Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft

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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#161 » by 7r5ur » Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:18 am

Colbinii wrote:
Spoiler:
KembaWalker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Who cares about the fit of a 14-win team. The Pistons have very little high-ceiling players, they have very little in terms of pure NBA talent and outside of Cade, everyone on the team has a limited ceiling for one reason or another.

Take BPA at #5.

Drafting for fit keeps you drafting for fit.


Pistons certainly haven’t been drafting for fit for a while now and it seems to keep them drafting for potential. At some point you need some fit to let the potential be released


You can fill in the roster for fit by adding what you need in free agency [Detroit has cap space] or trades [Detroit has assets for trades].

So the issue isn't drafting--it's filling out the roster. Let's look at how Detroit has done since drafting Cade, shall we?

Kept a non-shooter and non-nba caliber prospect in Killian Hayes playing big minutes.
Traded for Marvin Bagley.
Had a wing rotation of guys like Frank Jackson and Hamidou Diallo while trading away Trey Lyles and Kelly Olynyk [For Bojan, not bad].
Traded Jerami Grant for a 1st Rd Pick.
Traded away Kevin Knox and Seddiq Bey for James Wiseman.
Traded Nnaji for Sasser.
Traded Cap Space for Joe Harris.
Traded Bojan and Burks for Quentin Grimes.
Traded Monte Morris for Shake/TBJ.
Traded Knox for Fontecchio.

Some of the moves, especially the earlier moves, are real head scratchers. They decided to punt on cap space in 2023-2024 by eating Joe Harris instead of filling roster holes/needs. Now, they do have a decent track-record over the past 6 months, and hopefully that continues.

Look it it this way.

Decent-to-Good Shooters:
Cade Cunningham
Simone Fontecchio
Isaiah Stewart
Quentin Grimes
Marcus Sasser

Poor Shooters:
Jaden Ivey
Ron Holland

Non Shooters:
Ausar Thompson
Jalen Duren

I think moving forward, one of Ivey/Holland/Thompson/Duren will need to go, and reading the tea leaves Jaden Ivey is the odd-man out. He doesn't have a high defensive ceiling like Duren/Thompson/Holland, he doesn't possess positional flexibility like Thompson/Holland and doesn't have this incredible offensive ceiling like Cade Cunningham still possesses.

Was Jaden Ivey the wrong pick? I don't think so. He was very high on most people's boards.

Move Ivey for someone like Cameron Johnson. Overpay for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope or Klay Thompson. Bring in Doug McDermott on a short deal above the minimum.

Cade Cunningham/Marcus Sasser
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope/Quentin Grimes
Simone Fontecchio/Ron Holland/Doug McDermott
Cameron Johnson/Ausar Thompson
Jalen Duren/Isaiah Stewart

Now the team is plum-full of shooting. You can get creative with Ausar/Stewart front-courts as Ausar is so flexible defensively.

I see Duren as much closer to the odd man out than Ivey if we're picking one (maybe both are). It's hard to be a center in the league if you can't defend or stretch the floor. If 3 point shooting is Ivey's swing skill and defense is Duren's swing skill, Ivey is MILES closer to being a legitimately good shooter than Duren is at becoming an even passable defender. Ivey has shot 36% on catch and shoot threes in his career (better than Cade btw). He's not some horrendous unfixable shooter.

A stretch 5 fixes many of the short-term issues. Simply starting Stewart at the 5 and limiting Duren's role to a bench guy for 20mpg immediately makes the team much better in the short-term. Stewart's a much better defender than Duren and his shooting allows them to start their best defender (Ausar) without destroying the spacing. The defense would immediately jump up above horrendous territory. It's the most obvious move on earth that requires no personnel moves, but there's this notion that we can't "demote" Duren for some reason.

You only have to look at the one stretch the Pistons played with Mike Muscala as the backup 5. Immediately the Pistons looked like a vaguely competent team simply because he opened up the floor for guys like Ausar and Ivey. If you have Duren in the paint not defending on one end and clogging the paint on the other, it makes everyone on the roster worse.

That said, I'm fine with bringing everyone back with a couple of vet FA additions and evaluating under a new coach, with some time under Fred Vinson. The Pistons aren't going to be good next year and honestly they shouldn't try to be. This team still lacks talent and the only way to get it is through the draft.
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#162 » by bucknut » Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:04 pm

Adding another chucker who can't shoot in tim hardaway.........wuuut
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#163 » by MrTribbiani » Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:46 pm

The Pistons were smart to pick him. A **** ass team like that is in no position to draft for "fit" lmao.
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#164 » by clyde21 » Mon Apr 14, 2025 4:05 pm

Why is Simone Fontecchio getting more minutes than Ron Holland?
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#165 » by ReggiesKnicks » Mon Apr 14, 2025 4:41 pm

clyde21 wrote:Why is Simone Fontecchio getting more minutes than Ron Holland?


He isn't.

Simone Fontecchio minutes post-ASB: 353
Ron Holland minutes post-ASB: 411
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#166 » by FarBeyondDriven » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:17 am

ReggiesKnicks wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Why is Simone Fontecchio getting more minutes than Ron Holland?


He isn't.

Simone Fontecchio minutes post-ASB: 353
Ron Holland minutes post-ASB: 411


I'm usually all about drafting talent over fit but Ausar was just drafted and plays the exact position as Holland so it was a dumb pick imo. I watched this game and I'm not kidding, Holland barely touched the ball. His teammates don't look to him even when he's clapping when he's wide open. His body language shows how fed up he is in this situation. If he doesn't see impactful playoff minutes I think his camp will ask for a trade as he really doesn't have a future with the Pistons.
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#167 » by blog_pistons » Tue Apr 15, 2025 11:17 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Why is Simone Fontecchio getting more minutes than Ron Holland?


He isn't.

Simone Fontecchio minutes post-ASB: 353
Ron Holland minutes post-ASB: 411


I'm usually all about drafting talent over fit but Ausar was just drafted and plays the exact position as Holland so it was a dumb pick imo. I watched this game and I'm not kidding, Holland barely touched the ball. His teammates don't look to him even when he's clapping when he's wide open. His body language shows how fed up he is in this situation. If he doesn't see impactful playoff minutes I think his camp will ask for a trade as he really doesn't have a future with the Pistons.


LOL
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#168 » by FarBeyondDriven » Tue Apr 15, 2025 5:01 pm

blog_pistons wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:
He isn't.

Simone Fontecchio minutes post-ASB: 353
Ron Holland minutes post-ASB: 411


I'm usually all about drafting talent over fit but Ausar was just drafted and plays the exact position as Holland so it was a dumb pick imo. I watched this game and I'm not kidding, Holland barely touched the ball. His teammates don't look to him even when he's clapping when he's wide open. His body language shows how fed up he is in this situation. If he doesn't see impactful playoff minutes I think his camp will ask for a trade as he really doesn't have a future with the Pistons.


LOL


outstanding contribution. Tell us more!!
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#169 » by JMAC3 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:26 pm

clyde21 wrote:Why is Simone Fontecchio getting more minutes than Ron Holland?


I know people should be in here delusional and comparing him to Amen Thompson and Steph Castle... oh wait nobody is doing that?
No wonder the thread is pretty normal without people in here being blind homers constantly.
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#170 » by clyde21 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:18 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Why is Simone Fontecchio getting more minutes than Ron Holland?


I know people should be in here delusional and comparing him to Amen Thompson and Steph Castle... oh wait nobody is doing that?
No wonder the thread is pretty normal without people in here being blind homers constantly.


Where was he on your board again?
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#171 » by JMAC3 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:27 pm

clyde21 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Why is Simone Fontecchio getting more minutes than Ron Holland?


I know people should be in here delusional and comparing him to Amen Thompson and Steph Castle... oh wait nobody is doing that?
No wonder the thread is pretty normal without people in here being blind homers constantly.


Where was he on your board again?


Yeah I don't run from these convos, hide out in other threads, insult people or make excuses like you....

I had him #1 after Topic was ruled out with injury, which I will admit and take any heat associated lol. Again, I am not going to cry, make excuses or be afraid to admit I may be wrong unlike a lot of people around here that take themselves way too seriously.

See how I haven't been in this thread making a billion excuses all season or making crazy comps? I would gladly admit he had an underwhelming rookie year. See how easy it is?
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#172 » by clyde21 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 11:22 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
I know people should be in here delusional and comparing him to Amen Thompson and Steph Castle... oh wait nobody is doing that?
No wonder the thread is pretty normal without people in here being blind homers constantly.


Where was he on your board again?


Yeah I don't run from these convos, hide out in other threads, insult people or make excuses like you....

I had him #1 after Topic was ruled out with injury, which I will admit and take any heat associated lol. Again, I am not going to cry, make excuses or be afraid to admit I may be wrong unlike a lot of people around here that take themselves way too seriously.

See how I haven't been in this thread making a billion excuses all season or making crazy comps? I would gladly admit he had an underwhelming rookie year. See how easy it is?


Billion excuses? I almost never revisit old threads until joker posters try to bump them to push in agenda, and that seems to be your only job on this board, it's so pathetic my dude :lol:
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#173 » by JMAC3 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 11:24 pm

clyde21 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Where was he on your board again?


Yeah I don't run from these convos, hide out in other threads, insult people or make excuses like you....

I had him #1 after Topic was ruled out with injury, which I will admit and take any heat associated lol. Again, I am not going to cry, make excuses or be afraid to admit I may be wrong unlike a lot of people around here that take themselves way too seriously.

See how I haven't been in this thread making a billion excuses all season or making crazy comps? I would gladly admit he had an underwhelming rookie year. See how easy it is?


Billion excuses? I almost never revisit old threads until joker posters try to bump them to push in agenda, and that seems to be your only job on this board, it's so pathetic my dude :lol:


something something excuse, avoid the convo, followed by insult.. typical lol
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Re: Ron Holland - G League Ignite - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#174 » by tmorgan » Wed Apr 16, 2025 9:27 am

Uhhh, I don’t know what you jokers do in here besides insult each other constantly, but Ron Holland did just fine as rook.

Yeah, he was drafted into a crowded situation as a 2 or 3 in Detroit, but he got minutes when he deserved them, especially after Ivey went down.

His defense as a rookie wing was outstanding. Very disruptive, uses his size and length well. Once he gets a little stronger (age 19, after all), he’ll likely be even better. No foreseeable problems defensively, and he brings a FU attitude and fears no one.

Offensively, his shot looks good. Doesn’t go in. That has to be his immediate focus, turning into a respectable C&S threat. He’s a very good finisher (69% at the rim), great in transition, and not a ball-stopper.

I’m in the minority on my home board, but I strongly prefer Holland to Ivey, and I also think, despite not having the same insane level of physical gifts, he could end up a better player than Ausar, too. We can’t make Holland a starter yet, but if Ivey comes back strong and re-establishes his value, I’d look to deal one of Ausar or Ivey (preferably Ivey) and make Holland a starter by year three. That shot does need to start falling, though. I think it will (I do not think Ausar will ever shoot well outside of ten feet).

Based on what I’ve seen this year, Holland probably went right about where he should have, or just slightly later. I’d prefer the rights to Castle or Risacher, but not by a ton. Maybe Sarr, too, but he has a long way to go. Buzelis maybe. McCain maybe. One or two I’m forgetting.

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