Hasheem Thabeet vs. DeAndre Jordan

[BigSlam]

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quick question, do you believe Deandre Jordan is better then Jones and Davis?

As of today? No. As of in a few years time. Who knows? Jordan is all potential where as guys like Davis and Jones are tapped out.

Keep in mind though that they all played around the same amount of mins each.

[Cammo101]

Jordan should not have started, but he should have been the first player off the bench at A&M. You can't tell me that he can play for the U19 USA team but can't crack a 9 seed's rotation?

[hard49]

All I know is that A&M wasa lot better team when he was starting and the more they jacked around with his minutes, the worse that team became.

[Tha King]

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As of today? No. As of in a few years time. Who knows? Jordan is all potential where as guys like Davis and Jones are tapped out.

Keep in mind though that they all played around the same amount of mins each.

what do they do defensively, or even offensively that Jordan is unable to do?
In fewer minutes he rebounds more, blocks more shots, and scores nearly as much. The minutes may be relatively close, but their minutes were consistent. Jordan's PT fluctuated ( and most of his big minutes came early on). Jordan may have made his share of mistakes, but Davis and Jones weren't any smarter out there. Jones earned his minutes due to what he did the previous three years, but to tell you the truth a guy like Davis should not be getting over 15minutes on a contending big 12 team, he's just not any good.

When you think about it, I can understand the way Jordan has been acting (if any of the behavioral rumors are true). This guy committed because of Gillipsie. After Gillipsie left to Kentucky, obviously the coaching staff at A&M made promises to him inorder for him to stay committed. During the first half of the season he was starting and getting his share of minutes, as the season progressed he went to the bench and saw his minutes get gradually smaller. I assume this is when he and the coaching staff started to get irritated towards one another. From Jordan's POV he sees two players who he knows he's better then ahead of him on the depth chart (all stats point this way as well, Davis for sure, the guy is hot garbage). Due to the PT issues he reacts negatively (again rumors). The kid is 18 years old, was a HS all star, has been a top 10 draft pick all year, the coaching staff most likely promised him tons of PT. I can understand his immature reactions (rumors) towards the coaching staff, when a guy like Davis is seen as a more important player. I dont condone his actions, but lets just remember he's only a teenager. If his immature behavior is true, he will need to grow up and find better ways to solve problems.


This isn't Unc or Ucla where the team is loaded with talent. He committed to A&M, a team that most likely never landed a recruit of his caliber. If he wanted to come off the bench he would have attended Kansas or even Texas, at least there he would have won. At least he didn't make the situation public, whereas other have before.

All in all, we really dont know what happened. I'll wait and see with him. His work ethic and maturity problems may be true, we'll see.

[Tha King]

Jordan should not have started, but he should have been the first player off the bench at A&M. You can't tell me that he can play for the U19 USA team but can't crack a 9 seed's rotation?

why? Because of Bryan Davis? lol

[princeofpalace]

Not playing Deandre Jordan is not the reason that Texas A&M struggled in Big12 play when they were really hot during nonconference games. The level of competition greatly increased during BIG 12 play (which has become one of the best conferences in basketball) and this was a factor in the Aggies losing more games. In addition, the lack of PG really hurt A&M and this was the main reason for their struggles. Neither Donald Sloan nor Dominique Kirk are able to distribute the ball well and as a result the Aggies offense suffered and consequently their play suffered.

A&Ms frontline was their biggest strength all season, Bryan Davis and Joe Jones both played much better than Jordan. They are smarter, they have more hustle, they arent offensively challanged and most importantly they have more HEART (something I doubt Jordan has at all). The Aggies play completely different with Davis on the court than they do with Jordan. Davis play lights a fire under the Aggies and they play with much more aggression because they see all of the fire that Davis brings into the game. When Jordan is on the court he looks extremely disinterested and all he can do is dunk. Why dont you ask an Aggie who they prefer between Davis and Jordan? The answer obvious.

Did any of you really watch Jordan during the UCLA game? He was really bad, he was routinely abused by Love (a lot of guys are, but DJ is just really bad at defence). He was slow up and down the court and made extremly bad decisions with regards to passing.

I really dont understand why anyone would say that DJ is more likely to develop an offensive game than Thabeet. This kid has never made a jumpshot in his life, and is ineffictive if hes more than 5 feet away from the hoop. Atleast with Thabeet your getting good D, a lot of blocks and rebounds, with Jordan you wont be getting any of that

[Chi Dynasty12]

Jordan has the skill set to be a very good player on both ends.

I've never seen any skills from him. Just a 7 foot tall body.

[Cammo101]

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I've never seen any skills from him. Just a 7 foot tall body.

Then you started watching him too late. He is a skilled athletic big man. But he is raw.

[hard49]

That is the point exactly. Jordan got worse as the year went on and to me that is a function of situation.

[moocow007]

Not playing Deandre Jordan is not the reason that Texas A&M struggled in Big12 play when they were really hot during nonconference games. The level of competition greatly increased during BIG 12 play (which has become one of the best conferences in basketball) and this was a factor in the Aggies losing more games. In addition, the lack of PG really hurt A&M and this was the main reason for their struggles. Neither Donald Sloan nor Dominique Kirk are able to distribute the ball well and as a result the Aggies offense suffered and consequently their play suffered.

A&Ms frontline was their biggest strength all season, Bryan Davis and Joe Jones both played much better than Jordan. They are smarter, they have more hustle, they arent offensively challanged and most importantly they have more HEART (something I doubt Jordan has at all). The Aggies play completely different with Davis on the court than they do with Jordan. Davis play lights a fire under the Aggies and they play with much more aggression because they see all of the fire that Davis brings into the game. When Jordan is on the court he looks extremely disinterested and all he can do is dunk. Why dont you ask an Aggie who they prefer between Davis and Jordan? The answer obvious.

Yeah I have to agree.

I've watched a few A&M games and what you said was true every game. Davis was a firebrand with the intensity with which he played to there point even though you're not looking for him you notice him right away and want to know "who is that guy?".

I think the deal here is that people are seeing a guy with a lot of potential (and Jordan has more than any of the other bigs) as a justification in their own minds as to who he should be playing right now and why he is better (neither of which is true).

Did any of you really watch Jordan during the UCLA game? He was really bad, he was routinely abused by Love (a lot of guys are, but DJ is just really bad at defence). He was slow up and down the court and made extremly bad decisions with regards to passing.

I really dont understand why anyone would say that DJ is more likely to develop an offensive game than Thabeet. This kid has never made a jumpshot in his life, and is ineffictive if hes more than 5 feet away from the hoop. Atleast with Thabeet your getting good D, a lot of blocks and rebounds, with Jordan you wont be getting any of that

I agree there two. Thabeet's actually been working on a few post moves, including an effective looking turnaround drop hook. While no Kareem or Moses Malone, I think the general take is that because he's known primarily for his shotblocking and that he's compared most to Dikembe Mutombo that he too must be a one dimensional, offensively challenged, shotblocker (even though Deke averaged 16ppg during his prime if I recall).

[moocow007]

That is the point exactly. Jordan got worse as the year went on and to me that is a function of situation.

Yeah but situation created by others or by himself, or both?

Could be the coaching staff playing games (a bit far fetched but anythings possible) but could also be that he got tired, after showing some things early on he got high on his britches and stopped trying, he became disinterested because the coaching staff played guys that were more effective and ready to contribute right now than he was, etc. No one knows what the real deal is is the problem. And if it's not the coaching staff then those reasons I pointed out are not good things to be associated with the personality of a guy that you are looking to entrust a lottery pick in.

[T-Spot]

D over O, means Thabeet.

I mean, even his name sounds like the sort of name every defensive player wants.

Thabeet!

Who would you want anchoring your defensive line, based on a name.

Thabeet!

Or

DeAndre Jordan

[ponder276]

A lot of people in this thread are calling the A&M coaches idiots for playing scrubs over Jordan, but the fact is basketball coaches do whatever they can to win. If in their mind a scrub center was a better starter than Jordan, isn't that a pretty serious red-flag, especially since people have been projecting him to be a top 5-10 pick?

[A.J.]

even though both men are raw, imma have to go with jordan

[Cammo101]

A lot of people in this thread are calling the A&M coaches idiots for playing scrubs over Jordan, but the fact is basketball coaches do whatever they can to win. If in their mind a scrub center was a better starter than Jordan, isn't that a pretty serious red-flag, especially since people have been projecting him to be a top 5-10 pick?

A&M was a heck of a lot better earlier in the year. Coincidently, this is when Jordan was playing. Hmmm.

[M-Town's Finest]

Every time I've seen Jordan play this year, he has continually gotten blocked/abused by smaller players (Love just killed him). He is a turnover waiting to happen and he makes no use of his big body. Even when he had a clear dunk, he couldn't elevate over Love. I don't see why he's rated highly at all. Raw is just another way of saying bad in this case. The only skillset he has shown me is having no basketball IQ, no jumper, and no post moves. That doesn't seem to me like an indication that he has a high ceiling or that he is ready to make a big jump. Seems to me like he just sucks.

[moocow007]

A lot of people in this thread are calling the A&M coaches idiots for playing scrubs over Jordan, but the fact is basketball coaches do whatever they can to win. If in their mind a scrub center was a better starter than Jordan, isn't that a pretty serious red-flag, especially since people have been projecting him to be a top 5-10 pick?

It would be for me if I were an NBA scout or NBA GM. And I think what is also being missed in this rationale is that while we can argue that Jordan is raw offensively and may not know the nuances of the game, giving strong and consistent effort is not that hard. And by their very admission that Jordan looked very good early on both off the boards and blocking shots it's hard to believe that the coaching staff would be jeopardizing their teams success by intentionally sitting their best (per minute) rebounder and shotblocker.

The "they are trying to play mind games and not lose him after just one season" is a bit off the wall to say the least. Most every college (especially a big popular one like A&M) understand full well that one-and-done are common especially for a guy that very well could have declared straight out of HS if the NBA had allowed it. And most school programs would know and understand that full well as well. Winning (which you kinda would put the guys out there that would best help you do that) is what most every headcoach and every schools athletic program is based off of and funded not their ability to trick talented underclassmen to stay another year or two or three by intentionally sitting him.

[tsherkin]

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Then you started watching him too late. He is a skilled athletic big man. But he is raw.

You cannot be raw AND skilled, they are contradictory terms. Raw implies underdevelopment of skills, negating the ability to be skilled if you're raw.

DeAndre Jordan is young, has a good frame, decent build, great athleticism...

Can't shoot worth a damn from anywhere that's not a dunk, has fairly poor footwork, he's got really bad defensive fundamentals (and that was on display clearly against UCLA)...

So he's godawful and useless at the line, has no scoring range except point blank, he's a poor defender despite his athleticism and his BPG and BLK/40...

He has good hands, runs well, jumps well and all but he's weak at establishing and maintaining position. So that's time taken to develop him while he gets his skills from "nowhere to be seen" to "acceptable and useful in an NBA context," which will be some kind of miracle. He's also a turnover factory.

I mean, if you took him in the late lottery, it'd be something. He's a good rebounder, he's just mostly useless on offense, a terrible defender and a liability at the line, right? He's young, so he can improve his physical traits (core strength, balance, etc) and thereby improve his ability to get and hold good post position, and he's got time to work on his horrendous free throw shooting and raw offensive game but that's a lot of time for a fairly low-impact pick, so you don't want to waste a top-10 pick on that guy, really. Maybe 9th or 10th, but certainly not top-8.

He's just not that good right now, he's all athletic potential and no actual foundation.

[hard49]

I wish people could pick up soon footage of Bynum's first summer league. It would be eye opening in how far he has come.

[tsherkin]

I wish people could pick up soon footage of Bynum's first summer league. It would be eye opening in how far he has come.

Ah, but that's inadmissible because Bynum was 18, a full year younger and lacking in a year of college seasoning.

By the time he was 19, in his second season, he was something like 26% better at the free throw line and shooting 56% against NBA defenses. He was also a lot larger than is Jordan, who's just your standard 7', 240, 245 player in terms of raw mass and weight distribution. He's got a nice frame but Bynum was and remains a very big man.

More to the point, how many other teams in the league have Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?

That's a rather critical factor; Patrick Ewing has been OK and there's the Pete Newell and Hakeem Olajuwon big man camps to attend but Bynum's been working closely with Kareem for several years now and Kareem's a guy who wanted to eventually get into coaching himself. Remember, he was an assistant for the Clippers, was the head coach of the USBL's Oklahoma Storm (leading them to a title), just missed out on a coaching opportunity at Columbia University, worked as a scout for the Knicks and he's been an assistant coach for Alchesay High on a reservation in Arizona for like a decade now. This is a guy who knows about player development and has achieved at the highest of levels. He's the greatest college baller of all-time, one of the three best basketball players of all time, one of the two best centers of all time... I mean, his resume is endless and he's the special assistant to Phil Jackson who's basically in charge of making Bynum good.

You're not going to find that ANYWHERE else in the league.

Not in Moses Malone on Philly, not in Patrick Ewing, not in Clifford Ray, not anywhere.