Luka Doncic part II

[UcanUwill]

I think Manu was easily better than Llull and Spanoulis, Better than Doncic too for sure. Doncic started the year like a GOAT, but he looked very ordinary as of late.

Manu in Europe - Manu never had a season close to as good as Llull did last year. Manu never carried teams on his back to finals and championships. He played in a super stacked team, which was easily the best team in Europe, and was one of several stars in the team.

Spanoulis carried teams with mid level or lower budgets to 4 finals and 2 championships, with only some help from Printezis in a couple years. No comparison at all in terms of impact and ability to change games.

Manu to Doncic - I honestly can't see any advantage for Manu on an individual level, other than athleticism and defense. Doncic is clearly better in every other way.

Manu has no become quite overrated as to what level of player he was in Europe, due to people that are NBA fans overrating what he did there. The same way people do it for Sabonis. Suddenly they became these unheard of untouchable players in Europe, when the actual fact was they were nothing all that special in EuroLeague.

I remember quite well, that for example, no one considered Manu to be as good as Bodiroga when he was in Europe. He was never thought as even in the discussion for best player in Europe, and people saying otherwise don't remember right, or simply don't know and assume it.

You can make an argument for Doncic being the best player in Europe, something Manu wasn't even in his mid 20s.

Well, Sabonis a age 40 had one of the best individual seasons in Euroleague history. Sponoulis over Manu I give you that, that OLY team was build very well around Spanoulis, just a bunch of defensive juggernauts and Spanoulis + Printezis leading the offense. SImilar to 2001 76ers team. What Spanoulis did with Olympiakos was more impressive, tho I dont think he was the better player obviously.

[Mirotic12]

UncanUwill, I apologise. There might be one parameter, significant one, which play against my claims. I don't remember but those Manu Eurolegue last year might be one of those seasons with very low scoring games. Like 52:56 or 57:61... In that circumstances Manus PIR might look much better?

Teams from that time were never able to beat NBA teams. Now the EuroLeague teams get multiple wins every time they have those preseason games. So the real thing to factor in is how much better the league is now. When Manu was playing, his team had the biggest budget, and no budget was over $15 million dollars.

Now every team except 2 have a budget over that, and the biggest budget is $60 million. Even with inflation, the difference is enormous. Manu played in that so-called "golden era" that so many people claim "was far better than now", when each season had 2-3 actual good teams out of 24-32, compared to now when you have 16 good teams out of 16.

Just think about it...a team with young Jaric, young Manu, Rigaudeau, young Andersen, young Becirovic, a young Smodis, Rashard Griffith, and a couple of OK role players, was super stacked at that time's standard, and was able to dominate Europe - today, they would just be one of 14 teams competing for the playoffs, with just a chance slight chance at the final four.

In reality, their roster today would be something comparable to what Khimki or Baskonia has, and yet in that time, they were fairly dominant. So the level of competition Doncic is playing against is also much higher.

Well, Sabonis a age 40 had one of the best individual seasons in Euroleague history. Sponoulis over Manu I give you that, that OLY team was build very well around Spanoulis, just a bunch of defensive juggernauts and Spanoulis + Printezis leading the offense. SImilar to 2001 76ers team. What Spanoulis did with Olympiakos was more impressive, tho I dont think he was the better player obviously.

I'm not saying Sabonis was not very good. He was arguably the best center ever in EuroLeague. The point is, NBA fans have turned him into European Wilt Chamberlain, and I mean in myths and legends, not in stats.

Based on what Sabonis actually did in 6 EuroLeague seasons = he was arguably best EuroLeague center. Based on how NBA fans talk about him, in Europe he was the greatest athlete that ever existed in world history. I mean seriously, he averaged 19/12 and won the EuroLeague one time....but NBA fans talk like he was a 10 time champion and averaged 50/30.

The exaggeration level is very extreme. On the other hand, people seem to mainly want to downgrade everything Doncic is doing at age 17, 18, 19, which is the opposite effect. I'm not saying Doncic is better than Manu was at his peak, just that he's better than Manu was in Europe.

[UcanUwill]

To contra argument stacked Bologna team, but its even more impressive that Manu averaged 16ppg. and such a stacked team, you know what I mean. He had to share usage with all these guys and still had ridiculous production. This is not like David Logan putting stats on Prokom team or something like that.

[Mirotic12]

To contra argument stacked Bologna team, but its even more impressive that Manu averaged 16ppg. and such a stacked team, you know what I mean. He had to share usage with all these guys and still had ridiculous production. This is not like David Logan putting stats on Prokom team or something like that.

That's definitely true. So those stats are very legit.

But most of the whole team was young, and clearly before even their prime

You had some players that were almost done with their careers,

Frosini
Abbio

then you had a whole bunch of guys that had not even hit their prime yet...

Manu
Andersen
Smodis
Becirovic (although it kind of ended up being his prime in a weird way because of injuries)
Jaric

and then

Rigaudeau (who was in his prime, but past his peak)
Rashard Griffith (who was kind of past his prime, but wasn't old yet)

I really don't think such a team could win EuroLeague today. It was literally mainly built around a bunch of early 20s aged players.

[Juree93]

Watch on YouTube

[AJ3]

Luka playing vs Barcelona today, this game Will be very telling because the whole Real Madrid team should be super motivated to win it, also i bet Luka is going to be on fire tonight.

[No-Man]

I was there for Copa del Rey, live and Doncic was sluggish, moving slower than usual, and still would've been the MVP had Madrid won, I had a vote and voted for him and Heurtel, honestly, the fact that he produces regardless of his game is a star-trait.

I think he needs to cut some weight and change his physique quite a bit to be at his best also.

[XTraderXL]

I was there for Copa del Rey, live and Doncic was sluggish, moving slower than usual, and still would've been the MVP had Madrid won, I had a vote and voted for him and Heurtel, honestly, the fact that he produces regardless of his game is a star-trait.

I think he needs to cut some weight and change his physique quite a bit to be at his best also.

Thats the point. What he needs most is work on his body. His legs and core need a lot of work, his shoulders and arms have no muscle definition. I wouldnt say he has to cut weight, he should lower the body fat % and increase muscle mass. Just by doing that he will increase his explosiveness, speed and quickness. The good thing is that working on your body is just a question of discipline and dedication and if he has that, it should be fairly easy to improve in these areas. You can do wonders with your body with just 2-3 months of hard work in the weightroom.

The basketball part doesnt concern me, he has more than enough natural basketball talent so he can focus most of his time this summer to his physical development. That will be the key for him and am very optimistic because I know that he will have everyting he needs at his disposal to change his body. If he does not however, its all on him and he will be an above average starter but never a star in the NBA.

For me his projected ceiling basically comes down to believing in his work ethic which I think is at a very high level so he should be able to do what is necessary to be a star in the NBA.

[Mirotic12]

I was there for Copa del Rey, live and Doncic was sluggish, moving slower than usual, and still would've been the MVP had Madrid won, I had a vote and voted for him and Heurtel, honestly, the fact that he produces regardless of his game is a star-trait.

I think he needs to cut some weight and change his physique quite a bit to be at his best also.

I watched and Pau Ribas was 100% the actual real MVP. It wasn't even close either. He was very clearly robbed of the award, with people wrongly voting for Doncic or Heurtel.

[blazeyo]

Why isn't Luka on the floor?

[UcanUwill]

Barcelona looks pathetic. Doncic finally subbed in

[blazeyo]

Doncic is pretty bad. I hope he gains explosiveness once he reaches the NBA cause that's his only chance at being a superstar.

[UcanUwill]

Hate to being reactionary, but Doncic stock is falling down hard as of late. Doesnt look like a sure thing at all.

[KD95]

Jeez, I think he's clearly hit rock bottom for this season. Physically, mentally, shooting-wise. He was actually quite useful in terms of rebounds and assists, but his shooting is flat out terrible at this point. Also, he has got to learn to control himself. That foul he committed after he had a TO was 100% because he was pissed he didn't get the foul called.

Good thing is that we're at February, so there's plenty time to get back to his previous level.

[blazeyo]

It's a bummer. I see some very glaring red flags when I watch him and they are mostly related to his athleticism and shot creation abilities for others off the dribble in isolation(other than to create his own step back jumper which he can't make right now). I really want him to succeed in the NBA and I want to be hopeful that these things can be improved on.

On the other hand, Bogdan Bogdanovic looks slower to me in the NBA than he did in Europe.

[Nikson]

It’s ok. He is just a young man. And Laso is teaching him how to behave. He was just benched.

[KD95]

Hate to being reactionary, but Doncic stock is falling down hard as of late. Doesnt look like a sure thing at all.

While he hasn't been playing well lately, I do think that's a bit reactionary.

Since the start of the Slovenian practice matches and Eurobasket up until the end of December, he consistently played at an incredibly high level, and I'd say even in January he was pretty good in general, although obviously worse than his previous level. His February was pretty bad, but I think it's normal for every player, regardless of their level, to have a dip in performance sometime during the season. With these last 2 matches, I think he's hit the bottom of the slope.

I think the next 2 games in EL at home against Fener and Pana (both of which are incredibly important for Real) will be crucial for Doncic. If he plays well it will be a good indication that he's returning back to his usual level, however, if he underperforms in those games as well, I think that's when this whole thing starts to become really concerning, and that's when his draft position could take a hit (especially if Porter start playing, and he shows good signs).

[RookieStar]

You know.. I had an interesting basketball related conversation with someone and he just brought this up to me while I was telling him how high I was on Doncic. He asked me if I was sure Doncic was coming over to the NBA next season.

Got me to thinking, are there any speed bumps that would make him not come over next season? More importantly, does he want to come over? Sorry if I was asking this cuz you know... magic fan/Fran Vasquez history/etc etc

[No-Man]

I was there for Copa del Rey, live and Doncic was sluggish, moving slower than usual, and still would've been the MVP had Madrid won, I had a vote and voted for him and Heurtel, honestly, the fact that he produces regardless of his game is a star-trait.

I think he needs to cut some weight and change his physique quite a bit to be at his best also.

I watched and Pau Ribas was 100% the actual real MVP. It wasn't even close either. He was very clearly robbed of the award, with people wrongly voting for Doncic or Heurtel.

The award is for the whole tournament not only for the final, Ribas was better in the final game but Heurtel had the best tournament overall, the votes for Doncic don’t affect nothing you could choose one guy from each team, Ribas wasn’t competing for the award with Luka regardless

[No-Man]

Doncic is 18 and has played a ton, like IF you add up he is gonna end up with more than twice as many games as any college player, and he played the whole eurobasket its quite normal to hit a Wall physically considering the load he has to Carry for Madrid also that has had plenty of players out, like Trae Young is struggling and he plays worse teams and has played much less

Luka to me greks like he has 0 legs and the fact that he reacts badly at times to frustration shouldn’t surprise anybody he is a kid