James Wiseman

[doordoor123]

I find the Whiteside comparison is pretty laughable. Whiteside wasn’t anywhere near advanced at the same age. Same with the Gobert comparison. Maybe he comes in as current Whiteside and can only develop up from there, but long term I can’t see Whiteside. I don’t see busy potential, I see a two-way Center, which is valuable because there aren’t a lot of them. And the ones that are in the league are all-stars. Sure, he’s probably more of a rim protector than a switcher, but if he can do that at a high level and is diverse offensively he can be that type of player. In this draft is have him pretty high because it’s a weak class, but I see him doing pretty well.

[OGLife]

I see a lot of athletic potential but I can't seem to find highlights of him shooting a jumpshot.

[Marcus]

I see a lot of athletic potential but I can't seem to find highlights of him shooting a jumpshot.

Its a work in progress. The potential for a mid range game is there.

[OGLife]

I see a lot of athletic potential but I can't seem to find highlights of him shooting a jumpshot.

Its a work in progress. The potential for a mid range game is there.

Do you see him becoming a prime Marc Gasol?

[Illmatic12]

I find the Whiteside comparison is pretty laughable. Whiteside wasn’t anywhere near advanced at the same age. Same with the Gobert comparison. Maybe he comes in as current Whiteside and can only develop up from there, but long term I can’t see Whiteside. I don’t see busy potential, I see a two-way Center, which is valuable because there aren’t a lot of them. And the ones that are in the league are all-stars. Sure, he’s probably more of a rim protector than a switcher, but if he can do that at a high level and is diverse offensively he can be that type of player. In this draft is have him pretty high because it’s a weak class, but I see him doing pretty well.

The idea that every big man has to be “switchable” is going too far now. People think you must find the next Draymond Green and that style is the only way to win.

Plenty of great defensive teams employ drop schemes.. if Wiseman can be a dominant drop PnR defender + rim protector, who dominates the glass , finishes a high volume in the restricted area, and can close out games in the 4th quarter (since he can hit his FTs) all of those things are incredibly valuable to winning.

Everyone else being considered at the top of this class is a guard initiator, we know they can get shots off but those types of players aren’t guaranteed to contribute to winning *unless* they are efficient. I am more confident in Wiseman’s skill set translating than in Edwards, Ball or Anthony becoming EFFICIENT creators at high volume.

[Marcus]

I see a lot of athletic potential but I can't seem to find highlights of him shooting a jumpshot.

Its a work in progress. The potential for a mid range game is there.

Do you see him becoming a prime Marc Gasol?

Completely different players. James probably wont ever be the passer Gasol is, projects as a better rebounder, and while likely a better shot blocker not sure he"ll be the same level anchor Gasol was. Keep seeing AD comps for Wiseman but i dont think that fits either. Jermaine o'neal might be the best comp but even that isnt exact. Wiseman doesnt have that footwork yet and projects as a better defender.

[clyde21]

I find the Whiteside comparison is pretty laughable. Whiteside wasn’t anywhere near advanced at the same age. Same with the Gobert comparison. Maybe he comes in as current Whiteside and can only develop up from there, but long term I can’t see Whiteside. I don’t see busy potential, I see a two-way Center, which is valuable because there aren’t a lot of them. And the ones that are in the league are all-stars. Sure, he’s probably more of a rim protector than a switcher, but if he can do that at a high level and is diverse offensively he can be that type of player. In this draft is have him pretty high because it’s a weak class, but I see him doing pretty well.

Plenty of great defensive teams employ drop schemes.. if Wiseman can be a dominant drop PnR defender + rim protector, who dominates the glass , finishes a high volume in the restricted area, and can close out games in the 4th quarter (since he can hit his FTs) all of those things are incredibly valuable to winning.

so IF he becomes a dominant rim protector, dominant PnR defender, dominant rebounder, who also finishes at an elite clip inside and can hit his FTs he will be valuable?

well, yea, of course. you're not really saying anything there tbh. that's like a J away from being Joel Embiid.

[clyde21]

and i think most people agree that Wiseman will be good in the NBA, it's just always been a question just how valuable his archetype (as it stands today) is in today's NBA, and how high of a pick do you need to spend on that archetype?

just philosophically speaking, i'd rather take a combo big, a wing or a combo guard in the top10 and take my rim runner/rebounder in the 2nd round than vice versa.

of course, Wiseman is still super young so he could eventually develop a more dynamic floor game or become a 3 level player but at this point i'd just rather take more versatile playmakers or perimeter players in the top10 unless you're talking about a KAT level C prospect

[OGLife]

Its a work in progress. The potential for a mid range game is there.

Do you see him becoming a prime Marc Gasol?

Completely different players. James probably wont ever be the passer Gasol is, projects as a better rebounder, and while likely a better shot blocker not sure he"ll be the same level anchor Gasol was. Keep seeing AD comps for Wiseman but i dont think that fits either. Jermaine o'neal might be the best comp but even that isnt exact. Wiseman doesnt have that footwork yet and projects as a better defender.

I don't like drafting guys who don't have a jumpshot in the top 5. Especially a big man. You're describing Noel as a prospect.

There's a long list of guys who haven't panned out due to lacking a jumpshot. In today's NBA he will need one.

[Illmatic12]

I find the Whiteside comparison is pretty laughable. Whiteside wasn’t anywhere near advanced at the same age. Same with the Gobert comparison. Maybe he comes in as current Whiteside and can only develop up from there, but long term I can’t see Whiteside. I don’t see busy potential, I see a two-way Center, which is valuable because there aren’t a lot of them. And the ones that are in the league are all-stars. Sure, he’s probably more of a rim protector than a switcher, but if he can do that at a high level and is diverse offensively he can be that type of player. In this draft is have him pretty high because it’s a weak class, but I see him doing pretty well.

Plenty of great defensive teams employ drop schemes.. if Wiseman can be a dominant drop PnR defender + rim protector, who dominates the glass , finishes a high volume in the restricted area, and can close out games in the 4th quarter (since he can hit his FTs) all of those things are incredibly valuable to winning.

so IF he becomes a dominant rim protector, dominant PnR defender, dominant rebounder, who also finishes at an elite clip inside and can hit his FTs he will be valuable?

well, yea, of course. you're not really saying anything there tbh. that's like a J away from being Joel Embiid.

No not really. Embiid has iso stuff on the block and faceup series that’s likely never going to be in Wiseman’s wheelhouse.

But Wiseman can have success in a similar vein as say , Rudy Gobert. Drafting a Gobert-type with a ft line jumper may not sound sexy at #1 but in this class it’s fine value imo. Teams drafting that high should take BPA and not worry about archetypes - besides “inefficient combo guard with broken jumper” isn’t really a winning archetype either and you could argue many of the other prospects fall under that.

[clyde21]

Plenty of great defensive teams employ drop schemes.. if Wiseman can be a dominant drop PnR defender + rim protector, who dominates the glass , finishes a high volume in the restricted area, and can close out games in the 4th quarter (since he can hit his FTs) all of those things are incredibly valuable to winning.

so IF he becomes a dominant rim protector, dominant PnR defender, dominant rebounder, who also finishes at an elite clip inside and can hit his FTs he will be valuable?

well, yea, of course. you're not really saying anything there tbh. that's like a J away from being Joel Embiid.

No not really. Embiid has iso stuff on the block and faceup series that’s likely never going to be in Wiseman’s wheelhouse.

But Wiseman can have success in a similar vein as say , Rudy Gobert. Drafting a Gobert-type with a ft line jumper may not sound sexy at #1 but in this class it’s fine value imo. Teams drafting that high should take BPA and not worry about archetypes - besides “inefficient combo guard with broken jumper” isn’t really a winning archetype either and you could argue many of the other prospects fall under that.

of course Gobert #1 is a good pick, but is Gobert the likely outcome here? you're talking about one of the best defenders of this generation, you see that in Wiseman?

[Illmatic12]

so IF he becomes a dominant rim protector, dominant PnR defender, dominant rebounder, who also finishes at an elite clip inside and can hit his FTs he will be valuable?

well, yea, of course. you're not really saying anything there tbh. that's like a J away from being Joel Embiid.

No not really. Embiid has iso stuff on the block and faceup series that’s likely never going to be in Wiseman’s wheelhouse.

But Wiseman can have success in a similar vein as say , Rudy Gobert. Drafting a Gobert-type with a ft line jumper may not sound sexy at #1 but in this class it’s fine value imo. Teams drafting that high should take BPA and not worry about archetypes - besides “inefficient combo guard with broken jumper” isn’t really a winning archetype either and you could argue many of the other prospects fall under that.

of course Gobert #1 is a good pick, but is Gobert the likely outcome here? you're talking about one of the best defenders of this generation, you see that in Wiseman?

I do think he has that potential yes. For the most part the scouts/NBA execs who are high on Wiseman are buying into his defensive potential -- he doesn't have to be Karl-Anthony Towns offensively to live up to those expectations.

Wiseman is long and too mobile for his size, he will take away stuff at the rim , he will take away plays on the weakside that are designed to create open threes. In a small ball NBA it's going to take multiple bodies to keep him off the glass, it will take multiple bodies to hit him when he dives to the rim. Any big with that much size+power , who occupies multiple bodies on offense/defense is going to the game easier for their teammates. Sometimes people just overthink things.

[clyde21]

No not really. Embiid has iso stuff on the block and faceup series that’s likely never going to be in Wiseman’s wheelhouse.

But Wiseman can have success in a similar vein as say , Rudy Gobert. Drafting a Gobert-type with a ft line jumper may not sound sexy at #1 but in this class it’s fine value imo. Teams drafting that high should take BPA and not worry about archetypes - besides “inefficient combo guard with broken jumper” isn’t really a winning archetype either and you could argue many of the other prospects fall under that.

of course Gobert #1 is a good pick, but is Gobert the likely outcome here? you're talking about one of the best defenders of this generation, you see that in Wiseman?

I do think he has that potential yes. For the most part the scouts/NBA execs who are high on Wiseman are buying into his defensive potential -- he doesn't have to be Karl-Anthony Towns offensively to live up to those expectations.

Wiseman is long and too mobile for his size, he will take away stuff at the rim , he will take away plays on the weakside that are designed to create open threes. In a small ball NBA it's going to take multiple bodies to keep him off the glass, it will take multiple bodies to hit him when he dives to the rim. Any big with that much size+power , who occupies multiple bodies on offense/defense is going to the game easier for their teammates. Sometimes people just overthink things.

then that's were we disagree, i really don't see DPOY level defense from him at all, I think he can be passable defensively, possibly good, but I think it's quite a stretch to say he can be a DPOY type based on the evidence we have today.

[Illmatic12]

of course Gobert #1 is a good pick, but is Gobert the likely outcome here? you're talking about one of the best defenders of this generation, you see that in Wiseman?

I do think he has that potential yes. For the most part the scouts/NBA execs who are high on Wiseman are buying into his defensive potential -- he doesn't have to be Karl-Anthony Towns offensively to live up to those expectations.

Wiseman is long and too mobile for his size, he will take away stuff at the rim , he will take away plays on the weakside that are designed to create open threes. In a small ball NBA it's going to take multiple bodies to keep him off the glass, it will take multiple bodies to hit him when he dives to the rim. Any big with that much size+power , who occupies multiple bodies on offense/defense is going to the game easier for their teammates. Sometimes people just overthink things.

then that's were we disagree, i really don't see DPOY level defense from him at all, I think he can be passable defensively, possibly good, but I think it's quite a stretch to say he can be a DPOY type based on the evidence we have today.

Big man defense is hard to project in young prospects , and we won’t have any useful college film to go off so yeah there will be disagreements there. We just won’t know until he suits up in the NBA.

A lot of NBA people feel confident that he’s the type of player who can be developed into a defensive force, even if he’s not there now. Ultimately teams will do their due diligence and whoever drafts him will obviously believe their player development can get him to where he needs to be.

[clyde21]

I do think he has that potential yes. For the most part the scouts/NBA execs who are high on Wiseman are buying into his defensive potential -- he doesn't have to be Karl-Anthony Towns offensively to live up to those expectations.

Wiseman is long and too mobile for his size, he will take away stuff at the rim , he will take away plays on the weakside that are designed to create open threes. In a small ball NBA it's going to take multiple bodies to keep him off the glass, it will take multiple bodies to hit him when he dives to the rim. Any big with that much size+power , who occupies multiple bodies on offense/defense is going to the game easier for their teammates. Sometimes people just overthink things.

then that's were we disagree, i really don't see DPOY level defense from him at all, I think he can be passable defensively, possibly good, but I think it's quite a stretch to say he can be a DPOY type based on the evidence we have today.

Big man defense is hard to project in young prospects , and we won’t have any useful college film to go off so yeah there will be disagreements there. We just won’t know until he suits up in the NBA.

A lot of NBA people feel confident that he’s the type of player who can be developed into a defensive force, even if he’s not there now. Ultimately teams will do their due diligence and whoever drafts him will obviously believe their player development can get him to where he needs to be.

that's also kinda the point tho, if you're telling me that for him to be top5 worthy he needs to become Gobert level defensively, I'm not making that bet...I need to see more...i need to see more of a floor game, more dynamism, multi-level scoring, etc...and at this point I just don't.

[Illmatic12]

then that's were we disagree, i really don't see DPOY level defense from him at all, I think he can be passable defensively, possibly good, but I think it's quite a stretch to say he can be a DPOY type based on the evidence we have today.

Big man defense is hard to project in young prospects , and we won’t have any useful college film to go off so yeah there will be disagreements there. We just won’t know until he suits up in the NBA.

A lot of NBA people feel confident that he’s the type of player who can be developed into a defensive force, even if he’s not there now. Ultimately teams will do their due diligence and whoever drafts him will obviously believe their player development can get him to where he needs to be.

that's also kinda the point tho, if you're telling me that for him to be top5 worthy he needs to become Gobert level defensively, I'm not making that bet...I need to see more...i need to see more of a floor game, more dynamism, multi-level scoring, etc...and at this point I just don't.

We also won’t get to see anything from him this year , and what areas he may have improved since HS. Ie he could polish his PnP jumper , which would automatically make him a better offensive prospect than Gobert.

He’ll probably only do one per-draft workout, in a controlled environment. So gathering intel on him will be key.

I don’t have access to all of the intel the teams will have , but my hunch is that you could take Wiseman top 5 and not be worried that you passed over a bunch of other more dynamic prospects - bc in this class I’m not really seeing that.

[The-Power]

of course Gobert #1 is a good pick, but is Gobert the likely outcome here?

More likely than it was or is for Bamba.

[clyde21]

of course Gobert #1 is a good pick, but is Gobert the likely outcome here?

More likely than it was or is for Bamba.

not really, Bamba had stupid length, like Gobert level length and same level of shot blocking instincts, Wiseman isn't really that kinda defensive dynamo potentially

[The-Power]

of course Gobert #1 is a good pick, but is Gobert the likely outcome here?

More likely than it was or is for Bamba.

not really, Bamba had stupid length, like Gobert level length and same level of shot blocking instincts, Wiseman isn't really that kinda defensive dynamo potentially

I'm just referring to you saying that Gobert was Bamba's floor. Just a bit surprised you were so confident in Bamba's defense but at the same time question Wiseman's defense that much. Bamba was longer but that's about it and Wiseman has great length himself – plus strength, better hands and better motor. Bamba had way more question marks than Wiseman on defense and that has thus far been noticeable in the NBA.

[clyde21]

More likely than it was or is for Bamba.

not really, Bamba had stupid length, like Gobert level length and same level of shot blocking instincts, Wiseman isn't really that kinda defensive dynamo potentially

I'm just referring to you saying that Gobert was Bamba's floor. Just a bit surprised you were so confident in Bamba's defense but at the same time question Wiseman's defense that much. Bamba was longer but that's about it and Wiseman has great length himself – plus strength, better hands and better motor. Bamba had way more question marks than Wiseman on defense and that has thus far been noticeable in the NBA.

i mean, the only thing that proves is that i was way too overzealous about Bamba in hindsight, that doesn't mean we should be overzealous on Wiseman...frankly I don't see Gobert potential defensively, I really don't know where that's coming from, so we'll leave it at that.

sidenote: Bamba is already a + player, and is only getting better. we'll see where he's at 4 years down the road...he was always a long term guy.