Zach Edey, 7-4

[JMAC3]

Has anyone ever argued that Edey is a primary reason why the Grizzlies are so good? I doubt it. He is a positive factor, though, and that is more than we can say about most first round picks in their first season.

Well most first round picks are being slammed into negative situations on losing teams.

Are we going to pretend that Missi and Clingan wouldn't look significantly better if they weren't playing for dumpster squads this year?

It's more difficult for Rookies to impact the game positively on a good team than it is to show flashes on bad ones. Missi and Clingan likely wouldn't play much for the Grizzlies because the team wants to contend. You make it sound as if Edey is just lucky being gifted minutes on a good team when in fact he earned those minutes because he is simply better than your average Rookie. Him playing well for the Grizzlies strengthens his case instead of weakening it as you seem to erroneously believe (or at least argue).

How have I said him playing well for a good team weakens his case? What weakens his case is that he is 22 years old as a rookie, if you don't think that matters than you haven't been watching basketball the last decade.

He was drafted to a team without a starting center and he is starting. People were saying he would start for the Grizzlies before he even played a game this year. The same with Yves Missi. Clingan who is player I view pretty similarly to Edey, but at least younger would also be starting for the Grizzlies if he was drafted 9th overall, Grizzlies tried to trade up for him. The reason Clingan isn't starting is because the guy ahead of him makes 34 million and the other guy is making 12 million and likely getting showcased to trade. Edey would be coming off the bench for the Blazers as well.

So give us an Edey take? You think he is a future all-star? What will he average next year?

Because people getting worked up about a center averaging 11/7 just doesn't do it for me.

[Big J]

Well most first round picks are being slammed into negative situations on losing teams.

Are we going to pretend that Missi and Clingan wouldn't look significantly better if they weren't playing for dumpster squads this year?

It's more difficult for Rookies to impact the game positively on a good team than it is to show flashes on bad ones. Missi and Clingan likely wouldn't play much for the Grizzlies because the team wants to contend. You make it sound as if Edey is just lucky being gifted minutes on a good team when in fact he earned those minutes because he is simply better than your average Rookie. Him playing well for the Grizzlies strengthens his case instead of weakening it as you seem to erroneously believe (or at least argue).

How have I said him playing well for a good team weakens his case? What weakens his case is that he is 22 years old as a rookie, if you don't think that matters than you haven't been watching basketball the last decade.

He was drafted to a team without a starting center and he is starting. People were saying he would start for the Grizzlies before he even played a game this year. The same with Yves Missi. Clingan who is player I view pretty similarly to Edey, but at least younger would also be starting for the Grizzlies if he was drafted 9th overall, Grizzlies tried to trade up for him. The reason Clingan isn't starting is because the guy ahead of him makes 34 million and the other guy is making 12 million and likely getting showcased to trade. Edey would be coming off the bench for the Blazers as well.

So give us an Edey take? You think he is a future all-star? What will he average next year?

Because people getting worked up about a center averaging 11/7 just doesn't do it for me.

People get all pumped up about Edey because he's huge and atypical of a modern big in todays NBA in that he doesn't shoot 3s or defend. They want him to succeed and become some outlier, but in reality he's just a situational big who will get played off the floor in the playoffs when teams start targeting guys who can't defend in space. Him eating up regular season minutes is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

[babyjax13]

It's more difficult for Rookies to impact the game positively on a good team than it is to show flashes on bad ones. Missi and Clingan likely wouldn't play much for the Grizzlies because the team wants to contend. You make it sound as if Edey is just lucky being gifted minutes on a good team when in fact he earned those minutes because he is simply better than your average Rookie. Him playing well for the Grizzlies strengthens his case instead of weakening it as you seem to erroneously believe (or at least argue).

How have I said him playing well for a good team weakens his case? What weakens his case is that he is 22 years old as a rookie, if you don't think that matters than you haven't been watching basketball the last decade.

He was drafted to a team without a starting center and he is starting. People were saying he would start for the Grizzlies before he even played a game this year. The same with Yves Missi. Clingan who is player I view pretty similarly to Edey, but at least younger would also be starting for the Grizzlies if he was drafted 9th overall, Grizzlies tried to trade up for him. The reason Clingan isn't starting is because the guy ahead of him makes 34 million and the other guy is making 12 million and likely getting showcased to trade. Edey would be coming off the bench for the Blazers as well.

So give us an Edey take? You think he is a future all-star? What will he average next year?

Because people getting worked up about a center averaging 11/7 just doesn't do it for me.

People get all pumped up about Edey because he's huge and atypical of a modern big in todays NBA in that he doesn't shoot 3s or defend. They want him to succeed and become some outlier, but in reality he's just a situational big who will get played off the floor in the playoffs when teams start targeting guys who can't defend in space. Him eating up regular season minutes is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

I disagree with the last piece. If you have a guy who can reduce the minutes of your regular playoff rotation *during the regular season*, or who can step up during the regular season when it would be better to rest someone but it makes less sense if there isn't a backup who can scale into a role (say ... JJJ twists his ankle and the next two games are against bad to mediocre teams like Chicago and Utah), I think that has some value to a playoff team even if he gets Kantered in the playoffs.

[Big J]

How have I said him playing well for a good team weakens his case? What weakens his case is that he is 22 years old as a rookie, if you don't think that matters than you haven't been watching basketball the last decade.

He was drafted to a team without a starting center and he is starting. People were saying he would start for the Grizzlies before he even played a game this year. The same with Yves Missi. Clingan who is player I view pretty similarly to Edey, but at least younger would also be starting for the Grizzlies if he was drafted 9th overall, Grizzlies tried to trade up for him. The reason Clingan isn't starting is because the guy ahead of him makes 34 million and the other guy is making 12 million and likely getting showcased to trade. Edey would be coming off the bench for the Blazers as well.

So give us an Edey take? You think he is a future all-star? What will he average next year?

Because people getting worked up about a center averaging 11/7 just doesn't do it for me.

People get all pumped up about Edey because he's huge and atypical of a modern big in todays NBA in that he doesn't shoot 3s or defend. They want him to succeed and become some outlier, but in reality he's just a situational big who will get played off the floor in the playoffs when teams start targeting guys who can't defend in space. Him eating up regular season minutes is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

I disagree with the last piece. If you have a guy who can reduce the minutes of your regular playoff rotation *during the regular season*, or who can step up during the regular season when it would be better to rest someone but it makes less sense if there isn't a backup who can scale into a role (say ... JJJ twists his ankle and the next two games are against bad to mediocre teams like Chicago and Utah), I think that has some value to a playoff team even if he gets Kantered in the playoffs.

Yea, I guess you have a point there.

[The-Power]

They want him to succeed and become some outlier, but in reality he's just a situational big who will get played off the floor in the playoffs when teams start targeting guys who can't defend in space. Him eating up regular season minutes is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

First he wasn't an NBA player according to you. Now he's not a playoffs player. The goalposts are already shifting which – from someone like you who has extreme takes on him – is the biggest compliment Edey can get. Well done, Edey. Proving the haters wrong already!

[Big J]

They want him to succeed and become some outlier, but in reality he's just a situational big who will get played off the floor in the playoffs when teams start targeting guys who can't defend in space. Him eating up regular season minutes is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

First he wasn't an NBA player according to you. Now he's not a playoffs player. The goalposts are already shifting which – from someone like you who has extreme takes on him – is the biggest compliment Edey can get. Well done, Edey. Proving the haters wrong already!

Actually I comped him to Boban. Who was in the league for 9 years. Goalposts are still in the same spot.

[BigGargamel]

They want him to succeed and become some outlier, but in reality he's just a situational big who will get played off the floor in the playoffs when teams start targeting guys who can't defend in space. Him eating up regular season minutes is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

First he wasn't an NBA player according to you. Now he's not a playoffs player. The goalposts are already shifting which – from someone like you who has extreme takes on him – is the biggest compliment Edey can get. Well done, Edey. Proving the haters wrong already!

Actually I comped him to Boban. Who was in the league for 9 years. Goalposts are still in the same spot.

Edey is already better than Boban ever was. That's who I compared him to as well. I don't think Edey will ever be an amazing player but he should be a starter in the NBA for several years. Much better than Boban ever was. It's okay to be wrong sometimes. We all are. Edey has played better than I thought he would.

I still like Clingan and Missi more as long term prospects, but Edey has shown he won't be a huge liability and can have an occasional huge game.

[Big J]

First he wasn't an NBA player according to you. Now he's not a playoffs player. The goalposts are already shifting which – from someone like you who has extreme takes on him – is the biggest compliment Edey can get. Well done, Edey. Proving the haters wrong already!

Actually I comped him to Boban. Who was in the league for 9 years. Goalposts are still in the same spot.

Edey is already better than Boban ever was. That's who I compared him to as well. I don't think Edey will ever be an amazing player but he should be a starter in the NBA for several years. Much better than Boban ever was. It's okay to be wrong sometimes. We all are. Edey has played better than I thought he would.

I still like Clingan and Missi more as long term prospects, but Edey has shown he won't be a huge liability and can have an occasional huge game.

Edey hasn’t snow he won’t be a huge liability yet. Teams just aren’t targeting him like they will in the playoffs.

[GoBobs]

Watch on YouTube

pretty impressive stuff

[165bows]

Can’t wait to see how many years this thread goes.

[CptCrunch]

Anyways I was wrong about Edey. He might not become a star, but he has a clear role in the league barring injuries.

I want to point out the Edey for top 5-10 pick folks are also wrong. Even if Edey isn't a second rounder (as I have stated many times); he is no where near a lotto pick in value.

[MemphisX]

Anyways I was wrong about Edey. He might not become a star, but he has a clear role in the league barring injuries.

I want to point out the Edey for top 5-10 pick folks are also wrong. Even if Edey isn't a second rounder (as I have stated many times); he is no where near a lotto pick in value.

By what metric will this be based upon?

[GoBobs]

Only player in the league with a pos +\- in 15 straight games this year.

Only rookie to post a pos +\- in 15 straight games since 1996 and did that in only 20 games

[The Moose]

Anyways I was wrong about Edey. He might not become a star, but he has a clear role in the league barring injuries.

I want to point out the Edey for top 5-10 pick folks are also wrong. Even if Edey isn't a second rounder (as I have stated many times); he is no where near a lotto pick in value.

By what metric will this be based upon?

From 1988-2018 (30 year period) the average for >3 VORP careers is 16.6.

>3 VORP is like the absolute baseline for a player ever even becoming a rotation player at best. Lottery value, being top 14, is almost guaranteed assuming Edey sticks around in any capacity.

[NO-KG-AI]

The draft board, considering it is about evaluating the most raw and evolving guys, should be the most open to changes of opinion, shifting of evaluations, and open mindedness, but people really don’t wanna discuss prospects and stuff, they wanna be right and dunk on people. There is a wealth of info on this board, but a wealth of fragile egos lmao

[JMAC3]

The draft board, considering it is about evaluating the most raw and evolving guys, should be the most open to changes of opinion, shifting of evaluations, and open mindedness, but people really don’t wanna discuss prospects and stuff, they wanna be right and dunk on people. There is a wealth of info on this board, but a wealth of fragile egos lmao

I will have no issue admitting I was wrong on him, if that is the case. However, way too early to crown him as some awesome pick based on the numbers. He has 2 games out of 20 that he looks like he could be special which have been vs the Nets and Raptors, outside of that he has looked like the standard issue big center that can give you 10/10 per night when given minutes.

The advanced stats are nice, but hard to know what is noise when he is playing on the 2nd best team in the West. They have the 5th best net rating in basketball, basically everyone of their rotation players is massively positive in the advanced stats so he isn't any sort of outlier, same goes for EPM.

For instance, Jared McCain. I am already admitting I was too low on him, but he already had 8 20+ point games in his first 20 games and isn't already 22 years old.

[JMAC3]

He hasn't even had back to back games with 15+ Points and there are people in here calling for crow to be eaten because he has a good plus/minus...

Meanwhile Reed Sheppard is shooting 32%, advanced stats hate him and he isn't even in the rotation.
4% Overall EPM. 26th in Rookies total Minutes.

Seen Zero people come close to eating crow on Reed.

[clyde21]

...Meanwhile Reed Sheppard is shooting 32%, advanced stats hate him and he isn't even in the rotation.
4% Overall EPM. 26th in Rookies total Minutes.

Seen Zero people come close to eating crow on Reed.

the advanced stats hate Ron Holland, who you had #1, way more. what is it that you're trying to accomplish here exactly?

[JMAC3]

...Meanwhile Reed Sheppard is shooting 32%, advanced stats hate him and he isn't even in the rotation.
4% Overall EPM. 26th in Rookies total Minutes.

Seen Zero people come close to eating crow on Reed.

the advanced stats hate Ron Holland, who you had #1, way more. what is it that you're trying to accomplish here exactly?

Hmm, do they? I will get to that in a moment, but I am also not in the Holland thread trying to convince people he is some huge hit right now after any decent game. Whereas any time Edey scores 12 pts this thread blows up like he is an unstoppable force and demanding people eat crow...for the most mid rookie year, lol.

Back to the Holland vs Reed talk.
Holland TS% is 54.6
Reed TS% is 41.4

Holland EPM is 15%
Reed EPM is 4%

Holland on/off -0.4
Reed on/off is -12

All while Holland is a full year younger than Reed, I wouldn't say either are looking awesome but then again I also wouldn't be trying to run victory laps if Holland was averaging 11 ppg, which at 19 years old would be a lot more impressive than Edey doing it at 22 yrs old.

[clyde21]

...Meanwhile Reed Sheppard is shooting 32%, advanced stats hate him and he isn't even in the rotation.
4% Overall EPM. 26th in Rookies total Minutes.

Seen Zero people come close to eating crow on Reed.

the advanced stats hate Ron Holland, who you had #1, way more. what is it that you're trying to accomplish here exactly?

Hmm, do they? I will get to that in a moment, but I am also not in the Holland thread trying to convince people he is some huge hit right now after any decent game. Whereas any time Edey scores 12 pts this thread blows up like he is an unstoppable force and demanding people eat crow...for the most mid rookie year, lol.

Back to the Holland vs Reed talk.
Holland TS% is 54.6
Reed TS% is 41.4

Holland EPM is 15%
Reed EPM is 4%

Holland on/off -0.4
Reed on/off is -12

All while Holland is a full year younger than Reed, I wouldn't say either are looking awesome but then again I also wouldn't be trying to run victory laps if Holland was averaging 11 ppg, which at 19 years old would be a lot more impressive than Edey doing it at 22 yrs old.

i'm confused, is anyone in the Reed thread claiming he's playing great? you're in the Zach Edey thread asking for crow about Sheppard, yet the guy *you* had #1 overall is playing even worse by several metrics, including BPM, WS/48, VORP.