Kentucky prospects (Johnson, Hagans, Washington, Herro...)

[916fan]

He has a few side-steps and step-backs. There's a step back at the end -- 3:40. He's 6'6", 207 lbs with a 6'8" wingspan. He shot 44% from 3-pt as both a freshman and soph.

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1) you literally just proved they're not really comparable.

2) Stauskas doesn't have the on-ball prowess that Herro has and never did...and that includes a quick first step and ability to be a secondary ball handler.

3) i'm not sure what Stauskas' failure in the NBA has to do with Herro. That's like saying Zion will have trouble in the NBA because Anthony Bennett did.

the only player you mentioned that really compares to Herro is Kennard, and Herro is just better overall.

Hold up, did you just say Stauskas doesn't have the on-ball prowess that Herro has.. an that he's never had the ability to be a secondary ball handler?? That's just straight up wrong. Stauskas averaged 3.3apg (compared to Herro's 2.4apg) and there were so many games where he had to take over ball handling duties for Michigan as their point-guard. He was their leader in assists that year. For you to say Stauskas didn't have the ability to be a secondary ball handler is completely off. Maybe you're not remembering him as a prospect, or maybe you didn't watch very much of him? (he was one of the biggest stars of college basketball that year). Just watch the highlight of this game vs. Iowa and tell me he's not much of a secondary ball handler or on-ball creator.

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0:03 dribble pull up 3
0:20 cross over layup
0:40 PNP assist
0:48 mid range step back
1:01 raises over for a 3/dribble pull up
1:31 cross over assist
2:16 dribble penetration

I'm honestly not going to waste the rest of my time breaking down this video, but holy crap.. for you to say he doesn't have the on-ball prowess with a lacking ability to be a secondary ball handler is BS. He was literally Michigan's leading ball handler for stretches of the season! His entire game revolved around his shooting and ball handling ability!!! I'm dumbfounded by that take right now.. makes me think you never watched him at Michigan. This take is just so... bad..I literally attached a 3min video of Stauskas in 1 game showing all he does. This isn't some 5s chopped off twitter vids from different games.

[916fan]

He has a few side-steps and step-backs. There's a step back at the end -- 3:40. He's 6'6", 207 lbs with a 6'8" wingspan. He shot 44% from 3-pt as both a freshman and soph.

Watch on YouTube

37% as a freshman, 44% as a sophomore.

But anyways, here's my 2 cents on the Herro vs Stauskas debate.

First off, Herro is a much better team defender and just smarter, more alert and competitive overall defensively. Also think his footwork, balance and release point will make him more effective and versatile both as an off movement and off the dribble shooter. Quicker and smarter decision maker whereas Nik has always had the habit of trying to do too much offensively at times and ruin the flow of possessions.

Nik's handle, size and more slashing style gave him more perceived upside, but think Tyler's strengths and IQ on offense and better team defense translate cleaner into a secondary/tertiary role in lineups on a good team.

Your figure is wrong. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nik-stauskas-1.html

44% as a freshman on 4.7 3pa
44.2% as a sophomore on 5.8 3pa

I think Stauskas is the superior player on-ball, but Herro has better off-ball movement which I thought Nik floated around a bit too much. Herro does a better job finding open spaces on the court without the ball. One underrated aspect between the two is shooting ability though. Herro is a good shooter, while Nik was a great shooter. I think Nik did a better job finding with balance in his shot and he had a quicker release. Nik was able to shoot moving to his left or right with his mechanics hardly affected. However, Herro's ability to hold his release point is pretty unique in his own right. It's similar to Devin Booker where they can both kinda hold the defender up in the air and use it get their shot off.

I honestly don't see the comparison between the two aside from physical limitations and cockiness. Stauskas was the superior prospect who busted because he could never adjust to the physicality of the NBA. I'm also not sure if his head was in the right place, he was pretty full of himself.. and then you have the rumors about how Cousins made him cry and killed all of his confidence. The crying rumor came from a trusted beat reporter although they didn't specify who. Zach Lowe provided even more insight. Before the start of Stauskas' rookie season, the Kings took a trip to China where Cousins tried to fight Stauskas on the plane. He also said Cousins bullied and hounded him everyday. Pretty awful... of course both parties deny it, but I think it gives us insights and possibilities of why Stauskas busted.

[PLO]

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?s=21

[No-Man]

Herro is super awkward but he is like 10xtimes the athlete that Magee is

[clyde21]

He has a few side-steps and step-backs. There's a step back at the end -- 3:40. He's 6'6", 207 lbs with a 6'8" wingspan. He shot 44% from 3-pt as both a freshman and soph.

Watch on YouTube

1) you literally just proved they're not really comparable.

2) Stauskas doesn't have the on-ball prowess that Herro has and never did...and that includes a quick first step and ability to be a secondary ball handler.

3) i'm not sure what Stauskas' failure in the NBA has to do with Herro. That's like saying Zion will have trouble in the NBA because Anthony Bennett did.

the only player you mentioned that really compares to Herro is Kennard, and Herro is just better overall.

Hold up, did you just say Stauskas doesn't have the on-ball prowess that Herro has.. an that he's never had the ability to be a secondary ball handler?? That's just straight up wrong. Stauskas averaged 3.3apg (compared to Herro's 2.4apg) and there were so many games where he had to take over ball handling duties for Michigan as their point-guard. He was their leader in assists that year. For you to say Stauskas didn't have the ability to be a secondary ball handler is completely off. Maybe you're not remembering him as a prospect, or maybe you didn't watch very much of him? (he was one of the biggest stars of college basketball that year). Just watch the highlight of this game vs. Iowa and tell me he's not much of a secondary ball handler or on-ball creator.

Watch on YouTube

0:03 dribble pull up 3
0:20 cross over layup
0:40 PNP assist
0:48 mid range step back
1:01 raises over for a 3/dribble pull up
1:31 cross over assist
2:16 dribble penetration

I'm honestly not going to waste the rest of my time breaking down this video, but holy crap.. for you to say he doesn't have the on-ball prowess with a lacking ability to be a secondary ball handler is BS. He was literally Michigan's leading ball handler for stretches of the season! His entire game revolved around his shooting and ball handling ability!!! I'm dumbfounded by that take right now.. makes me think you never watched him at Michigan. This take is just so... bad..I literally attached a 3min video of Stauskas in 1 game showing all he does. This isn't some 5s chopped off twitter vids from different games.

1) maybe I am misremembering him at Michigan, but I never thought of him as a good on-ball creator at all and didn't think any of it would translate. he's too mechanical, can't dribble in traffic, doesn't have a good first step and I don't think he's quite as nuanced as these highlights suggest on a grander scale.

2) raw assists don't mean anything. Herro would probably avg 5 if he was the lead guard but that's Hagans/Quickley's responsibilities and even PJ gets in on the action there as a point-forward.

3) again, the comparison never made sense to begin with. I don't think Nik is as strong or as fast, even though he's bigger and longer. Their physical profiles are not the same at all and I think Herro's profile has a handler is going to translate much more effectively too the next level.

[clyde21]

Herro isn't Redick either...out of all the guys mentioned probably closest to Kennard but like I said, better at pretty much everything.

[clyde21]

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?s=21

Magee is gonna be a 23 year old rook.

[Killboard]

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?s=21

Magee is gonna be a 23 year old rook.

What kind of ignorant take is to compare players starting and finishing his college careers WITHOUT even consider that fact?

[Killboard]

1) you literally just proved they're not really comparable.

2) Stauskas doesn't have the on-ball prowess that Herro has and never did...and that includes a quick first step and ability to be a secondary ball handler.

3) i'm not sure what Stauskas' failure in the NBA has to do with Herro. That's like saying Zion will have trouble in the NBA because Anthony Bennett did.

the only player you mentioned that really compares to Herro is Kennard, and Herro is just better overall.

Hold up, did you just say Stauskas doesn't have the on-ball prowess that Herro has.. an that he's never had the ability to be a secondary ball handler?? That's just straight up wrong. Stauskas averaged 3.3apg (compared to Herro's 2.4apg) and there were so many games where he had to take over ball handling duties for Michigan as their point-guard. He was their leader in assists that year. For you to say Stauskas didn't have the ability to be a secondary ball handler is completely off. Maybe you're not remembering him as a prospect, or maybe you didn't watch very much of him? (he was one of the biggest stars of college basketball that year). Just watch the highlight of this game vs. Iowa and tell me he's not much of a secondary ball handler or on-ball creator.

Watch on YouTube

0:03 dribble pull up 3
0:20 cross over layup
0:40 PNP assist
0:48 mid range step back
1:01 raises over for a 3/dribble pull up
1:31 cross over assist
2:16 dribble penetration

I'm honestly not going to waste the rest of my time breaking down this video, but holy crap.. for you to say he doesn't have the on-ball prowess with a lacking ability to be a secondary ball handler is BS. He was literally Michigan's leading ball handler for stretches of the season! His entire game revolved around his shooting and ball handling ability!!! I'm dumbfounded by that take right now.. makes me think you never watched him at Michigan. This take is just so... bad..I literally attached a 3min video of Stauskas in 1 game showing all he does. This isn't some 5s chopped off twitter vids from different games.

1) maybe I am misremembering him at Michigan, but I never thought of him as a good on-ball creator at all and didn't think any of it would translate. he's too mechanical, can't dribble in traffic, doesn't have a good first step and I don't think he's quite as nuanced as these highlights suggest on a grander scale.

2) raw assists don't mean anything. Herro would probably avg 5 if he was the lead guard but that's Hagans/Quickley's responsibilities and even PJ gets in on the action there as a point-forward.

3) again, the comparison never made sense to begin with. I don't think Nik is as strong or as fast, even though he's bigger and longer. Their physical profiles are not the same at all and I think Herro's profile has a handler is going to translate much more effectively too the next level.

Compare their 2pt% as freshemen. Since those shots are most at the rim and off the dribble, you have a better idea how good the player is at creating his own shot. When you put 2pt% and FT% together, Herro is an really wierd prospect for a freshmen.

[PLO]

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?s=21

Magee is gonna be a 23 year old rook.

What kind of ignorant take is to compare players starting and finishing his college careers WITHOUT even consider that fact?

About as ignorant as thinking Magee is even an NBA player I guess.

[PLO]

Herro is super awkward but he is like 10xtimes the athlete that Magee is

That statement is kind of irrelevant since Magee isn't an NBA level talent, but it should give the Herro "lottery" adherents pause when a senior non-athlete who is no where near draftable can apparently do the Tyler Herro game better than Tyler Herro can.

[clyde21]

Magee is gonna be a 23 year old rook.

What kind of ignorant take is to compare players starting and finishing his college careers WITHOUT even consider that fact?

About as ignorant as thinking Magee is even an NBA player I guess.

you could've made the point that Herro isn't an NBA player without beating around the bush with that tweet. not really sure how Magee is relevant.

[PLO]

What kind of ignorant take is to compare players starting and finishing his college careers WITHOUT even consider that fact?

About as ignorant as thinking Magee is even an NBA player I guess.

you could've made the point that Herro isn't an NBA player without beating around the bush with that dumb tweet.

I didn't say Herro wasn't draftable, and nothing about tweet is false, even if Magee squibs the tournament.

[clyde21]

About as ignorant as thinking Magee is even an NBA player I guess.

you could've made the point that Herro isn't an NBA player without beating around the bush with that dumb tweet.

I didn't say Herro wasn't draftable, and nothing about tweet is false, even if Magee squibs the tournament.

the tweet is irrelevant. what does Magee have to do with Herro? and if you don't think Magee is even an NBA player, what's the point of you even posting it?

[PLO]

you could've made the point that Herro isn't an NBA player without beating around the bush with that dumb tweet.

I didn't say Herro wasn't draftable, and nothing about tweet is false, even if Magee squibs the tournament.

the tweet is irrelevant. what does Magee have to do with Herro? and if you don't think Magee is even an NBA player, what's the point of you even posting it?

Because it shows among a wider audience Herro isn't the great prospect you and a few others seem to think he is?

[mattg]

I didn't say Herro wasn't draftable, and nothing about tweet is false, even if Magee squibs the tournament.

the tweet is irrelevant. what does Magee have to do with Herro? and if you don't think Magee is even an NBA player, what's the point of you even posting it?

Because it shows among a wider audience Herro isn't the great prospect you and a few others seem to think he is?

Seems far more indicative of a few people who just don’t like Herro as a prospect and try and make any kind of comparison to discredit him. Which is fine, it is what it is. But let’s not pretend that hasn’t been going on since day 1, there were plenty of people posting on this board about herro’s Poor shooting profile at the beginning of the year and mocking other posters for even considering him a prospect based on the stats so far. Guess what happened? Shooting normalized and now many of those people haven’t made a single peep, especially since in some of the cases Herro is so far beyond the guys they comped him to as a shooter that they want no part of a discussion because they know how dumb it makes them look. For example, It’s funny how certain people love to cite FT% as the true mark of shooting ability when it’s convenient, but then other times like with Herro being 20%+ better as a FT shooter than the guys they brought up they don’t want to even discuss it and pivot to a different talking point.

It’s fine to not like Herro as a prospect or think he won’t be anything good in the nba, but some people like to do mental gymnastics here. Like the entire convo about can Herro even get his J off in the nba because of his wingspan. Literally dumbest discussion ever on realgm aside from when people troll and race bait.

[clyde21]

I didn't say Herro wasn't draftable, and nothing about tweet is false, even if Magee squibs the tournament.

the tweet is irrelevant. what does Magee have to do with Herro? and if you don't think Magee is even an NBA player, what's the point of you even posting it?

Because it shows among a wider audience Herro isn't the great prospect you and a few others seem to think he is?

that's fine, you and I don't have to agree on everyone so it doesn't really matter to me, but the premise of the tweet is still bizarre.

[mattg]

the tweet is irrelevant. what does Magee have to do with Herro? and if you don't think Magee is even an NBA player, what's the point of you even posting it?

Because it shows among a wider audience Herro isn't the great prospect you and a few others seem to think he is?

that's fine, you and I don't have to agree on everyone so it doesn't really matter to me, but the premise of the tweet is still bizarre.

It's just a dumb agenda tweet. Not like it would be hard to concoct something in the other direction about Magee being a 31.6% 3pt shooter in his career vs power conference opponents while his team has a record of 3-17 in those games or something.

But that's dumb, because it ignores context. Also, the initial tweet is stupid because there's been tons of guys in the mold of Magee that were super impactful college players who you would take over highly touted freshman prospects every day of the week if your objective was to strictly win an NCAA basketball game. But that's not really what matters when prospect scouting since you're projecting whether what a guy does will translate to the NBA.

[clyde21]

where do people rank PJ, Herro and Keldon vs. Knox, Shai and Vanderbilt from last year as prospects?

[mattg]

Probably Shai, Herro, Knox, PJ, Keldon, Vanderbilt.