Kon Knueppel

[jezzerinho]

I understand the athleticism concerns, but Kon's is way ahead of Kispert as a creator.

Great, Kon is better at passing with 2.7 assists vs 1.8 assists. I personally don't think that is some massive swing skill based on the numbers. Kon is also younger than Kispert when drafted, so he has that going.

I think Kispert is just as good of a shooter, they both are limited to only shooting on catch. They both lacked midrange, both were similar at the rim and Kispert with 37.5 inch vert is a better athlete. Kispert also measured bigger, so yeah maybe not a perfect comp but wouldn't shock me at all if they end up similar players in the NBA.

Who is a better comp for Kon in your opinion?

Joe Ingles?

[BigGargamel]

Givony and Woo of ESPN have Kon at #2 and #4 respectively in their latest mock, the highest I've seen him.

Come on. I hate ESPN as well but this is a click bait post.

It was a "team need" vs. "best value" mock. Kon was at #2 because SF is the Spurs biggest need.

I mean, it was your normal ESPN trash article but it wasn't a straight mock.

[SkyHook]

Givony and Woo of ESPN have Kon at #2 and #4 respectively in their latest mock, the highest I've seen him.

Come on. I hate ESPN as well but this is a click bait post.

It was a "team need" vs. "best value" mock. Kon was at #2 because SF is the Spurs biggest need.

I mean, it was your normal ESPN trash article but it wasn't a straight mock.

I must have missed that part. Wasn't intended to be clickbait. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt though.

[Klomp]

One of my favorite prospects in the class, if only for the reason that his mother went to high school in a tiny town down the road....

[JMAC3]

To me Kon is a pretty easy choice at #3, especially for a win now team now team like Philly. His numbers as a freshman were outstanding (10.8 BPM, 64% TS, 2:1 A/T, +34.7 net rating), and he has a skill set that can fit on any team.

The knock on him is his lack of elite athleticism, but he’s got good size and strength for a 2 guard, and the guy can just flat out play. You don’t need to project wild skill development the way you do with Bailey, Edgecombe, etc. He’s ready to play right now and he’s only going to get better with experience.

Don’t overthink it the way teams did with Haliburton and Brunson. Take the good player and let these other teams gamble on the “high upside” prospects.

Yes, just like don't overthink it with Dalton Knecht. Take him top 5 and bet he is ready to play now just like Hali and Brunson, he will be fine on defense...

It took Knecht 3 years to have a season on the level of Kon’s freshman year, and even then he wasn’t nearly as good. Kon was a better shooter at all levels (2, 3, and FT), a better ball handler, a better passer, all while being 20 lbs heavier.

And for all the concerns about Kon’s defense, the fact is he contributed to an elite defensive team all year. You can’t say the same about some of these other top prospects. He’ll be fine on that end.

I agree age matters, but trying to use that now is a bit of hindsight because people were pushing Knecht last year as a top 6 draft pick as well.

I would say outside of FT shooting % they were pretty similar as shooters, Knecht was much better at the rim and more active in midrange.
Knecht weighed 212 lbs at combine, Kneupple 217- far from 20 lbs difference.
Knecht contributed to Tennessee having the 3rd best defense in college basketball.

Yet Knecht is still an awful defender in the NBA, so to me trying to say Kneupple will be a good defender with a bad wingspan, bad athleticism, bad stock numbers, a complete lack of defensive playing/highlights all because he didn't look terrible playing next to 4 other NBA level athletes on one of the biggest teams in the country...

And maybe Kon will develop at a great pace due to his age, but it also wouldn't shock me if Knecht ends up the better player in the NBA.

[greg4012]

I think the reality is that Kon is very advanced for his age from a skill development perspective. I think assuming a player with league-worst wing size and league-worst SG athleticism will continue to develop at a rate commensurate with top tier NBA athletes is a huge mistake. I think the whole draft community has lost their minds with upside hopes for Kon.

I still love his floor. I don't see how his ceiling is higher than current Desmond Bane and I struggle to see him hitting that ceiling.

[FarBeyondDriven]

To me Kon is a pretty easy choice at #3, especially for a win now team now team like Philly. His numbers as a freshman were outstanding (10.8 BPM, 64% TS, 2:1 A/T, +34.7 net rating), and he has a skill set that can fit on any team.

The knock on him is his lack of elite athleticism, but he’s got good size and strength for a 2 guard, and the guy can just flat out play. You don’t need to project wild skill development the way you do with Bailey, Edgecombe, etc. He’s ready to play right now and he’s only going to get better with experience.

Don’t overthink it the way teams did with Haliburton and Brunson. Take the good player and let these other teams gamble on the “high upside” prospects.

Yes, just like don't overthink it with Dalton Knecht. Take him top 5 and bet he is ready to play now just like Hali and Brunson, he will be fine on defense...

It took Knecht 3 years to have a season on the level of Kon’s freshman year, and even then he wasn’t nearly as good. Kon was a better shooter at all levels (2, 3, and FT), a better ball handler, a better passer, all while being 20 lbs heavier.

And for all the concerns about Kon’s defense, the fact is he contributed to an elite defensive team all year. You can’t say the same about some of these other top prospects. He’ll be fine on that end.

incorrect. Knecht's 2nd season was akin to Kon's freshmen season and that is as being the #1 option and sole focus on opposing defenses unlike Kon who benefitted by being on a loaded team with all the focus on Flagg.

[zero rings]

Yes, just like don't overthink it with Dalton Knecht. Take him top 5 and bet he is ready to play now just like Hali and Brunson, he will be fine on defense...

It took Knecht 3 years to have a season on the level of Kon’s freshman year, and even then he wasn’t nearly as good. Kon was a better shooter at all levels (2, 3, and FT), a better ball handler, a better passer, all while being 20 lbs heavier.

And for all the concerns about Kon’s defense, the fact is he contributed to an elite defensive team all year. You can’t say the same about some of these other top prospects. He’ll be fine on that end.

incorrect. Knecht's 2nd season was akin to Kon's freshmen season and that is as being the #1 option and sole focus on opposing defenses unlike Kon who benefitted by being on a loaded team with all the focus on Flagg.

Actually, I stand corrected. It wasn’t Knecht’s 3rd year that was on the level of Kon’s freshman year. It was his 5th year. I completely forgot about the two years Dalton played at junior college.

So yeah, we’re comparing a 5th year senior to a freshman, which makes this comparison even more ridiculous.

Even then, Dalton didn’t show the ball handling, passing, and finishing ability of Kon. The only thing he did “better” was get up more shots.

[williambh3]

Knecht was like 5’10” when he was a freshman in college. Total outlier in terms of late development. If Kon follows the same curve he’ll be 7’2” steph curry!

[williambh3]

Or… maybe he ends up with a Ben McLemore / Nik Stauskas curve

[tmorgan]

I am prepared to give a big “I was wrong” speech to the Kon backers on here if they turn out right.

I’m not gonna write it in advance because I’m not worried about needing it.

He’ll be lucky to have more of a career than Kispert or Kennard. Des Bane? Why, because they’re both T-Rex guys? Don’t think so.

[williambh3]

I am prepared to give a big “I was wrong” speech to the Kon backers on here if they turn out right.

I’m not gonna write it in advance because I’m not worried about needing it.

He’ll be lucky to have more of a career than Kispert or Kennard. Des Bane? Why, because they’re both T-Rex guys? Don’t think so.

Rich man’s Sauce Castillo?

[tmorgan]

I am prepared to give a big “I was wrong” speech to the Kon backers on here if they turn out right.

I’m not gonna write it in advance because I’m not worried about needing it.

He’ll be lucky to have more of a career than Kispert or Kennard. Des Bane? Why, because they’re both T-Rex guys? Don’t think so.

Rich man’s Sauce Castillo?

I’m not gonna insult a prospect, even one I don’t like, even favorably, to Nik Stauskas.

Anyone with half a brain could see he was a college specialist, a Steve Alford type. Except Vivek, of course, because he’s Vivek.

[williambh3]

I thought I was dating myself with the McLemore & Sauce references

[tmorgan]

I thought I was dating myself with the McLemore & Sauce references

Mostly old people on archaic forums like this.

[zimpy27]

Can we call him "SweetJ McConnell"?

[JMAC3]

I am prepared to give a big “I was wrong” speech to the Kon backers on here if they turn out right.

I’m not gonna write it in advance because I’m not worried about needing it.

He’ll be lucky to have more of a career than Kispert or Kennard. Des Bane? Why, because they’re both T-Rex guys? Don’t think so.

Rich man’s Sauce Castillo?

Nick Stauskas
64.2% TS%
9.3 BPM
17.5 ppg, 3.3 assists with 0.9 Stocks

Kon
64.2% TS%
10.8 BPM
14.4 ppg, 2.7 assists, 1.2 stocks

[SeattleJazzFan]

I am prepared to give a big “I was wrong” speech to the Kon backers on here if they turn out right.

I’m not gonna write it in advance because I’m not worried about needing it.

He’ll be lucky to have more of a career than Kispert or Kennard. Des Bane? Why, because they’re both T-Rex guys? Don’t think so.

Rich man’s Sauce Castillo?

Nick Stauskas
64.2% TS%
9.3 BPM
17.5 ppg, 3.3 assists with 0.9 Stocks

Kon
64.2% TS%
10.8 BPM
14.4 ppg, 2.7 assists, 1.2 stocks

of course those are stauskas sophomore stats vs kon's frosh stats.

[JMAC3]

Rich man’s Sauce Castillo?

Nick Stauskas
64.2% TS%
9.3 BPM
17.5 ppg, 3.3 assists with 0.9 Stocks

Kon
64.2% TS%
10.8 BPM
14.4 ppg, 2.7 assists, 1.2 stocks

of course those are stauskas sophomore stats vs kon's frosh stats.

What should we do in these scenarios? What do you think is more valuable the players same season or the same season they were drafted?

Should we use Donovan Mitchell freshman season of 7.4 ppg for player comps or is it better to use his sophomore year of 15.6 ppg?
Same with Haliburton? 6.8 ppg. Is that more useful than using his 2nd year for player comps?
Jalen Williams 7.7 ppg as freshman. or 18 ppg as a Junior. Which was better at predicting what type of NBA player he would be?

If those are my two options then I think it makes more sense to use the most recent season they were drafted. I agree it is worth noting, but this obsession with trying to compare players draft season to non-draft season for others makes no sense to me.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I am prepared to give a big “I was wrong” speech to the Kon backers on here if they turn out right.

I’m not gonna write it in advance because I’m not worried about needing it.

He’ll be lucky to have more of a career than Kispert or Kennard. Des Bane? Why, because they’re both T-Rex guys? Don’t think so.

Rich man’s Sauce Castillo?

Nick Stauskas
64.2% TS%
9.3 BPM
17.5 ppg, 3.3 assists with 0.9 Stocks

Kon
64.2% TS%
10.8 BPM
14.4 ppg, 2.7 assists, 1.2 stocks

Freshman Stauskas was a bit worse, obviously.

19 Year-Old Kon: 2.6% Stocks, 33.9% FTR, 6.9 OBPM, 7.6% REB%, 15.7% AST, 64.2% TS%
19 Year-Old Nik: 2.0% Stocks, 29.2% FTR, 5.7 OBPM, 6.1% REB%, 7.6% AST, 63.4% TS%

Kon is a better defender, passer, playmaker, driver, foul drawer and rebounder.

I still think Joe Ingles is the best comparison for Kon, though we don't have good benchmarks for Joe Ingles at a similar age, but I imagine Kon to be ahead of Joe, developmentally, at Age 19. I feel like I am eating crazy pills seeing everyone compare Kon to McDermott or Kispert. Kon's dribble and floor game are miles ahead of both players at the same age, and that really can't be refuted from statistical analysis or film analysis. Kon is going to have some difficulties translating to the NBA, like most players in this draft not named Flagg for a variety of reasons, but Kon's on-ball skill for his size and feel for the game of basketball are towards the top of this draft.

Tyler Herro is a good comparison for Kon. Questions about his overall athleticism and if he can translate to be effective on-ball consistently, but a great shooter with a good feel for the game (High BBIQ).

A taller C.J. McCollum is an interesting one as well. C.J. really has gotten by with skill and not athleticism.

I see a lot of Khris Middleton in Kon's game as well, cerebral and relying on understanding change of speed and angles to get to their spots rather than blowing by players.

Klay Thompson who isn't a major +++ defender but can actually dribble.

I see something like Kispert as Kon's realistic floor, not his ceiling. Kispert doesn't have Kon's BBIQ or dribble game, but that's the general caliber player I see as a floor with minimal improvement (unlikely), including an inability to competently defend (unlikely given Kon's IQ and overall feel for the game as a team defender should be a clear + in that regard) and lack of development on-ball.

It is really hard to put a cap on a player's ceiling when they are outlier, Top 2-3 shooters in a draft class and have high BBIQ while showing signs of creation as a teenager in college. Tyler Herro made an all-star game, but Herro is also hitting his top 90% outcome. CJ McCollum was a sub-allstar for a half decade, also hit his 90% outcome. Middleton won a championship as a good 3rd option.

He might be Nik Stauskus, but that might is incredibly unlikely.