2021 NBA Draft

[fteru6uhre54ew]

If you guys want to see a 19 years old kid dominating a game on defense and outmuscling everyone vesus grown mans. Watch the first game of the Semifinals of the ACB Valencia vs Real Madrid

[Charm]

If you guys want to see a 19 years old kid dominating a game on defense and outmuscling everyone vesus grown mans. Watch the first game of the Semifinals of the ACB Valencia vs Real Madrid

The phase "can guard 1-5" gets thrown around too loosely. Garuba's one of the very few who can actually do it and do it well. Pick any NBA star and ask who's the best player in this draft to defend him, and the answer's gonna be Garuba.

If he can just hit enough 3's to be vaguely useful on offense he'll fit like a glove on any NBA team.

[fteru6uhre54ew]

If you guys want to see a 19 years old kid dominating a game on defense and outmuscling everyone vesus grown mans. Watch the first game of the Semifinals of the ACB Valencia vs Real Madrid

The phase "can guard 1-5" gets thrown around too loosely. Garuba's one of the very few who can actually do it and do it well. Pick any NBA star and ask who's the best player in this draft to defend him, and the answer's gonna be Garuba.

If he can just hit enough 3's to be vaguely useful on offense he'll fit like a glove on any NBA team.

He doesn't have any weakness on defense man it's amazing seeing him. A kid with 19 years old carry a defense and anchor a team at this level with his age. He has the perfect body for defense and more important the mentality say that this kid only has 19 it's hard things like that are really hard to do at his age.

If the team that draft him grow him on offense because he has the tools to be a good offensive player but in a team like Real Madrid it's hard more in his position he can be amazing on both sides.

[Charm]

If you guys want to see a 19 years old kid dominating a game on defense and outmuscling everyone vesus grown mans. Watch the first game of the Semifinals of the ACB Valencia vs Real Madrid

The phase "can guard 1-5" gets thrown around too loosely. Garuba's one of the very few who can actually do it and do it well. Pick any NBA star and ask who's the best player in this draft to defend him, and the answer's gonna be Garuba.

If he can just hit enough 3's to be vaguely useful on offense he'll fit like a glove on any NBA team.

He doesn't have any weakness on defense man it's amazing seeing him. A kid with 19 years old carry a defense and anchor a team at this level with his age. He has the perfect body for defense and more important the mentality say that this kid only has 19 it's hard things like that are really hard to do at his age.

If the team that draft him grow him on offense because he has the tools to be a good offensive player but in a team like Real Madrid it's hard more in his position he can be amazing on both sides.

I'm worried he's a lot like Ibaka on offense, where he's not a complete zero, but he just doesn't have the handle/touch to create offense on his own. Still, if in his prime he's scoring an efficient ~15ppg on 3's and dunks while being a perennial All-Defensive Team guy, then he's a top-5 player in pretty much any draft. And I think that's a very attainable ceiling for him.

[fteru6uhre54ew]

The phase "can guard 1-5" gets thrown around too loosely. Garuba's one of the very few who can actually do it and do it well. Pick any NBA star and ask who's the best player in this draft to defend him, and the answer's gonna be Garuba.

If he can just hit enough 3's to be vaguely useful on offense he'll fit like a glove on any NBA team.

He doesn't have any weakness on defense man it's amazing seeing him. A kid with 19 years old carry a defense and anchor a team at this level with his age. He has the perfect body for defense and more important the mentality say that this kid only has 19 it's hard things like that are really hard to do at his age.

If the team that draft him grow him on offense because he has the tools to be a good offensive player but in a team like Real Madrid it's hard more in his position he can be amazing on both sides.

I'm worried he's a lot like Ibaka on offense, where he's not a complete zero, but he just doesn't have the handle/touch to create offense on his own. Still, if in his prime he's scoring an efficient ~15ppg on 3's and dunks while being a perennial All-Defensive Team guy, then he's a top-5 player in pretty much any draft. And I think that's a very attainable ceiling for him.

I think he has a much better game below the basket than Serge who was a player more explosive that played more above the rim. I saw him doing coast to coast with regularity versus youth teams he has an amazing low gravity center and a much better vision. If the team put him in better positions to be sucesfull with the ball in his hands he can flourish on offense ala Adebayo or guys like this in this today game. It's on him too and how much he work on his game and if he has the same confidence and aggressiveness on offense than he has on the other aspects of the game

[Charm]

He doesn't have any weakness on defense man it's amazing seeing him. A kid with 19 years old carry a defense and anchor a team at this level with his age. He has the perfect body for defense and more important the mentality say that this kid only has 19 it's hard things like that are really hard to do at his age.

If the team that draft him grow him on offense because he has the tools to be a good offensive player but in a team like Real Madrid it's hard more in his position he can be amazing on both sides.

I'm worried he's a lot like Ibaka on offense, where he's not a complete zero, but he just doesn't have the handle/touch to create offense on his own. Still, if in his prime he's scoring an efficient ~15ppg on 3's and dunks while being a perennial All-Defensive Team guy, then he's a top-5 player in pretty much any draft. And I think that's a very attainable ceiling for him.

I think he has a much better game below the basket than Serge who was a player more explosive that played more above the rim. I saw him doing coast to coast with regularity versus youth teams he has an amazing low gravity center and a much better vision. If the team put him in better positions to be sucesfull with the ball in his hands he can flourish on offense ala Adebayo or guys like this in this today game. It's on him too and how much he work on his game and if he has the same confidence and aggressiveness on offense than he has on the other parts of the game

I think Garuba's passing is an underrated asset relative to some other young defensive-minded bigs. Also sets great screens, and is generally a very intelligent offensive player, moreso than Ibaka was. Still, I feel like the ball slows him down when he dribbles, and he probably shoots under 50% in the paint on non-dunks. Part of the problem is Real Madrid showing absolutely zero interest in expanding his offensive role, so maybe he will begin to develop if he's given more freedom in the NBA.

[EMG518]

Problem for me with him is offenses have figured out defenses. I rather an offensive player I can coach up on defense than a defensive player who needs to develop an offensive game. If there were flashes of the tools on offense it would be one thing but he looks super limited in my opinion.

[fteru6uhre54ew]

Problem for me with him is offenses have figured out defenses. I rather an offensive player I can coach up on defense than a defensive player who needs to develop an offensive game. If there were flashes of the tools on offense it would be one thing but he looks super limited in my opinion.

I can tell you that the rol he has on Real on offense has been making look worst that what really he is on offense and is hard to grow in a rol like that he is just standing in a corner spreading the floor most of the time being a reference on offense at the PF in Real it's impossible for the style of the coach and because in the Euroleague all the teams put the ball in the hands of the Point Guard or SG it's not like the Nba where everyone can be much more free in Real the Pf's they just stand in a corner spreading the floor when he has been playing at center he has been playing more agressive on offense because he has been more involved in the flow of the offense.

He always going to have a really good vision and basketball awareness he is an amazing and relentless rebounder at least he is going clean the trash a lot of times he has a really good footwork and endless motor win a lot of 50/50 balls. It's not just individual points the kid is like a Swiss knife right now I mean he has things of a really good mature player but other ones still has to be worked like a kid he is and still need to grow. The life in the first level of Europe in a team like Real at his age is not easy you don't have any kid close of that at 19 in Europe it is what it is.

[Charm]

Problem for me with him is offenses have figured out defenses. I rather an offensive player I can coach up on defense than a defensive player who needs to develop an offensive game. If there were flashes of the tools on offense it would be one thing but he looks super limited in my opinion.

Pretty much completely disagree. How many players were average defenders at lower levels and went on to become good or great defensive players in the NBA? Seems more common that raw offensive players make big developmental leaps and become great.

How do you solve a problem like Garuba (to the tune of "how do you solve a problem like Maria")? You can solve defensive schemes, but you can't solve a great individual defender.

[Onus]

Can someone explain to me why Trey Murphy is universally a really late 1st/early second guy, and not in the 15-25 range anywhere? I don't watch much college ball and usually just try to play catchup later, but I like his game at the next level

He's probably seen as a low ceiling guy

He doesn't do a lot other than shoot - which he does very well. Also, I think he was considered the 3rd most reliable player on UVA - behind both Hauser and Huff - that has a psychological effect. I think all 3 are underrated.

I kind of really want the warriors to draft him at 14. I know he’s mocked late 1st early 2nd but his archetype is exactly what everyone is looking. An elite shooter that plays defense? You can never have too many of those.

[Charm]

I like Murphy's archetype too, but big picture, he was just a solid starter on a nothing-special Virginia team. He didn't even make the honorable mentions list for the All-ACC 3rd team. And he's turning 21 in a week. Seems like the kind of guy who'll have a nice 10 year roleplayer career in Europe, not in the NBA.

[fteru6uhre54ew]

Problem for me with him is offenses have figured out defenses. I rather an offensive player I can coach up on defense than a defensive player who needs to develop an offensive game. If there were flashes of the tools on offense it would be one thing but he looks super limited in my opinion.

Pretty much completely disagree. How many players were average defenders at lower levels and went on to become good or great defensive players in the NBA? Seems more common that raw offensive players make big developmental leaps and become great.

How do you solve a problem like Garuba (to the tune of "how do you solve a problem like Maria")? You can solve defensive schemes, but you can't solve a great individual defender.

Problem is that Usman is an specimen on defense not just individual but to help and read the offense of the opposite team as an anchor he know how to denie pick and rolls or read the advantage that the opposite team has and be in the right place too well. Like Luka has that mind on offense this kid as the same mind but on defense. And then he has a nonstop motor with his physical attributes. He can be now the best defender in Europe for example Edy that has won the Dpoy of the Euroleague is not a best defender than Usman he is no close to give the versatility that Usman give.

He can be the best defender in the Nba.

[Charm]

Problem for me with him is offenses have figured out defenses. I rather an offensive player I can coach up on defense than a defensive player who needs to develop an offensive game. If there were flashes of the tools on offense it would be one thing but he looks super limited in my opinion.

Pretty much completely disagree. How many players were average defenders at lower levels and went on to become good or great defensive players in the NBA? Seems more common that raw offensive players make big developmental leaps and become great.

How do you solve a problem like Garuba (to the tune of "how do you solve a problem like Maria")? You can solve defensive schemes, but you can't solve a great individual defender.

Problem is that Usman is an specimen on defense not just individual but to help and read the offense of the opposite team as an anchor he know how to denie pick and rolls or read the advantage that the opposite team has and be in the right place too well. Like Luka has that mind on offense this kid as the same mind but on defense. And then he has a nonstop motor with his physical attributes. He can be now the best defender in Europe for example Edy that has won the Dpoy of the Euroleague is not a best defender than Usman he is no close to give the versatility that Usman give.

He can be the best defender in the Nba.

Yeah...no defender is unbeatable, but he's pretty close. Probably only a handful of NBA players are quick enough to blow by him, long enough to shoot over him, or strong enough to bully him. And he's only going to get better. I don't know what the gameplan is to score on a defender who's basically a supersized Tony Allen. You pass the ball to someone else, I guess.

In practice the last couple years he's probably been guarding everyone from 5'10" Campazzo to 7'3" Tavares, and it shows. His versatility on that end is unlike anything I've ever seen.

[Ruzious]

I like Murphy's archetype too, but big picture, he was just a solid starter on a nothing-special Virginia team. He didn't even make the honorable mentions list for the All-ACC 3rd team. And he's turning 21 in a week. Seems like the kind of guy who'll have a nice 10 year roleplayer career in Europe, not in the NBA.

He's got a 7'1 wingspan - just 1 inch shorter than Garuba's. And playing the last season with UVA made a big difference with his defense. He's also 2 years younger than Cam Johnson was when he got drafted 11th, and he's the same kind of shooter.

[Charm]

I like Murphy's archetype too, but big picture, he was just a solid starter on a nothing-special Virginia team. He didn't even make the honorable mentions list for the All-ACC 3rd team. And he's turning 21 in a week. Seems like the kind of guy who'll have a nice 10 year roleplayer career in Europe, not in the NBA.

He's got a 7'1 wingspan - just 1 inch shorter than Garuba's. And playing the last season with UVA made a big difference with his defense. He's also 2 years younger than Cam Johnson was when he got drafted 11th, and he's the same kind of shooter.

Yeah, but Cam Johnson was the leading scorer and clear best player on a top-10 team in the country. Murphy's similarities to Johnson end at the jumpshot, and his similarities to Garuba end at the wingspan. He's just a very middling kind of player on both ends of the court, and I don't see a whole lot of potential for him to expand his game.

[Ruzious]

I like Murphy's archetype too, but big picture, he was just a solid starter on a nothing-special Virginia team. He didn't even make the honorable mentions list for the All-ACC 3rd team. And he's turning 21 in a week. Seems like the kind of guy who'll have a nice 10 year roleplayer career in Europe, not in the NBA.

He's got a 7'1 wingspan - just 1 inch shorter than Garuba's. And playing the last season with UVA made a big difference with his defense. He's also 2 years younger than Cam Johnson was when he got drafted 11th, and he's the same kind of shooter.

Yeah, but Cam Johnson was the leading scorer and clear best player on a top-10 team in the country. Murphy's similarities to Johnson end at the jumpshot, and his similarities to Garuba end at the wingspan. He's just a very middling kind of player on both ends of the court, and I don't see a whole lot of potential for him to expand his game.

No Cam wasn't. The UNC team was very balanced, he was a 1 dimensional player, and he was 23. Coby White was arguably their best player, and Luke Maye... had better all-around stats than Cam did. Not to mention, UVA was also a top 10 team for a good portion of the season and was 15th in the final AP Poll despite a disappointing finish - which was caused in large part by COVID problems - they weren't allowed to practice.

[Charm]

He's got a 7'1 wingspan - just 1 inch shorter than Garuba's. And playing the last season with UVA made a big difference with his defense. He's also 2 years younger than Cam Johnson was when he got drafted 11th, and he's the same kind of shooter.

Yeah, but Cam Johnson was the leading scorer and clear best player on a top-10 team in the country. Murphy's similarities to Johnson end at the jumpshot, and his similarities to Garuba end at the wingspan. He's just a very middling kind of player on both ends of the court, and I don't see a whole lot of potential for him to expand his game.

No Cam wasn't. The UNC team was very balanced, he was a 1 dimensional player, and he was 23. Coby White was arguably their best player, and Luke Maye... had better all-around stats than Cam did. Not to mention, UVA was also a top 10 team for a good portion of the season and was 15th in the final AP Poll despite a disappointing finish - which was caused in large part by COVID problems - they weren't allowed to practice.

I don't want to get too down in the weeds on this comparison...if not for Zion, Johnson would've been in the thick of the ACC POY conversation. He nearly put up nearly double Murphy's numbers across the board. I can see Murphy as a poor man's Cam Johnson, but I don't think a poor man's Cam Johnson is worth a first rounder.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, but Cam Johnson was the leading scorer and clear best player on a top-10 team in the country. Murphy's similarities to Johnson end at the jumpshot, and his similarities to Garuba end at the wingspan. He's just a very middling kind of player on both ends of the court, and I don't see a whole lot of potential for him to expand his game.

No Cam wasn't. The UNC team was very balanced, he was a 1 dimensional player, and he was 23. Coby White was arguably their best player, and Luke Maye... had better all-around stats than Cam did. Not to mention, UVA was also a top 10 team for a good portion of the season and was 15th in the final AP Poll despite a disappointing finish - which was caused in large part by COVID problems - they weren't allowed to practice.

I don't want to get too down in the weeds on this comparison...if not for Zion, Johnson would've been in the thick of the ACC POY conversation. He nearly put up nearly double Murphy's numbers across the board. I can see Murphy as a poor man's Cam Johnson, but I don't think a poor man's Cam Johnson is worth a first rounder.

Again, we're talking about a 23 year old 5th year player (Johnson) vs a 21 year old 3rd year player, and Johnson didn't do anything well other than shoot throughout his 5 college seasons. Murphy's 3 seasons were very similar to Johnson's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons. If he stayed for his senior year, I think the odds are real good he'd put up significantly better numbers playing a 2nd year under Bennett. Remember, UVA plays at a very slow pace, so their numbers are affected by that. That could be a legit concern - that he'll have to adjust to a faster pace in the NBA.

[Charm]

No Cam wasn't. The UNC team was very balanced, he was a 1 dimensional player, and he was 23. Coby White was arguably their best player, and Luke Maye... had better all-around stats than Cam did. Not to mention, UVA was also a top 10 team for a good portion of the season and was 15th in the final AP Poll despite a disappointing finish - which was caused in large part by COVID problems - they weren't allowed to practice.

I don't want to get too down in the weeds on this comparison...if not for Zion, Johnson would've been in the thick of the ACC POY conversation. He nearly put up nearly double Murphy's numbers across the board. I can see Murphy as a poor man's Cam Johnson, but I don't think a poor man's Cam Johnson is worth a first rounder.

Again, we're talking about a 23 year old 5th year player (Johnson) vs a 21 year old 3rd year player, and Johnson didn't do anything well other than shoot throughout his 5 college seasons. Murphy's 3 seasons were very similar to Johnson's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons. If he stayed for his senior year, I think the odds are real good he'd put up significantly better numbers playing a 2nd year under Bennett. Remember, UVA plays at a very slow pace, so their numbers are affected by that. That could be a legit concern - that he'll have to adjust to a faster pace in the NBA.

I know the raw counting stats on Virginia guys are a bit misleading. I guess my main point is, if I'm gonna draft an upperclassman in the first round, I want to be confident that he's a top-10 player in the NCAA, *maybe* top-20 if I really like the specific skills he brings. That's not a foolproof strategy...it would miss guys like Duncan Robinson, for instance. But for the most part, guys who're gonna succeed in the NBA have started filling out their trophy cases with NCAA awards by their Junior year, if they stay in school that long.

Maybe given another year or two Murphy would do that, and then he'd be where Cam was going into the draft. But now we're talking "could be a bench guy on a playoff team by 2025 if he keeps developing," and that sounds a lot more like a 2nd round pick than a 1st round pick.

[Marcus]

Lotto tonight. who's excited?!!!!

EDIT: FALSE ALARM FOLKS. NOTHING TO SEE HERE