The more i see of Cody Zeller the less i like him

No-Man · Post #21 » by **No-Man** » Sun Mar 3, 2013 11:57 am

If he keeps working on his jumper his best case is a poor version of LaMarcus Aldridge.

jman2585 · Post #22 » by **jman2585** » Sun Mar 3, 2013 12:05 pm

So like a poor man's Aldridge? How enticing for a top 5 pick...

Johnlac1 · Post #23 » by **Johnlac1** » Sun Mar 3, 2013 3:17 pm

jman2585 wrote:Monroe? Who is bigger and longer than him as far as I can tell? Doesn't seem a very good comparison with his short arms and modest athleticism.

Zeller is a better athlete than Monroe but is not as strong and does not have as good inside moves. But Zeller can hit the outside shot and get out on the break better than Monroe. They're both very smart players as well who know their limitations.

SEBAS-07 · Post #24 » by **SEBAS-07** » Sun Mar 3, 2013 4:42 pm

jman2585 wrote:Who is the prototype for him being successful?

David Lee?

Post #25 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Mar 3, 2013 4:46 pm

I don't like the Monroe comparison either, but people should remember that Monroe was considered to have a pretty dissapointing career and was a presumptive number one pick type coming out of high school. Bigs with talent tend to do pretty well eventually if not immediately.

ManualRam · Post #26 » by **ManualRam** » Sun Mar 3, 2013 5:27 pm

i don't see the aldridge or monroe comparisons. zeller has better feet than both of them. for a 7'er he has good quickness and speed, which will help him in the face up and PnR game. his quickness is really underrated.

i still see him being a horford type. not a go to option, but a big who is solid in all phases, smart, changes ends well, can be used as a roll or pop option and will be an opportunistic, heady scorer who, knows how to move w/out the ball and can knock down the open jumper. not sure how he might turn out defensively, but he does have good feet so he might be able to guard in space like horford while also being a solid position defender.

Johnlac1 · Post #27 » by **Johnlac1** » Sun Mar 3, 2013 6:54 pm

ManualRam wrote:i don't see the aldridge or monroe comparisons. zeller has better feet than both of them. for a 7'er he has good quickness and speed, which will help him in the face up and PnR game. his quickness is really underrated.

i still see him being a horford type. not a go to option, but a big who is solid in all phases, smart, changes ends well, can be used as a roll or pop option and will be an opportunistic, heady scorer who, knows how to move w/out the ball and can knock down the open jumper. not sure how he might turn out defensively, but he does have good feet so he might be able to guard in space like horford while also being a solid position defender.

You see him the way I see him.

EricAnderson · Post #28 » by **EricAnderson** » Mon Mar 4, 2013 1:21 am

SEBAS-07 wrote:
jman2585 wrote:Who is the prototype for him being successful?

David Lee?

Lee was more athletic then Zeller comng out of college

.I guess you could point to Lee though who was much more rawer coming out of college then Zeller and that was after 4 years at Florida and he somehow has become a pretty sold offensive player so why not Zeller..

I just worry about his lack of strength and how he not only gets pushed around but seems to get afraid and backs down when a player is bullying him insetead of turning up his competitivness..

BruceO · Post #29 » by **BruceO** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:22 pm

[RCG] wrote:
nickforthreee wrote:he wont fall past the timberwolves

Why? I think Love, Williams & Cunningham can handle the PF position.

i think he meant cause he's white lol

Post #30 » by **theBigLip** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:01 pm

Agree to almost everything posted. He doesn't just need to bulk up, but needs to toughen up for the next level.

Cammo101 · Post #31 » by **Cammo101** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:12 pm

I'm so torn on Zeller. He has great feet, is highly skilled, and very mentally tough. But, he is also a very average athlete who has his shot blocked a lot and is not a great defender.

I certainly think he can be a good player in the NBA, but even in a draft this weak I'd be worried taking him in the top 5.

jman2585 · Post #32 » by **jman2585** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:15 pm

Horford is built like a tank- wide and long. Nothing like Zeller.

ManualRam · Post #33 » by **ManualRam** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:35 pm

jman2585 wrote:Horford is built like a tank- wide and long. Nothing like Zeller.

horford came into the league 245 with an average wingspan for someone who's 6'10. a sub 9' standing reach for a guy plays a lot of C isn't what i would consider long.
zeller has a strong base (look at his calves if you get a chance), is 240 but needs to fill up more up top. he's got great feet and straight line speed, so i don't understand why people call him a below average or even an average athlete.

Cammo101 · Post #34 » by **Cammo101** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:10 am

ManualRam wrote:
jman2585 wrote:Horford is built like a tank- wide and long. Nothing like Zeller.

horford came into the league 245 with an average wingspan for someone who's 6'10. a sub 9' standing reach for a guy plays a lot of C isn't what i would consider long.
zeller has a strong base (look at his calves if you get a chance), is 240 but needs to fill up more up top. he's got great feet and straight line speed, so i don't understand why people call him a below average or even an average athlete.

A lot of it is a complete lack of lift. He is not much of a jumper and plays almost exclusively below the rim. This causes him to get his shot blocked a lot.

ManualRam · Post #35 » by **ManualRam** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:46 am

Cammo101 wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
jman2585 wrote:Horford is built like a tank- wide and long. Nothing like Zeller.

horford came into the league 245 with an average wingspan for someone who's 6'10. a sub 9' standing reach for a guy plays a lot of C isn't what i would consider long.
zeller has a strong base (look at his calves if you get a chance), is 240 but needs to fill up more up top. he's got great feet and straight line speed, so i don't understand why people call him a below average or even an average athlete.

A lot of it is a complete lack of lift. He is not much of a jumper and plays almost exclusively below the rim. This causes him to get his shot blocked a lot.

i think the reason why he gets blocked is because he jumps into his defender with a low release shot. that leaner in the post is not gonna work.

jman2585 · Post #36 » by **jman2585** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:56 am

245, but with a wide frame, and lots of room for adding muscle. He also more reach compared to Zeller, who while he doesn't have T-Rex arms like Kevin Willis did, is still bad on reach. And yes, while I didn't want to use this word since it's the first thing everyone questions in white players, Horford is more "athletic" than Zeller.

Here's Horford out of college:

The guy is huge. Wide, big body, low centre of gravity, etc. Here is Horford for the Hawks btw, he hasn't exactly changed much:

and here:
http://cdn.hoopshype.com/i/c3/c6/5a/al_horford_10.jpg

Now here's Zeller:

The guy has spent years in college getting ripped. I don't think we should assume Zeller can bulk up anymore than he already obvously has.

Here's what I mean by Kevin Willis arms:

Deceptively short in some shots, but very Zeller like:

I want to believe Zeller will be good, I hope he is, but his brother is not that much worse of a player than him and he looks like a career journeyman, while Zeller isn't exactly lighting it up in college atm, or showing skills which will translate. He can't think of a single player like Zeller as the model for him moving forward.

Post #37 » by **jman3134** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:01 am

How is Tyler Zeller a journeyman and why are you basing this off of his season 1 production? Wouldn't the vast majority of rookies in this class be journeymen by that standard?

jman2585 · Post #38 » by **jman2585** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:12 am

I said he looks like a career journeyman. Of course he hasn't become one yet, cos he's a rookie. I should add I like most of the Cavs young guys... but Zeller has shown little so far.

ManualRam · Post #39 » by **ManualRam** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:36 am

jman2585 wrote:245, but with a wide frame, and lots of room for adding muscle. He also more reach compared to Zeller, who while he doesn't have T-Rex arms like Kevin Willis did, is still bad on reach. And yes, while I didn't want to use this word since it's the first thing everyone questions in white players, Horford is more "athletic" than Zeller.

Here's Horford out of college:

I want to believe Zeller will be good, I hope he is, but his brother is not that much worse of a player than him and he looks like a career journeyman, while Zeller isn't exactly lighting it up in college atm, or showing skills which will translate. He can't think of a single player like Zeller as the model for him moving forward.

horford left florida after his junior yr at 245.
it took one off-season for zeller to put on 20 lbs, putting him at 240 which is the same progress that tyler made over the span of 3-4 yrs. cody has the better frame than his brother. cody's not filled out up top either so i doubt he's done.
horford might be more athletic than zeller but it's not by much. they have similar athleticism with good feet and straight line speed, both with a great ability to change ends quickly. neither guy is that explosive from a standing position, but where horford has the edge athletically is strength. zeller still has time to improve his. judging by the work he did this offseason, he has the work ethic to continue adding strength.

like horford, you take zeller out of the post, put him at the elbows, involve him in screen/roll, pick n pop, high ball screens, pinch post action, give him more face up opportunities to take advantage of his foot speed and i think he'd look less limited. being the focal point offensively, ESPECIALLY in the post is his role in college but it won't be his role in the NBA.

Eoghan · Post #40 » by **Eoghan** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:59 am

jman2585 wrote:The guy has spent years in college getting ripped. I don't think we should assume Zeller can bulk up anymore than he already obvously has.

Looks like to me he's been consistently missing "leg day" at the gym. That's where he needs to bulk up, he gets pushed around the post like a rag doll.