Luka Doncic part II

[Mirotic12]

Regarding Weems, he was the best wing in the Euroleague for at least a couple of years, playing for CSKA. He was a dominant player in the Euroleague, that is a fact.

And about the NCAA-EuroLeague comparation, I want to add that you need to pay attention at the top of the competition. There are more mediocre and average players in the EuroLeague, but the top TALENT is in the NCAA.

The best players in the NCAA have tremendous potential and would be probably the top players in the EuroLeague. Ayton, Young, Bridges, Carter.........and a lot more would be big time players in the EuroLeague right now, at least full time starters.

Weems was never the best wing in Europe.

Weems was never a dominant EuroLeague player.

Saying Weems was best wing in Europe, and a dominant EuroLeague player, is the equivalent of saying Nicolas Batum is best wing in NBA, and Nicolas Batum is a dominant NBA player.

More or less, Weems was basically EuroLeague's version of Nicolas Batum. At the best case scenario....he was EuroLeague's version of Paul George (maybe when he had his A game going).

I don't think a single serious EuroLeague fan would ever claim Weems was LeBron of EuroLeague.....I think 90% of them would laugh at the mere thought of it.

NCAA - EuroLeague argument...again, personal contrary opinions, that don't match up to actual facts.

It's your opinion that the best NCAA players would be the best EuroLeague players. It's your opinion that a whole bunch of other NCAA players would be big time EuroLeague players...........

The facts are that 1% of NCAA players ever play a single NBA or EuroLeague game. As a couple of other posters in this thread have already asked, "why is it so hard for some people to accept this?"

[Saberestar]

Regarding Weems, he was the best wing in the Euroleague for at least a couple of years, playing for CSKA. He was a dominant player in the Euroleague, that is a fact.

And about the NCAA-EuroLeague comparation, I want to add that you need to pay attention at the top of the competition. There are more mediocre and average players in the EuroLeague, but the top TALENT is in the NCAA.

The best players in the NCAA have tremendous potential and would be probably the top players in the EuroLeague. Ayton, Young, Bridges, Carter.........and a lot more would be big time players in the EuroLeague right now, at least full time starters.

Weems was never the best wing in Europe.

Weems was never a dominant EuroLeague player.

Saying Weems was best wing in Europe, and a dominant EuroLeague player, is the equivalent of saying Nicolas Batum is best wing in NBA, and Nicolas Batum is a dominant NBA player.

More or less, Weems was basically EuroLeague's version of Nicolas Batum. At the best case scenario....he was EuroLeague's version of Paul George (maybe when he had his A game going).

I don't think a single serious EuroLeague fan would ever claim Weems was LeBron of EuroLeague.....I think 90% of them would laugh at the mere thought of it.

NCAA - EuroLeague argument...again, personal contrary opinions, that don't match up to actual facts.

It's your opinion that the best NCAA players would be the best EuroLeague players. It's your opinion that a whole bunch of other NCAA players would be big time EuroLeague players...........

The facts are that 1% of NCAA players ever play a single NBA or EuroLeague game. As a couple of other posters in this thread have already asked, "why is it so hard for some people to accept this?"

Well, I am not alone thinking that Weems was a dominant player in the EuroLeague...

Read on Twitter

[Mirotic12]

Well, I am not alone thinking that Weems was a dominant player in the EuroLeague...

I've never met a EuroLeague fan who thought he was even close to that. Regardless, my opinion and your opinion aside (again, opinions, not facts) - we have actual facts. Actual facts are....no, he was most definitely not LeBron of EuroLeague, he was definitely not best wing in EuroLeague for 2 years, and he was definitely not a dominant EuroLeague player.

You might find a lot of people with the personal opinion that Bradley Beal is the best wing in NBA, and is in fact the real "LeBron of NBA".....However, the actual true fact remains that he isn't, and those are just some very small minority personal opinions that are contrary to the actual fact of the matter.

Your personal opinion does not make something true, unless it happens to be that the truth is the same thing as your personal opinion.

Your personal opinion = Sonny Weems was LeBron of EuroLeague, best wing in EuroLeague, a dominant EuroLeague player.

Fact = he was none of those things at all.

It's always important to distinguish between the two. It's perfectly fine for you to think that about Weems, you are entitled to your own opinion. But when your own opinion isn't factually correct (tons of evidence very clearly shows it isn't), then it needs to be pointed out.

Because when you don't say something like, "In my own personal opinion, Sonny Weems was X, Y, Z of EuroLeague", and when you instead say, "it is a fact that Sonny Weems was X, Y, Z of EuroLeague" - you are not being at all in the least slightest big objective.

[Saberestar]

Well, I am not alone thinking that Weems was a dominant player in the EuroLeague...

I've never met a EuroLeague fan who thought he was even close to that. Regardless, my opinion and your opinion aside (again, opinions, not facts) - we have actual facts. Actual facts are....no, he was most definitely not LeBron of EuroLeague, he was definitely not best wing in EuroLeague for 2 years, and he was definitely not a dominant EuroLeague player.

You might find a lot of people with the personal opinion that Bradley Beal is the best wing in NBA, and is in fact the real "LeBron of NBA".....However, the actual true fact remains that he isn't, and those are just some very small minority personal opinions that are contrary to the actual fact of the matter.

Your personal opinion does not make something true, unless it happens to be that the truth is the same thing as your personal opinion.

Your personal opinion = Sonny Weems was LeBron of EuroLeague, best wing in EuroLeague, a dominant EuroLeague player

Fact = he was none of those things at all

It's always important to distinguish between the two. It's perfectly fine for you to think that about Weems, you are entitled to your own opinion. But when your own opinion isn't factually correct (tons of evidence very clearly shows it isn't), then it needs to be pointed out.

Because when you don't say something like, "In my own personal opinion, Sonny Weems was X, Y, Z of EuroLeague", and when you instead say, "it is a fact that Sonny Weems was X, Y, Z of EuroLeague" - you are not being at all in the least slightest big objective.

Come on, no need to go that far with all of that. I will give you that I exaggerated with the LeBron comparation, but Weems was a great player for CSKA.

And do you think that David Pick is not an EuroLeague fan? He is EuroWoj, he knows his thing.

[UcanUwill]

Weems was a pretty damn great Euroleague player, but I feel he needs high IQ teammates to get the best of him. He just signed with dysfunctional Efes team, and I feel like it can be a disaster.

[Nikson]

So basically we went from Le Bron to disaster in 2-3 pages. Nonchalantly.

[RookieStar]

How did this Doncic thread become a Sony Weems/LBJ thread?

Anyhoo... you think any teams will still pick him top-3 if he says he will come not come over next season yet? In a very top-loaded draft, any of the tanking teams willing to do that?

[XTraderXL]

Weems was an OK/good player in CSKA and nothing more than that. Fare from great or dominant. He looked better than he really is because he had good team mates, good coaching and played on one of the best teams in EL for that period. If he was a Euroleague LeBron, Doncic is a Magic/Jordan/Kobe/Shaq all roled into one.

[Geaux_Hawks]

FWIW, we have seen top American prospects go overseas to lesser talented leagues than Euroleague and not completely dominate.

A lot of college guys look dominant in college because they're pretty much playing against other raw players like themselves. Which is why a HYPER athletic or matured body guy can flourish in college, but flame out in the NBA.

That's not to say the NCAA is weak though. Just stating that Euroleague has it's advantage of having guys with more years of experience in a pro setting helps doncic case as being an impressive prospect to have been able to compete on that level and shown bright spots.

[Mirotic12]

Weems was a pretty damn great Euroleague player, but I feel he needs high IQ teammates to get the best of him. He just signed with dysfunctional Efes team, and I feel like it can be a disaster.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003443#!careerstats

Zalgiris (a bad team)

15.5 points
5.0 rebounds
1.3 assists
12.7 PIR

CSKA (a team that underachieved every year he was there)

13.7 points
2.9 rebounds
2.1 assists
11.8 PIR

12.2 points
3.5 rebounds
3.7 assists
12.4 PIR

13.1 points
4.0 rebounds
3.4 assists
11.8 PIR

Maccabi (a bad team)

11.6 points
3.3 rebounds
3.4 assists
11.1 PIR

That production...first with Zalgiris, which was a bad team, when he played there.

Then with CSKA, that was a very good team when he played there, but he was usually no more than the 4th or 5th best player on the team. Think about some of the players during that time in CSKA - Khryapa, Kaun, Teodosic, De Colo, Kirilenko, Vorontsevich, A. Jackson, Krstic, Hines....at no time was Weems even the team's 3rd best player. And let's not forget that when he played in CSKA, they lost 3 straight times in the EuroLeague semifinals, despite having the league's biggest budget every year.

Then with Maccabi, that was a bad team when he played there...

It's at most a very good EuroLeague player (and less than that in Maccabi). Very good maybe at his best, but certainly far away from being "great". It's also light years away from being "LeBron of EuroLeague", as was originally argued.

Weems at his absolute best in EuroLeague = nowhere near as good as Doncic is right now.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Give mirotic12 an inch he will argue about euroleague for hours. Lets just stop arguing with him about how great euroleague is. He thinks its great and his mind wont change, so lets agree euroleague is a great, great league.

[Thespianoid]

Give mirotic12 an inch he will argue about euroleague for hours. Lets just stop arguing with him about how great euroleague is. He thinks its great and his mind wont change, so lets agree euroleague is a great, great league.

you're not wrong, but it seems like you've also missed the entire point of his post?

if someone asserts that Sonny Weems was dominant in the Euroleague as an example to discount the quality of the competition relative to the NBA/NCAA, and is rebutted by evidence showing that Weems did not in any shape or form dominate the Euroleague...

why hate on the poster? the information is good.

[burek3]

Because people don't like to be proven wrong.

[buzzkilloton]

The team Doncic plays on real madrid beat the thunder last year in OT in a preseason game. 142-137. No way a ncaa team would ever beat Westbrook/Oladipo/Kanter/Adams NO FKN way! That right there shows you the talent level diff between NCAA and top Euro league teams.

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2017/3/1/how-the-real-madrid-basketball-team-could-actually-stack-up

Playing men is alot diff then playing boys in college. I dont even know how people havent figured this out its 2018 here.

Sure the top prospects in the NCAA almost always better then the top Euro prospects. The average player is NOT better though. Theirs a big diff between playing men and boys.

[Rn5ho]

He's turning 19 today.

[SportsGuy8]

The team Doncic plays on real madrid beat the thunder last year in OT in a preseason game. 142-137. No way a ncaa team would ever beat Westbrook/Oladipo/Kanter/Adams NO FKN way! That right there shows you the talent level diff between NCAA and top Euro league teams.

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2017/3/1/how-the-real-madrid-basketball-team-could-actually-stack-up

Playing men is alot diff then playing boys in college. I dont even know how people havent figured this out its 2018 here.

Sure the top prospects in the NCAA almost always better then the top Euro prospects. The average player is NOT better though. Theirs a big diff between playing men and boys.

Not only that, the defensive schemes in the NCAA are also very primitive, to say the least. They keep bringing up NCAA supposedly having better 1on1 defenders, but even if that was true (it really shouldn't be, though; mature men are mostly still better 1on1 defenders due to strength and experiences), they still forget about actual defensive schemes. Bad positioning, team defense, even plain mistakes / brain-farts ... make the game a whole lot easier for offensive players.

[p0peye]

The team Doncic plays on real madrid beat the thunder last year in OT in a preseason game. 142-137. No way a ncaa team would ever beat Westbrook/Oladipo/Kanter/Adams NO FKN way! That right there shows you the talent level diff between NCAA and top Euro league teams.

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2017/3/1/how-the-real-madrid-basketball-team-could-actually-stack-up

Playing men is alot diff then playing boys in college. I dont even know how people havent figured this out its 2018 here.

Sure the top prospects in the NCAA almost always better then the top Euro prospects. The average player is NOT better though. Theirs a big diff between playing men and boys.

You surely are aware that University World games exist and that since 2001 USA NCAA teams won only 2 gold medals, 1 silver and 2 bronze? For comparison, Serbia with population of bit more than 6 million has 4 gold, 1 silver and 2 bronze medals in same time span. Lithuania and Russia also had as much success as USA.

That doesn't bode well for assumption that NCAA talent is superior to rest of the world.

[burek3]

I don't think this is much faster than fresh pre-Feb Doncic...

Watch on YouTube

[SportsGuy8]

Watch on YouTube

The defender was obviously a much inferior player, but on the other hand, Doncic was only 18.

[UcanUwill]

Give mirotic12 an inch he will argue about euroleague for hours. Lets just stop arguing with him about how great euroleague is. He thinks its great and his mind wont change, so lets agree euroleague is a great, great league.

you're not wrong, but it seems like you've also missed the entire point of his post?

if someone asserts that Sonny Weems was dominant in the Euroleague as an example to discount the quality of the competition relative to the NBA/NCAA, and is rebutted by evidence showing that Weems did not in any shape or form dominate the Euroleague...

why hate on the poster? the information is good.

Mirotic is right here, I wouldn't call Weems dominant Euroleague, there really aren't any really dominant players in Euroleague, maybe Nando De Colo nowadays? But the guy is right about arguing with Mirotic lol. Mirotic will hypocritically claim or cherry pick anything that proves Euroleague is great. I understand that tactic, because I used to be that guy myself when I was young, I was hypocritical fanboy.