Killian Hayes, most complete PG of the 2020 class

[Big J]

Guys he’s 20 years old and only been in the league for a year and a half. It’s ridiculous to say that he’s a bust at this point.

[LewisnotMiller]

I had him ranked 7th, lessons learned.

RIP Kevin Oconnor

i had Hampton/Okongwu tier 1, weird class.

Yeah, I was also completely wrong on Hayes. Thought his scoring game would translate a whole lot better but alas here we are. I find international prospects so much more difficult to evaluate (except for Luka, who was a whole different animal than anyone else before and since).

But I'm glad Haliburton has thus far lived up to the high expectations I had for him. One of my favorite prospects in recent years in terms of just loving his approach to the game (the only one who rivals him in this regard over the past five years was Mikal Bridges).

I think the issue with evaluating internationals is that you really need deep knowledge of the league they're playing in.

Person X putting up 25 PPG, vs Person Y putting up 5 PPG means exactly nothing.
I feel pretty decent evaluating talent in the Aussie league mostly because I have enough context for their roles, see entire games, preseasons, etc, and have a good knowledge of the guys they're going up against.

Then I see some highlights package of a 16 year old playing in a secondary league in Finland (slight exaggeration) and I'm thinking the guy looks like the next Giannis...lol

[Duke4life831]

I didnt post in this thread once or had him ranked anywhere on my board for this draft and didnt think he was worth the time to even post anything about him. I guess I nailed it with him.

we can just forget the fact I dont ever rank Euro players or talk about them...

[clyde21]

Guys he’s 20 years old and only been in the league for a year and a half. It’s ridiculous to say that he’s a bust at this point.

bruh, u were literally doing this to Cade after two games.

[clyde21]

i had Hampton/Okongwu tier 1, weird class.

Yeah, I was also completely wrong on Hayes. Thought his scoring game would translate a whole lot better but alas here we are. I find international prospects so much more difficult to evaluate (except for Luka, who was a whole different animal than anyone else before and since).

But I'm glad Haliburton has thus far lived up to the high expectations I had for him. One of my favorite prospects in recent years in terms of just loving his approach to the game (the only one who rivals him in this regard over the past five years was Mikal Bridges).

I think the issue with evaluating internationals is that you really need deep knowledge of the league they're playing in.

Person X putting up 25 PPG, vs Person Y putting up 5 PPG means exactly nothing.
I feel pretty decent evaluating talent in the Aussie league mostly because I have enough context for their roles, see entire games, preseasons, etc, and have a good knowledge of the guys they're going up against.

Then I see some highlights package of a 16 year old playing in a secondary league in Finland (slight exaggeration) and I'm thinking the guy looks like the next Giannis...lol

this, thats why teams have scouts/departments specifically dedicated to international scouting, you need to understand the leagues, systems, coaching, etc to really be able to get a good idea of what's happening.

[Big J]

Guys he’s 20 years old and only been in the league for a year and a half. It’s ridiculous to say that he’s a bust at this point.

bruh, u were literally doing this to Cade after two games.

I called him a bust after 2 games? cool emoji's by the way.

[clyde21]

Guys he’s 20 years old and only been in the league for a year and a half. It’s ridiculous to say that he’s a bust at this point.

bruh, u were literally doing this to Cade after two games.

I called him a bust after 2 games? cool emoji's by the way.

yea, we all know how hard you trolled that Cade thread.

meanwhile pretending people can't formulate an opinion on Hayes after two seasons? lmao, you can't make this up.

[MotownMadness]

Yeah I didn't do my homework on him i guess. I let sites the Ringer get me pumped for him and he's sucked.

Still a good defender and passer but beyond awful offensively.

I wanted Doumbouya as well so im done with international players for a while since i cant watch them as often as guys from college.

[Big J]

bruh, u were literally doing this to Cade after two games.

I called him a bust after 2 games? cool emoji's by the way.

yea, we all know how hard you trolled that Cade thread.

meanwhile pretending people can't formulate an opinion on Hayes after two seasons? lmao, you can't make this up.

C'mon man, you trolled me about Jalen Green a couple weeks ago and now he's killing it. **** happens.

[WargamesX]

I wasn’t in this thread, but the Knicks draft thread but I remember not wanting Hayes because he was slow and the league he played in was crap comp and he wasn’t slaughtering them. Eventually enough people told me to shut up that I was like **** it

[God Squad]

Bust or nah? I know what side of the fence i'm on.

I stand by what I said. Looking pretty busty and not the good type. He still has plenty of time to turn things around, but we're evaluating him on what he's shown.

[tmorgan]

His ceiling is looking like a bench game controller, and that’s still gonna take time to achieve. Certainly not what you want from the 7th pick. I think it’s fair say all of Weaver’s other picks since taking over have looked good for their draft position, but Killian is taking a much slower road. Not ready to give up yet, as he does have numerous NBA quality elements to his game, but with a weak off hand and weak scoring ability, there’s not much he can do if those can’t be improved upon.

[BostonCouchGM]

No posts in this since April? Let's bump this.

Am I crazy as a Hornets fan to want Hayes as my #3?

Far from crazy. I think alot of people would take him 3. What I am hoping is once he starts working on his body and gets some NBA training in his athleticism goes up a tick. The skill set is there and will develop more. No question in my mind he is top 5 talent.

yeah, I haven't been a fan but you have to remember, a few years ago they started allowing illegal moving screens to enable ball handlers that up till then, could never run an NBA offense due to limited athleticism, inconsistent shot creation, defense, turnovers, and handle, to get bigs switched onto them so those major flaws were limited. He's going to be just like Luka and Ball in that regard. High BBIQ, elite passing and everything else will be overlooked because they want him to be a star. I agree, if he transformed his body and improved his shot, through hard work and diligence, the day where he won't need that illegal screen at the top of the key might someday come. Unlike Luka and Ball, I think he will defend and actually might have some athletic upside. Not enough for me to take him in the top 10 though. I think a lot would come down to his interview. If he's driven and mature, I'd take him late lottery. If he's a knucklehead it'd be closer to #20.

some of us don't sit on the sidelines and pretend we knew all along. We put our thoughts out there for good or bad. Remember how wrong The Ringer was about him? I think they had him #1. It was very obvious he was being overrated. Still, these kids go to poorly run franchises with bad coaches and they don't really have a chance. Maybe he can get a change of scenery, be around some veterans and get a jumper down the road and make a career for himself. I feel bad for him tbh.

[Big J]

He just went 13, 6, and 4 on 5-8 shooting last game and we are writing his eulogy at 20 years old. Why?

[Drwho17]

He just went 13, 6, and 4 on 5-8 shooting last game and we are writing his eulogy at 20 years old. Why?

In his 79th game, he scored over 12 points for the second time in his career. It was a good game for him, but offensively he is really, really bad, poor shooter, poor finisher, it is not looking good for his long term success. I think at this point expectations are that he can be a bench guard/game manager, he's a good defender/passer.

[Big J]

He just went 13, 6, and 4 on 5-8 shooting last game and we are writing his eulogy at 20 years old. Why?

In his 79th game, he scored over 12 points for the second time in his career. It was a good game for him, but offensively he is really, really bad, poor shooter, poor finisher, it is not looking good for his long term success. I think at this point expectations are that he can be a bench guard/game manager, he's a good defender/passer.

Defense and passing are 2 pretty damn good skills to have at 20 years old. He could develop into a Ricky Rubio type. Just seems crazy that people are calling him a bust after 79 games at his age.

[Big J]

13, 8 & 5 on 5/8 shooting. We need to normalize not expecting these guys to all develop at the same rate.

[MemphisX]

There are plenty of dudes in the G League that can have a good game every two weeks if gifted minutes.

[Chuck Everett]

Might be back to Europe if he doesn't get extended after year four. Not cutting the muster.

[Colbinii]

13, 8 & 5 on 5/8 shooting. We need to normalize not expecting these guys to all develop at the same rate.

He had a decent game against the worst defensive PG in the NBA in Trae Young--good for him. His previous 10 games were dog ****.