Temetrius "Ja" Morant

[Marcus]

And the award for most polarizing player of the 2019 draft goes to...

bruh. definitely didn't come into the year thinking anybody had ANYTHING on Zion when it came to that.

[Duke4life831]

And the award for most polarizing player of the 2019 draft goes to...

bruh. definitely didn't come into the year thinking anybody had ANYTHING on Zion when it came to that.

Haha right. I thought Zion had this on lock like no other player. But it seems like its like a good 90-95% of people have Zion as the easy #1.

But the Ja thing is just so interesting to me. I started really low on him, then got high on him (had him #2 for a quick second), then Ive soured more and more on him. So I can see both sides on this. He just seems to be the lightening rod of this draft. That name gets mentioned and arguments begin haha.

I personally have him 11-14.

[NBA Fan 1234]

And the award for most polarizing player of the 2019 draft goes to...

bruh. definitely didn't come into the year thinking anybody had ANYTHING on Zion when it came to that.

Haha right. I thought Zion had this on lock like no other player. But it seems like its like a good 90-95% of people have Zion as the easy #1.

But the Ja thing is just so interesting to me. I started really low on him, then got high on him (had him #2 for a quick second), then Ive soured more and more on him. So I can see both sides on this. He just seems to be the lightening rod of this draft. That name gets mentioned and arguments begin haha.


I personally have him 11-14.

The vast majority of people who are leading the "Zion is not #1" team are, unfortunately, Knicks fans.

[Marcus]

bruh. definitely didn't come into the year thinking anybody had ANYTHING on Zion when it came to that.

Haha right. I thought Zion had this on lock like no other player. But it seems like its like a good 90-95% of people have Zion as the easy #1.

But the Ja thing is just so interesting to me. I started really low on him, then got high on him (had him #2 for a quick second), then Ive soured more and more on him. So I can see both sides on this. He just seems to be the lightening rod of this draft. That name gets mentioned and arguments begin haha.


I personally have him 11-14.

The vast majority of people who are leading the "Zion is not #1" team are, unfortunately, Knicks fans.

lol. what's the problem there?

[NBA Fan 1234]

Haha right. I thought Zion had this on lock like no other player. But it seems like its like a good 90-95% of people have Zion as the easy #1.

But the Ja thing is just so interesting to me. I started really low on him, then got high on him (had him #2 for a quick second), then Ive soured more and more on him. So I can see both sides on this. He just seems to be the lightening rod of this draft. That name gets mentioned and arguments begin haha.


I personally have him 11-14.

The vast majority of people who are leading the "Zion is not #1" team are, unfortunately, Knicks fans.

lol. what's the problem there?

That some (seemingly a decently sized minority) of Knicks fans want Ja over Zion?

[Duke4life831]

The vast majority of people who are leading the "Zion is not #1" team are, unfortunately, Knicks fans.

lol. what's the problem there?

That some (seemingly a decently sized minority) of Knicks fans want Ja over Zion?

I will say Ive seen a small amount on a few team boards that question Zion over Ja, not just the Knicks haha. That is why I put it around 90-95% haha.

[Stillwater]

The vast majority of people who are leading the "Zion is not #1" team are, unfortunately, Knicks fans.

lol. what's the problem there?

That some (seemingly a decently sized minority) of Knicks fans want Ja over Zion?

maybe some think they can promote a subliminal mind **** convincing whoever has the first besides the Knicks to pass on Zion

[doordoor123]

are u suggesting that this guy wouldn't be killing it if he was on UK or Duke instead?

I am suggesting he wouldn't be getting nearly as much hype and his flaws would be actually seen by people, instead of the masses resorting to watching highlights. I am suggesting his numbers wouldn't be as great. I am suggesting he wouldn't be wrongly viewed as a top 3 pick.

I don't think people really understand how crap his league is and how overrated he really is.

i mean, i agree that top 3 is too rich (i have him 10th), but I disagree with the idea that he wouldn't look as good on a higher profile team.

As a back up on a high profile team he would be an average Roleplayer. The Spurs wouldn’t play him the first year just because he can’t play off ball. He would start on a tanking team and he would turn the ball over a lot. Eventually the team would have to get a player that turns the ball over less and plays better defense. He’s years away from being an actual functional player.

[clyde21]

I am suggesting he wouldn't be getting nearly as much hype and his flaws would be actually seen by people, instead of the masses resorting to watching highlights. I am suggesting his numbers wouldn't be as great. I am suggesting he wouldn't be wrongly viewed as a top 3 pick.

I don't think people really understand how crap his league is and how overrated he really is.

i mean, i agree that top 3 is too rich (i have him 10th), but I disagree with the idea that he wouldn't look as good on a higher profile team.

As a back up on a high profile team he would be an average Roleplayer. The Spurs wouldn’t play him the first year just because he can’t play off ball. He would start on a tanking team and he would turn the ball over a lot. Eventually the team would have to get a player that turns the ball over less and plays better defense. He’s years away from being an actual functional player.

so Ja Morant is unathletic, too skinny, too small, can't shoot, and can't play off-ball.

sounds a lot like your guys' boy Trae Young, who's a much worse athlete, smaller, weaker, shot worse in conference play and definitely didn't/doesn't play a lick off-ball.

again, something isn't adding up here. I understand if you don't like Morant. But I don't understand how u two can such huge fans of Young but poopoo the crap out of Ja. Inconsistent analysis across the board.

[NBA Fan 1234]

i mean, i agree that top 3 is too rich (i have him 10th), but I disagree with the idea that he wouldn't look as good on a higher profile team.

As a back up on a high profile team he would be an average Roleplayer. The Spurs wouldn’t play him the first year just because he can’t play off ball. He would start on a tanking team and he would turn the ball over a lot. Eventually the team would have to get a player that turns the ball over less and plays better defense. He’s years away from being an actual functional player.

so Ja Morant is unathletic, too skinny, too small, can't shoot, and can't play off-ball.

sounds a lot like your guys' boy Trae Young, who's a much worse athlete, smaller, weaker, shot worse in conference play and definitely didn't/doesn't play a lick off-ball.

again, something isn't adding up here. I understand if you don't like Morant. But I don't understand how u two can such huge fans of Young but poopoo the crap out of Ja. Inconsistent analysis across the board.

Go ask the Knicks board about how I was on Trae. I was equally hard on him for his lack of defense, turnovers, finishing problems, and poor shot IQ. However, I think his passing is better and, even though he didn't play off the ball much at OU, he absolutely had the ability to - he was in the 100th percentile, IIRC, on C&S.

So, no, I was never a "huge fan" of Young. My analysis is consistent and I poke holes in everyone, regardless of who they are and what team they play for. Please don't lump me in there.

*He shot worse in a conference that makes Morant's look like 8th grade rec league.

[clyde21]

As a back up on a high profile team he would be an average Roleplayer. The Spurs wouldn’t play him the first year just because he can’t play off ball. He would start on a tanking team and he would turn the ball over a lot. Eventually the team would have to get a player that turns the ball over less and plays better defense. He’s years away from being an actual functional player.

so Ja Morant is unathletic, too skinny, too small, can't shoot, and can't play off-ball.

sounds a lot like your guys' boy Trae Young, who's a much worse athlete, smaller, weaker, shot worse in conference play and definitely didn't/doesn't play a lick off-ball.

again, something isn't adding up here. I understand if you don't like Morant. But I don't understand how u two can such huge fans of Young but poopoo the crap out of Ja. Inconsistent analysis across the board.

Go ask the Knicks board about how I was on Trae. I was equally hard on him for his lack of defense, turnovers, finishing problems, and poor shot IQ. However, I think his passing is better and, even though he didn't play off the ball much at OU, he absolutely had the ability to - he was in the 100th percentile, IIRC, on C&S.

So, no, I was never a "huge fan" of Young. My analysis is consistent and I poke holes in everyone, regardless of who they are and what team they play for. Please don't lump me in there.

*He shot worse in a conference that makes Morant's look like 8th grade rec league.

sorry, I was actually talking about Fischella, who I believe had Trae top 3?

which is fine, plenty of people did, but I just don't see the consistency here.

[916fan]

Poor competition is poor competition.

I'd also add that him being head and shoulders above the competition, and basketball being a sport where 1 player can make all the difference, negates the lack of talent he's playing with. And, FWIW, his backcourt mate, while not an NBA prospect, is better than most players he's played against.

Playing organized basketball at any level also shows that if you are that much better than the competition, you can be paired with crap and it'll still work.

I feel like people are coming up with bull excuses just because.

are u suggesting that this guy wouldn't be killing it if he was on UK or Duke instead?

I am suggesting he wouldn't be getting nearly as much hype and his flaws would be actually seen by people, instead of the masses resorting to watching highlights. I am suggesting his numbers wouldn't be as great. I am suggesting he wouldn't be wrongly viewed as a top 3 pick.

I don't think people really understand how crap his league is and how overrated he really is.

Lillard played in the Big Sky.
McCollum played in the Patriot League.
Curry played in the A10.

Small conference guys can excel in the NBA. NBA talents stand out no matter what conference they're in. Brandon McCoy put up elite numbers as a freshman at UNLV, but no one here had him as a legitimate NBA prospect. I also think you're overrating level of competition a bit. Look at Rodions Kurucs last year who was stuck playing for Barca's 2nd team. Would you penalize him for playing against bad 16-20yearsolds who wouldn't even get minutes for the worst teams in the LKL?

What exactly is your argument? That people are overrating him because he's putting up big numbers for a bad conference? Eh, not seeing it. A lot of people are high on him because he's a quick shifty PG with good handles who has down-hill scoring ability. He's also a good passer with nice vision. He's got good length and a fillable frame. His FT% is good and his jumpshot is far from broken. Plus, he's only 19 yearsold right now. Nothing I said relates to anything about his conference nor the numbers he's put up. Anyone who does any decent amount of scouting knows that the OVC is bad.

I think you do a good job scouting, but this take is a bit of a head scratcher lol

[NBA Fan 1234]

are u suggesting that this guy wouldn't be killing it if he was on UK or Duke instead?

I am suggesting he wouldn't be getting nearly as much hype and his flaws would be actually seen by people, instead of the masses resorting to watching highlights. I am suggesting his numbers wouldn't be as great. I am suggesting he wouldn't be wrongly viewed as a top 3 pick.

I don't think people really understand how crap his league is and how overrated he really is.

Lillard played in the Big Sky.
McCollum played in the Patriot League.
Curry played in the A10.

Small conference guys can excel in the NBA. NBA talents stand out no matter what conference they're in. Brandon McCoy put up elite numbers as a freshman at UNLV, but no one here had him as a legitimate NBA prospect. I also think you're overrating level of competition a bit. Look at Rodions Kurucs last year who was stuck playing for Barca's 2nd team. Would you penalize him for playing against bad 16-20yearsolds who wouldn't even get minutes for the worst teams in the LKL?

What exactly is your argument? That people are overrating him because he's putting up big numbers for a bad conference? Eh, not seeing it. A lot of people are high on him because he's a quick shifty PG with good handles who has down-hill scoring ability. He's also a good passer with nice vision. He's got good length and a fillable frame. His FT% is good and his jumpshot is far from broken. Plus, he's only 19 yearsold right now. Nothing I said relates to anything about his conference nor the numbers he's put up. Anyone who does any decent amount of scouting knows that the OVC is bad.

I think you do a good job scouting, but this take is a bit of a head scratcher lol

Not sure what McCoy has to do with anything.

Very good point on Kurucs, but I believe he played well in international scouting settings? I didn't have him ranked last year because I didn't know enough about him. You definitely have a point here, though. Kudos.

My argument is a) he's not as good as his numbers suggest b) people need to stop watching highlights and watch full games c) his jump shot is broken (the form is bad...and eerily similar to Schroder, who, while being a good FT shooter, is a bad shooter) and d) he is a bad defender.

Yes, he is quick and shifty and is definitely a good passer. I like his athleticism and his downhill mentality for sure...but people are ignoring his flaws while only focusing on the positives. I think the overwhelming majority of people who have strong opinions on him have not seen him play...which is why I've seen people say he's "Kyrie without the jumper" or a "smaller Harden." He's not those, nor is he Fox. Fox was quicker, was the MUCH better finisher, had a more translatable form, and was a better defender.

As for the players you brought up - they all had tougher schedules than Morant does.

I still have Morant in my 7-11 (12?) tier, so it's not like I think he's a non-lotto prospect; I just think the overhyping of him is insane - that's really it. I poke holes in arguments, and write arguments, for a living...it's just what I do. I think finding flaws in players is important, and especially important when scouting (and people read what you say). If you only focus on the positives, you're ignoring half of everything. However, if the positives are already out there (highlights), then someone has to show the negative, right?

[Duke4life831]

are u suggesting that this guy wouldn't be killing it if he was on UK or Duke instead?

I am suggesting he wouldn't be getting nearly as much hype and his flaws would be actually seen by people, instead of the masses resorting to watching highlights. I am suggesting his numbers wouldn't be as great. I am suggesting he wouldn't be wrongly viewed as a top 3 pick.

I don't think people really understand how crap his league is and how overrated he really is.

Lillard played in the Big Sky.
McCollum played in the Patriot League.
Curry played in the A10.

Small conference guys can excel in the NBA. NBA talents stand out no matter what conference they're in. Brandon McCoy put up elite numbers as a freshman at UNLV, but no one here had him as a legitimate NBA prospect. I also think you're overrating level of competition a bit. Look at Rodions Kurucs last year who was stuck playing for Barca's 2nd team. Would you penalize him for playing against bad 16-20yearsolds who wouldn't even get minutes for the worst teams in the LKL?

What exactly is your argument? That people are overrating him because he's putting up big numbers for a bad conference? Eh, not seeing it. A lot of people are high on him because he's a quick shifty PG with good handles who has down-hill scoring ability. He's also a good passer with nice vision. He's got good length and a fillable frame. His FT% is good and his jumpshot is far from broken. Plus, he's only 19 yearsold right now. Nothing I said relates to anything about his conference nor the numbers he's put up. Anyone who does any decent amount of scouting knows that the OVC is bad.

I think you do a good job scouting, but this take is a bit of a head scratcher lol

I dont think anyone is saying guys from bad conferences cant make it in the NBA. I think people like myself are saying, you have to take in the competition into consideration when looking at these guys. Like when Duke early in the season played Army/Eastern Michigan/Stetson and the likes of those guys. Many people and rightfully so didnt really care about those games. That was Duke beating up on guys that had no reason to be on the same court as those guys. It was pointless as a fan and it was pointless as someone trying to judge them to see what would transfer over to the NBA, because the level of competition (size, athleticism, coaching, skill) was so bad it was pointless. Ja is basically playing against that game in and game out.

When it comes to his game, I think there are things to like about him (athleticism, aggression) but I have a lot of questions about his game as well. His defense is really bad, his jumper looks pretty funky to me and I question how comfortable he will be with it against NBA size and athleticism. I cant call him a great finisher at the paint cause I really just dont have much tape to fall back on of him finishing against legit size and athleticism. I question how is he going to consistently score outside of 10ft. I also question what kind of player can he be off the ball? We have no clue. Or is he going to have to be a high usage PG? If so that means youre going to have to build your entire offense around him.

I also question how many people (not saying you specifically) have watched more than 3-4 full games of his. I am a die hard college basketball fan. My entire DVR is basically just college basketball (and south park and Sunny). Even I have a hard time getting on Watch ESPN and watching an OVC game.

[doordoor123]

so Ja Morant is unathletic, too skinny, too small, can't shoot, and can't play off-ball.

sounds a lot like your guys' boy Trae Young, who's a much worse athlete, smaller, weaker, shot worse in conference play and definitely didn't/doesn't play a lick off-ball.

again, something isn't adding up here. I understand if you don't like Morant. But I don't understand how u two can such huge fans of Young but poopoo the crap out of Ja. Inconsistent analysis across the board.

Go ask the Knicks board about how I was on Trae. I was equally hard on him for his lack of defense, turnovers, finishing problems, and poor shot IQ. However, I think his passing is better and, even though he didn't play off the ball much at OU, he absolutely had the ability to - he was in the 100th percentile, IIRC, on C&S.

So, no, I was never a "huge fan" of Young. My analysis is consistent and I poke holes in everyone, regardless of who they are and what team they play for. Please don't lump me in there.

*He shot worse in a conference that makes Morant's look like 8th grade rec league.

sorry, I was actually talking about Fischella, who I believe had Trae top 3?

which is fine, plenty of people did, but I just don't see the consistency here.

There’s a big difference between Young and Morant, it’s not even comparable. Morant is bigger, quicker, more athletic and has more advanced moves. Young has a much tighter handle, he’s a much better passer, he’s a better shooter and he has a higher IQ/more control in his game. Of course he lacks size and doesn’t take the best shots, but his ability to handle and pass the way he does is special. Those are two qualities very few players have and thus it is more valuable. If you watch some of his more recent plays he’s actually playing much better. At the same time I’m also someone who said he should come off the bench in the first year. You have to give 17/18/19 year olds more time. I would be SHOCKED if Morant becomes a starter in his first year and if he is I would Ben shocked if it were to be for long. He has so much development to work on. If point guards want playing time they need to be able to beat guys off the dribble via off of a screen or in an iso situation. Morant can get off a screen, but I’m not convinced he has the first step to do it in iso situations at the NBA level. They need to be able to defend (and if he’s a starter, starting level point guards, which by average have elite speed/first steps). They need to be able to play off-ball unless they’re elite handlers/passers and I don’t see the that in Morant due to his high turnover rate and high handle.

[Stillwater]

It would be nice to see weak conference players get a chance to go up against better teams a lot more often aside from the first round of the tournament assuming said player on said weak conference team carries said team to the big dance.
I do think Ja has a high level of athleticism that makes people instantly overvalue him discounting his competition that's not normally sniffing next level stuff. I have him in the top 10 still based on his consistency transferring somewhat but I could be dead wrong and am not at all confident I am right until I see more, but when that will be who knows

[doordoor123]

It would be nice to see weak conference players get a chance to go up against better teams a lot more often aside from the first round of the tournament assuming said player on said weak conference team carries said team to the big dance.
I do think Ja has a high level of athleticism that makes people instantly overvalue him discounting his competition that's not normally sniffing next level stuff. I have him in the top 10 still based on his consistency transferring somewhat but I could be dead wrong and am not at all confident I am right until I see more, but when that will be who knows

The thing is he has size, elite athleticism and has the ability make advanced plays. There’s definitely high upside there. But I can name other players who look like they have high upside and don’t necessarily impact winning, like Dennis Smith Jr. I actually think the two have similar strengths and weaknesses. There are innate things both players just won’t be able to learn, like a developed handle and passing ability. Neither of them have it. I like DSJ more because he actually has better explosion, is a better defender and doesn’t make ridiculous mistakes with the ball.

[King Ken]

i mean, i agree that top 3 is too rich (i have him 10th), but I disagree with the idea that he wouldn't look as good on a higher profile team.

As a back up on a high profile team he would be an average Roleplayer. The Spurs wouldn’t play him the first year just because he can’t play off ball. He would start on a tanking team and he would turn the ball over a lot. Eventually the team would have to get a player that turns the ball over less and plays better defense. He’s years away from being an actual functional player.

so Ja Morant is unathletic, too skinny, too small, can't shoot, and can't play off-ball.

sounds a lot like your guys' boy Trae Young

This is a horrible hot take.

[King Ken]

We all have our own opinions, even the awful ones like clyde ones on Trae.

At the end of the day. Morant is clearly #3 on my big board with a gap right after. In fact, I have Morant and Barrett close as well.

We all have our own opinions. I've seen posters say they wouldn't take R.J. in the lottery. Nonsense has been said since the beginning of time on this site and that's fine as we all look for different things for different positions and players.

[King Ken]

Go ask the Knicks board about how I was on Trae. I was equally hard on him for his lack of defense, turnovers, finishing problems, and poor shot IQ. However, I think his passing is better and, even though he didn't play off the ball much at OU, he absolutely had the ability to - he was in the 100th percentile, IIRC, on C&S.

So, no, I was never a "huge fan" of Young. My analysis is consistent and I poke holes in everyone, regardless of who they are and what team they play for. Please don't lump me in there.

*He shot worse in a conference that makes Morant's look like 8th grade rec league.

sorry, I was actually talking about Fischella, who I believe had Trae top 3?

which is fine, plenty of people did, but I just don't see the consistency here.

There’s a big difference between Young and Morant, it’s not even comparable. Morant is bigger, quicker, more athletic and has more advanced moves. Young has a much tighter handle, he’s a much better passer, he’s a better shooter and he has a higher IQ/more control in his game.

Morant is not quicker than Trae. Trae might have one of the best combinations in the NBA of quickness and first step. From what I've seen of Morant, I've seen far more speed and acceleration but I don't see more quickness and agility or even close. Morant has elite speed and acceleration. That's why some compare him to Westbrook with the power dunking to go with it.

I don't see a Westbrook level athlete. I don't see all time GOAT athlete like Westbrook was. That's elite speed, quickness, first step, and acceleration in his prime. Same for D. Rose who has even crazier acceleration in his prime.

I see more of a D. Fox level athlete. Where he has tremendous open court speed and acceleration. But his first step and quickness is solid and could be even better if he had the strength and body control that's needed.