I Heart Okongwu

[King Ken]

What's the comparison for Okongwu that many here have?

[No-Man]

Bam is the most popular one

[nolang1]

C'mon, Rak averages 1.8 assists a game, and those are easy passes because of Okongwu's ability to snatch them and finish. Big O is obviously not a finished product on offense, but the tools are there for him to become an outstanding player, and this is a draft that's very very light in the top 5. If anything, both get in each other's way near the hoop and clog things up for the other.

Yes, these are easy passes that lots of college bigs (or even guards) are unable to make, so lots of good-rebounding, good-finishing bigs have been in situations where they were just as efficient (if not even more so) but on lesser volume. Obviously in college where the talent disparity between the best and worst players is even bigger, teams will be playing these 'suboptimal' two-big looks relatively often if two of their best players are bigs; Rakocevic benefits Okongwu more in terms of allowing him to be matched up against the 2nd-best interior defender more often and deterring opposing teams from double-teaming him than from the direct big-to-big passes (not to mention that obviously passes that result in the other team being forced to foul the recipient don't count as assists). I believe this effect is more pronounced in recent years with the college game 'modernizing' where an NBA-caliber big forced to play 4 will have such a huge physical advantage over a small-ball college counterpart as to offset the lack of spacing.

A similar situation in recent years I'd point to is Wendell Carter Jr., who had a lot more space to maneuver on offense than the typical blue-chip big thanks to the attention Marvin Bagley commanded and was thought to be a much more skilled/efficient prospect on offense than he's shown so far in the NBA. It's hard to see a player with Okongwu's offensive skillset being that much of a positive on that end (even Bam with all his playmaking from the center position has a negative ORPM right now), so the path for him to be top-5 worthy seems to rely on him being an all-NBA type of defender as a 6'9 center.

[Ruzious]

C'mon, Rak averages 1.8 assists a game, and those are easy passes because of Okongwu's ability to snatch them and finish. Big O is obviously not a finished product on offense, but the tools are there for him to become an outstanding player, and this is a draft that's very very light in the top 5. If anything, both get in each other's way near the hoop and clog things up for the other.

Yes, these are easy passes that lots of college bigs (or even guards) are unable to make, so lots of good-rebounding, good-finishing bigs have been in situations where they were just as efficient (if not even more so) but on lesser volume. Obviously in college where the talent disparity between the best and worst players is even bigger, teams will be playing these 'suboptimal' two-big looks relatively often if two of their best players are bigs; Rakocevic benefits Okongwu more in terms of allowing him to be matched up against the 2nd-best interior defender more often and deterring opposing teams from double-teaming him than from the direct big-to-big passes (not to mention that obviously passes that result in the other team being forced to foul the recipient don't count as assists). I believe this effect is more pronounced in recent years with the college game 'modernizing' where an NBA-caliber big forced to play 4 will have such a huge physical advantage over a small-ball college counterpart as to offset the lack of spacing.

A similar situation in recent years I'd point to is Wendell Carter Jr., who had a lot more space to maneuver on offense than the typical blue-chip big thanks to the attention Marvin Bagley commanded and was thought to be a much more skilled/efficient prospect on offense than he's shown so far in the NBA. It's hard to see a player with Okongwu's offensive skillset being that much of a positive on that end (even Bam with all his playmaking from the center position has a negative ORPM right now), so the path for him to be top-5 worthy seems to rely on him being an all-NBA type of defender as a 6'9 center.

Well, he'll be about the same size as Bam, so is being that size supposed to be a knock on his ability to defend? I do NOT see Bam being a negative on offense. There are plenty of other stats you could use to show he isn't. And it's not like Rakocevic is a great player that teams have to key on. He's a good college player - certainly not on Bagley's level.

[nolang1]

C'mon, Rak averages 1.8 assists a game, and those are easy passes because of Okongwu's ability to snatch them and finish. Big O is obviously not a finished product on offense, but the tools are there for him to become an outstanding player, and this is a draft that's very very light in the top 5. If anything, both get in each other's way near the hoop and clog things up for the other.

Yes, these are easy passes that lots of college bigs (or even guards) are unable to make, so lots of good-rebounding, good-finishing bigs have been in situations where they were just as efficient (if not even more so) but on lesser volume. Obviously in college where the talent disparity between the best and worst players is even bigger, teams will be playing these 'suboptimal' two-big looks relatively often if two of their best players are bigs; Rakocevic benefits Okongwu more in terms of allowing him to be matched up against the 2nd-best interior defender more often and deterring opposing teams from double-teaming him than from the direct big-to-big passes (not to mention that obviously passes that result in the other team being forced to foul the recipient don't count as assists). I believe this effect is more pronounced in recent years with the college game 'modernizing' where an NBA-caliber big forced to play 4 will have such a huge physical advantage over a small-ball college counterpart as to offset the lack of spacing.

A similar situation in recent years I'd point to is Wendell Carter Jr., who had a lot more space to maneuver on offense than the typical blue-chip big thanks to the attention Marvin Bagley commanded and was thought to be a much more skilled/efficient prospect on offense than he's shown so far in the NBA. It's hard to see a player with Okongwu's offensive skillset being that much of a positive on that end (even Bam with all his playmaking from the center position has a negative ORPM right now), so the path for him to be top-5 worthy seems to rely on him being an all-NBA type of defender as a 6'9 center.

Well, he'll be about the same size as Bam, so is being that size supposed to be a knock on his ability to defend? I do NOT see Bam being a negative on offense. There are plenty of other stats you could use to show he isn't. And it's not like Rakocevic is a great player that teams have to key on. He's a good college player - certainly not on Bagley's level.

Bam is a better athlete by a fair amount (he was ranked much higher in a much better recruiting class) and yes, when it comes to being a top 5-10 defender rather than just being very good, being only 6'9 hurts. Bam spends a lot of time playing alongside another center or in zone. Also you are repeatedly missing the point that not many NBA big prospects get to go against the opposing team's 2nd-best post defender in college. Plenty of prospects can average an efficient 18 points per 40 just off of offensive rebounds and finishing, and Okongwu is just able to get a higher volume of these easy looks due to his team situation.

[Ruzious]

nolang, doesn't it follow that if other teams really use their top interior defender on Rak that Rak is playing in the interior - and taking up space there that makes it more difficult for Okongw to score? And if Rak is not playing on the interior, opponents have gotten the clue and are not using their top interior defender on Rak? That'll be my last post on the subject - so have at it.

[clyde21]

i get the Bam comps but Bam has a better frame, is stronger, and has developed some serious ball skills the last couple of yrs for a big

[nolang1]

nolang, doesn't it follow that if other teams really use their top interior defender on Rak that Rak is playing in the interior - and taking up space there that makes it more difficult for Okongw to score? And if Rak is not playing on the interior, opponents have gotten the clue and are not using their top interior defender on Rak? That'll be my last post on the subject - so have at it.

Two obvious points:

1. There isn't that much 'spacing' in the college game regardless with a shorter 3-point line and no defensive three seconds.

2. Being guarded by some 6'7, 220 pound player more than offsets whatever lack of spacing there may be.

Rakocevic is indeed not playing on the interior as often to accomodate Okongwu (which hurts his individual stats), but he is still being guarded by the opposing center. Like why would you even bring that up without actually having watched the games? There are not many players at the college level who can score well enough close to the basket to command double teams and also make a big-to-big entry pass. And when Rakocevic is out of the game, Isaiah Mobley is a good passing big as well.

Again what this all comes down to is that he gets a higher volume of high-percentage looks than past prospects because he's not the sole focus of the opposing game plan and his teammates can get him the ball, but in terms of the actual skillset he possesses on offense it's nothing out of the ordinary for an NBA big. Like what would he have on that end over a player such as Daniel Gafford other than better free throw shooting? It's just bizarre to me that in a time where being a big who doesn't shoot threes is considered a scarlet letter, Okongwu suffers no such discount. If the blueprint is supposed to be Adebayo, Bam derives most of his value from being a freak athlete at his size who doesn't give up much when switched onto guards (he's not even a particularly great rim protector, which is why I said that being only 6'9 does indeed hurt).

[510TWSS]

One of my fav guys in this year's weak draft. I get the Bam comps but earlier Bam since I think he's really improved as a playmaker.

OO seems like a slightly less defensive oriented Myles Turner? Not sure where he lands, but definitely lottery material

[ThunderBolt]

i get the Bam comps but Bam has a better frame, is stronger, and has developed some serious ball skills the last couple of yrs for a big

I don't think their frames are too dissimilar when you compare him to Bam's days at UK. Bam might have been a little stronger but not a huge amount.

Spoiler:

[No-Man]

Bam is a better athlete, even if Okongwu is also great, I think the difference is coordination, Bam moves like a wing

[BlazersBroncos]

Bam was a much better prospect. Ya, they are both powerful and explosive, but what separates Bam is his fluidity and court vision.

I think Okongwu is a bench big in this era.

[clyde21]

i get the Bam comps but Bam has a better frame, is stronger, and has developed some serious ball skills the last couple of yrs for a big

I don't think their frames are too dissimilar when you compare him to Bam's days at UK. Bam might have been a little stronger but not a huge amount.

Spoiler:

nah, these pics are quite misleading, Bam's has really wide shoulders, Onyeka is a bit more thin and inline

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[ThunderBolt]

i get the Bam comps but Bam has a better frame, is stronger, and has developed some serious ball skills the last couple of yrs for a big

I don't think their frames are too dissimilar when you compare him to Bam's days at UK. Bam might have been a little stronger but not a huge amount.

Spoiler:

nah, these pics are quite misleading, Bam's has really wide shoulders, Onyeka is a bit more thin and inline

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is the second one from High School?

[clyde21]

I don't think their frames are too dissimilar when you compare him to Bam's days at UK. Bam might have been a little stronger but not a huge amount.

Spoiler:

nah, these pics are quite misleading, Bam's has really wide shoulders, Onyeka is a bit more thin and inline

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is the second one from High School?

yes, and that Bam pic is also straight after HS, frames don't really change

Spoiler:

not saying this as a dig against Onyeka but he just doesn't have Bam's strength or frame at this point.

[Marcus]

Don't care who the kid comps to at this point. I fuggin love him as a prospect.

[BlazersBroncos]

He sorta reminds me of Harrell's energy with Bismack's athleticism and body.

I cant roll with these Bam comp's because the progress Bam has made is pretty special. Like, I think at the end of Okongwu's career you don't get to Bam's assist average this year using Okongwu's two best passing years combined. And the range Bam has developed is something Okongwu just doesn't have.

[Marcus]

Okongwu is actually a good passer, not Bam level of course but with Bam you're talking about top what 3-5 passing big in the league. Don't make it a knock against the kid. I'm not completely off the concept of him developing a jumper either.

[Ruzious]

For folks who doubt Okongwu's talent level, here is a great objective watch of pros and cons

Watch on YouTube

[Klomp]

I previously looked past Onyeka Okongwu because center isn't really a need for Minnesota and I don't really see him at PF in our system, but that's someone who could be a dude in this league right away and as such I wouldn't totally hate the pick.

Something I'm really going to look into is just trying to find guys who look like they belong at the NBA level. I know some guys need skill or body development and it's not an exact science, but it's often times projectable who will belong and who won't. I'm even willing to possibly look past positions if I think somebody could really make an impact and belong on the court.