Which draft prospect prototype are you most adverse to?

[fatlever]

great idea for a topic it would probably make for a funny article.

[NUNBETTA]

-= original quote snipped =-




Where would you classify Tim Thomas and Eddie Griffin.... a cross between a few groups obviously but those are outside oriented big men who did not use there atleticism and there size.

I'm sure if I thought about it I could name a few current NBA players who are in some ways a hybrid of two or more of the 8 prototypes. It's a good question to ask though. I want to say that Thomas was a 3/4 tweener when he came into the league, but I think he's evolved into more of a pure 3; he operates like a swing player.

Griffin was a 4/3 player. He was always stuck between being the post-scoring, defensive rebound grabbing force he could be, and the shot-happy, three-point shooter he was for much of the time. I don't think he ever really developed a clear understanding of how to be effective, given the fact that his skill set was a little bit 3, and a little bit 4. I think his tweener status was mostly viewed as a positive when he was drafted ( same for Tim Thomas), but his lack of role definition hurt his career.

There are a lot of players who struggle to use their skill set in the most effective way. I think some of those do-it-all tweeners will start to fall out of fashion. There is too much importance played on versitility, rather than effectiveness.

[Fran Vasquez]

the euro guy who has the same hairstyle as dirk, is tall, handsome but kind of nerdy and can shoot threes completely alone in workouts, no one knows about him but has an exotic sounding name and his last season in europe he was playing in some weird team in some unknown league, but has some promising numbers in a bunch of euroleague games because he goes steve franchise on the other team colective asses.
We can name him.... skitislicic

fear him

the euro guy goes to the draft, gets picked up high and notices no one there speaks spanish. He then is really scared and runs back to spain, where people speak spanish. He thinks this fact is a beautiful coincidence
We can name him... vas franquez

fear him

[Badboy]

#1 I don't include Mayo in that. 6-1 and 6-2 shooting guards have not won a championship in the NBA as starters in the past 30 years without Magic Johnson at the point. The smallest if my memory serves correct have been 6-4 which is Wade and Dumars. They both got 1 each. Also a 6-2 or under SG will never lead a team to a championship and that's why Iverson as good as he is wont be winning a championship in his career.

I'm a Chicago fan and hated the Ben Gordon pick to this day and am so against having him start due to this fear/hate for the small SG.

[DanTown8587]

I agree with the above post in everything except Joe D got two rings I think. The problem with undersized SG who cannot play the Point is they are negligibly better for your offense, but they kill your defense because your PG has to guard SG or your undersized SG has to, neither are good options.

I also would refuse guys who I don't believe can hack it mentally because thats what separates guys in the league. I mean, shouldn't Eddy Curry get 20-10 every night? Rudy Gay would be the only guy in the past five years that I would have passed on because of mental issues and been burned by it.

I also don't care how many HS a guy plays for. That has almost nothing to do with him because in HS he was being taken advantage of most likely. And if you are saying he has the talent, body size and skill set to play in the league, thats all that matters.

Finally, I would always ask the "ryan leaf" question. The Colts, when deciding between Leaf and Manning had split decisions in terms of talent and skill sets, but they asked the two what they would do after their first check came to them. Manning said move to Indy, read the playbook, buy a house with that money and start getting ready. Leaf on the other hand said go to Vegas with his buddies, buy a new truck, etc.

[CaptainFanchini]

1) shot-first PG ala Marbury or Tony Parker

2) slow and/or unskilled big ala Eddy Curry, Shaq etc

[moocow007]

I don't know that Kevin Love and Nick Collison (and even David Lee) are exactly the best examples of #2. I think better examples are Tyler Hansborough and Danny Ferry and those types of guys. Basically too small and unathletic for the NBA but great for college. Those are the guys that scare me the most because they are usually college POY candidates who probably wouldn't be more than early 2nd rounders value wise but likely are perceived to be worth late-lottery to mid-1st round picks.

[Malinhion]

I am most afraid of these, in this order:

1. The undersized shooting guard is normally just bad news. This is a position that's so stacked with talent in the NBA that undersized guys really just don't preform. And I'm not an idiot, so I don't draft point guards who have no point guard skills.

3. This kind of goes with the one above. A shooting pedigree doesn't mean much coming from college, even if you do have the size to complement (Reddick, Morrison). Undersized is never good in the NBA. A good college 3P% is near the bottom of my list for talent scouting. A player with a fundamental stroke and the athletecism to get an open shot probably will not struggle shooting the deep ball at the NBA level. But you can sign me up any day for a gunner from UCLA.

8. Injury always goes into the risk-reward assessment. But tying up your payroll with an expensive noncontributor can be expensive. In terms of wins, of course, since insurance overs the medical bills and lost salary. This depends on the extent of the risk and the talent I can get in return.

4. Sometimes big guys with no BBIQ turn out to be servicable. This depends how good my coaching staff is, but a lot of Saer Senes turn out to be bustalicious. Gimme a smaller kid who I know can play first. Talentless big guys tend to burn higher picks. But if you went to Georgetown I'll give you a serious look.

6. If I can get an IF-guy from a legitimate university, I'll take him. Otherwise his supposed potential was probably a ruse played out by weaker competition.

5. Combo forward. Yeah, we've seen millions.

2. The fundamental big man without the prototypical size. I actually don't mind these at all. I think whoever gets Love will be getting a great contributor. These guys often pan out to be starters and they fill roles on championship squads. You can't win a title without these guys, and if you're a playoff team this is probably the best you can get in a later draft pick anyhow. Sign me up for a David Lee or a Udonis Haslem. Hell, even an Emeka Okafor.

7. The player with every skill at a position of need is my draft pick, no questions asked. I don't care if he smoked pot in college or had an attitude or some disciplinary issues. You draft on talent. You can't expect a kid to make all the right decisions, but if you put the right environment around him in your organization, he will be fine. Guys with motor issues are simply often bored with competition at the college level.

[shrink]

7.) The guy who has every skill you need from a player at his position, but does not approach the game the right way. This is the, "I wonder if he has the fire/passion to excel in the NBA" guy. The full physical package, but lacks the heart, brain, or worth ethic to convince people that he'll ever be as great as his phyical package suggests.

For me its this guy, because he can infect other young players on your team.

Has any kid that didn't have heart and willingness to practice and play hard in college ever turn it around when he became a pro?

[Jose7]

#7 without a doubt.

Good thread.

[NUNBETTA]

Thanks, Jose.

[Malinhion]

All the people late in this thread picking #7 are the types of GMs who passed on Sean Williams because he smoked weed in college (like every NBA player does anyhow), and will be kicking themselves when he pans out. That is, if Lawrence Frank will ever give him any run.

[Jose7]

All the people late in this thread picking #7 are the types of GMs who passed on Sean Williams because he smoked weed in college (like every NBA player does anyhow), and will be kicking themselves when he pans out. That is, if Lawrence Frank will ever give him any run.

Most Recently, Kandiman, Curry, Darko, Chandler, nuff said.

[Malinhion]

[quote="Jose7

[fugop]

Can I just be a prick and note how distracting the typo in this thread's title is? It's "averse," not "adverse."

On topic, I can't stand bigs who can't play defense.

[NUNBETTA]

Can I just be a prick and note how distracting the typo in this thread's title is? It's "averse," not "adverse."

On topic, I can't stand bigs who can't play defense.

I should have known.
Thanks for pointing it out.
I am an english major after all.

[NO-KG-AI]

1) shot-first PG ala Marbury or Tony Parker

2) slow and/or unskilled big ala Eddy Curry, Shaq etc

Shaq is neither slow or unskilled, even at this age and size now.

[Malinhion]

For me its this guy, because he can infect other young players on your team.

A kid who comes in with a bad attitude isn't gonna corrupt your organzation. If you have good players already there, they will turn him around. If you bring him into the JailBlazers, he'll turn into a maniac. A rookie can't change the culture of a team. You need to do your due diligence getting the right guys in your organization to help tutor the rookies.

Has any kid that didn't have heart and willingness to practice and play hard in college ever turn it around when he became a pro?

Lots of them (see my last post for reasoning).

[Harry Palmer]

Of those types, I'd go 1 and 2 in that order.

In general, your shoot-first point guards (who they usually end up being) aren't all that good for your team even when they pan out.

Another type that sends red flags for me are the overrated shooters who, when you break their games down, really offer you nothing if their shot isn't falling, and imo that type is often among the most overrated come draft time. (see Bargs, Ammo, Redick, Langdon, Respert, Skita, Vlad, etc.)

And lastly, though 5 kind of covers it, there's the 'next Barkley' type, who pretty much always bust out.

[The_Believer]

Big men who don't do anything but shoot jumpers and can't rebound or play in the post, or play defense.