play and he's trying to teach his guys a lesson or what.

As for Ayton I thought he showed great energy in the pre season and first couple of games but especially at the start of this last game, I thought he was very just meh. Didn't really notice him out on the court until when they started to make their late run. When they were making the run, he was grabbing every board it seemed like and making a nice steal. The inconsistent motor is still my major worry with him.

On a side note, I've never been a fan of Trier's. The guy can become the definition of a black hole on offense.

[Marcus]

I said Miller would either be the best or worst coach for him. Right now Ayton is showing as much intensity on defense as Miller is on the sideline which I haven't seen before. It looks like he knows the FBI is about to drop another bomb and its wearing on him. Ayton is getting targeted on the PNR and Miller is hellbent on playing Ayton and Ristic together. I think they'll start playing zone to keep them out of foul trouble but it won't solve the core issues. The defense so far is the worst I've seen from a Miller coached team.

When Trier goes Kobe-mode and freezes everyone out the offense is more unwatchable than the defense. Hoping it's like the 01' team that lost 4 games early then put it together and nearly ran the table.

Ya I noticed this watching the game last night. Miller is usually a bundle of energy and he seemed very quiet over on the sidelines. Don't know if it's just non conference play and he's trying to teach his guys a lesson or what.

As for Ayton I thought he showed great energy in the pre season and first couple of games but especially at the start of this last game, I thought he was very just meh. Didn't really notice him out on the court until when they started to make their late run. When they were making the run, he was grabbing every board it seemed like and making a nice steal. The inconsistent motor is still my major worry with him.

On a side note, I've never been a fan of Trier's. The guy can become the definition of a black hole on offense.

Lotssssssssssss of drifting out on the perimeter with DeAndre lately. More jumpers than I care to see from him even if they were going in.

[Duke4life831]

I said Miller would either be the best or worst coach for him. Right now Ayton is showing as much intensity on defense as Miller is on the sideline which I haven't seen before. It looks like he knows the FBI is about to drop another bomb and its wearing on him. Ayton is getting targeted on the PNR and Miller is hellbent on playing Ayton and Ristic together. I think they'll start playing zone to keep them out of foul trouble but it won't solve the core issues. The defense so far is the worst I've seen from a Miller coached team.

When Trier goes Kobe-mode and freezes everyone out the offense is more unwatchable than the defense. Hoping it's like the 01' team that lost 4 games early then put it together and nearly ran the table.

Ya I noticed this watching the game last night. Miller is usually a bundle of energy and he seemed very quiet over on the sidelines. Don't know if it's just non conference play and he's trying to teach his guys a lesson or what.

As for Ayton I thought he showed great energy in the pre season and first couple of games but especially at the start of this last game, I thought he was very just meh. Didn't really notice him out on the court until when they started to make their late run. When they were making the run, he was grabbing every board it seemed like and making a nice steal. The inconsistent motor is still my major worry with him.

On a side note, I've never been a fan of Trier's. The guy can become the definition of a black hole on offense.

Lotssssssssssss of drifting out on the perimeter with DeAndre lately. More jumpers than I care to see from him even if they were going in.

Yup. He is disappearing on both sides of the ball a lot, just like he did in high school and this is why his motor was such a question mark. And it becomes even more glaring when he goes on a tear like he did when they were making their run when down like 40-50. He was grabbing every board, making plays offensively, was very active defensively. Where was the for the other 25 minutes he was out on the court, where he kind of was just there but had presence to the game.

[Marcus]

Ya I noticed this watching the game last night. Miller is usually a bundle of energy and he seemed very quiet over on the sidelines. Don't know if it's just non conference play and he's trying to teach his guys a lesson or what.

As for Ayton I thought he showed great energy in the pre season and first couple of games but especially at the start of this last game, I thought he was very just meh. Didn't really notice him out on the court until when they started to make their late run. When they were making the run, he was grabbing every board it seemed like and making a nice steal. The inconsistent motor is still my major worry with him.

On a side note, I've never been a fan of Trier's. The guy can become the definition of a black hole on offense.

Lotssssssssssss of drifting out on the perimeter with DeAndre lately. More jumpers than I care to see from him even if they were going in.

Yup. He is disappearing on both sides of the ball a lot, just like he did in high school and this is why his motor was such a question mark. And it becomes even more glaring when he goes on a tear like he did when they were making their run when down like 40-50. He was grabbing every board, making plays offensively, was very active defensively. Where was the for the other 25 minutes he was out on the court, where he kind of was just there but had presence to the game.

its frustrating because he legit is just a active revved up motor away from putting himself into top big convo at the next level in a few years. But if he's floating this early and we haven't reached conference play or any of that he's going to play himself right out of a top spot.

[Duke4life831]

Lotssssssssssss of drifting out on the perimeter with DeAndre lately. More jumpers than I care to see from him even if they were going in.

Yup. He is disappearing on both sides of the ball a lot, just like he did in high school and this is why his motor was such a question mark. And it becomes even more glaring when he goes on a tear like he did when they were making their run when down like 40-50. He was grabbing every board, making plays offensively, was very active defensively. Where was the for the other 25 minutes he was out on the court, where he kind of was just there but had presence to the game.

its frustrating because he legit is just a active revved up motor away from putting himself into top big convo at the next level in a few years. But if he's floating this early and we haven't reached conference play or any of that he's going to play himself right out of a top spot.

Yup. But motor issues tend to be some of the hardest things to overcome. Usually when people are talking about questionable motors in high school and in college, you tend to keep hearing about it deep into their NBA career's as well.

After the exhibitions I was all but about to lock Ayton down as my #1, he just seemed so active and I was thinking to myself, well if hes active for these games just wait till the season starts and hes really going to be active. But it seems like his activity consistency has been on a steady decline so far and thats super worrisome to me.

Right now Id probably have Bagley #1 because his motor is at 100 from start to finish, hes a freak athlete for his size and I like the form on his jump shot, add in his work ethic off the court. I have very little doubt he becomes a solid shooter in a few years and I think a consistent jump shot with that size and athleticism mixed with his motor is scary. I wish Ayton had Bagley's motor.

[King Ken]

Yup. He is disappearing on both sides of the ball a lot, just like he did in high school and this is why his motor was such a question mark. And it becomes even more glaring when he goes on a tear like he did when they were making their run when down like 40-50. He was grabbing every board, making plays offensively, was very active defensively. Where was the for the other 25 minutes he was out on the court, where he kind of was just there but had presence to the game.

its frustrating because he legit is just a active revved up motor away from putting himself into top big convo at the next level in a few years. But if he's floating this early and we haven't reached conference play or any of that he's going to play himself right out of a top spot.

Yup. But motor issues tend to be some of the hardest things to overcome. Usually when people are talking about questionable motors in high school and in college, you tend to keep hearing about it deep into their NBA career's as well.

After the exhibitions I was all but about to lock Ayton down as my #1, he just seemed so active and I was thinking to myself, well if hes active for these games just wait till the season starts and hes really going to be active. But it seems like his activity consistency has been on a steady decline so far and thats super worrisome to me.

Right now Id probably have Bagley #1 because his motor is at 100 from start to finish, hes a freak athlete for his size and I like the form on his jump shot, add in his work ethic off the court. I have very little doubt he becomes a solid shooter in a few years and I think a consistent jump shot with that size and athleticism mixed with his motor is scary. I wish Ayton had Bagley's motor.

Bagley's motor is not normal. It's relentless like Westbrook's. How many players who have talent who have that motor other than Bagley and Westbrook?

[King Ken]

I agree overall but it's not like Bamba is gonna be generating gravity either, he isn't a good roll-man at this point, gonna struggle to finish in traffic and not every team has ideal spacing to generate him looks in a spread PnR, his shot is not a threat as of now, not close to it, and he isn't that quick-off-the floor and def not explosive either.

Overall, team Jaren Jackson for me, thanks.

Jaren Jackson is more advanced than Bamba right now but Bamba has a lot more natural gifts and is a unicorn of sorts. Jackson reminds me Lorenzen Wright. Clearly, he's more skilled which guys like Wright could have benefited from a better Basketball culture.

[ItsThatEasy]

Ayton is my GUY but Bagley brings out that dog in him every single night. Ayton isn't that type of guy unfortunately. Still think he will be a star in this league though.

[DirtyDez]

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[The Master]

Yeah, Ayton is used on O so poorly by Arizona, I don't know if this is Miller or issuess with Trier, but there's no two men game with guaards, he gets ball on post not very often, his O is midrange jumper-spot up 3-OReb-alleyoops-missmatches, and he's much more than that. You're saying his motor is issue, but this is on defensive end of a floor, on ofense he's just not used appropriately, from time to time he's completely frozen by his teammates. No matter what you are saying about his upside etc. he would dominate around a rim almost every team in a country, in preseason it looked so much different, right now he's scoring nicely but his upside is much better than that.

Still, he is 20-12-2 60%fg freshman and top3 pick, but the way Arizona plays him is a big disappointment.

Ayton has right now 84%fg around a rim, 46% from midrange Js, and over 70% from ft.

[The Master]

And one note more. You're comparing Ayton to Bagley, and I can agree that right now I would give Bagley a favour because of his motor (from more general perspective), but imagine Ayton playing under Krzyzewski - he would be centerpiece on offense, like Bagley right now, and just think how dominant he would be having good shooters and ballhandlers around him, while he's good passer. On the other hand, Bagley would be in Arizona spot up-alleyoop-garbage points type of guy, and I guess he wouldn't have 21-11 statline day by day.

So I wonder if this is Sean Miller case, Alonzo Trier cancering, or matter of lineups (two 7fts).

Maybe I'm biased, but there are few teams in a country where Ayton wouldn't be first option on offense, and the one is where Trier plays. In last 3 matches, Trier had 3/16 from 3, 5 assists and 12tos, not an ideal guard for a player like Ayton.

[blazeyo]

And one note more. You're comparing Ayton to Bagley, and I can agree that right now I would give Bagley a favour because of his motor (from more general perspective), but imagine Ayton playing under Krzyzewski - he would be centerpiece on offense, like Bagley right now, and just think how dominant he would be having good shooters and ballhandlers around him, while he's good passer. On the other hand, Bagley would be in Arizona spot up-alleyoop-garbage points type of guy, and I guess he wouldn't have 21-11 statline day by day.

So I wonder if this is Sean Miller case, Alonzo Trier cancering, or matter of lineups (two 7fts).

Maybe I'm biased, but there are few teams in a country where Ayton wouldn't be first option on offense, and the one is where Trier plays. In last 3 matches, Trier had 3/16 from 3, 5 assists and 12tos, not an ideal guard for a player like Ayton.

I agree.

Bagley is in a much better situation and it's not close.

As for as Ayton, his motor is so on and off it's insane. I watch him and at times he seems lethargic and slow and then something out of the blue ignites him and he looks as explosive as ever.

On defense he has serious WTF moments. He loses his assignments a lot and has no understanding of team defense at all. He is good in the post and against college guards on a switch.

all in all, Arizona is a mess on D and on O and it's very hard to evaluate both Bagley(Since he is a dukey surrounded by superior talent) and Ayton.

[Marcus]

How Miller is using him is a separate entity entirely. Historically even when featured DeAndre has had a tendency to float and settle. Separate from what's happening with him in this system this comes across as bad habits again.

[Duke4life831]

How Miller is using him is a separate entity entirely. Historically even when featured DeAndre has had a tendency to float and settle. Separate from what's happening with him in this system this comes across as bad habits again.

Agreed. Zona has plenty of talent and Miller is an elite coach. This has always been the issue with Ayton. For how dominant he can be, he can go half of games or even sometimes full games where you forget that he's even on the court. His motor comes and goes and offensively he can have a tendency to just float on the perimeter and kind of disappear. This can't happen with a guy with his size/athleticism/skill, you should feel his presence on the game every minute he's on the court.

With that said, there does seem to be a cloud of funk covering this Zona team right now. Everyone and everything with the program seems to be just off.