RealGM

Hal14 wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:

EvanZ wrote:Tried to tell you that before? I have Whitmore at 12 in my final board. Just never really could get into him.

Real question is where does YouTube sensation Adam Spinella have him?

Vecenie has Whitmore BPA at pick 3. Scoot 2 of course. Miller 4.

Vecenie is probably wrong.

Does Whitmore look like a top 3 pick here?

Watch on YouTube

Or here?

Read on Twitter

Whitmore only measured with a 6'8.5" wingspan, so he'd have to be a SG/SF. But you really need more playmaking/processing/passing from a guy like that. And he's carrying around a bunch of extra weight (235 lbs) for a guy who's got to play out on the perimeter as a SG/SF.

he was 18. my guess is he probably wasn't a finished product.

He's certainly not a finished product, and I'm just speaking for myself here, but what I saw on court just doesn't jump out to me like he should be so coveted.

Now to be fair, I thought very much the same way about Jaylen Brown being overrated at Cal and he turned out to be worth the hype. One of the few times I've been really surprised by the outcome of a player. Maybe that will be Cam, it's just not my draft philosophy to bet so much on physical tools without seeing more evidence of "good basketball player", which I really just didn't see with my eyes from Cam. I'd also argue Cam does not have the physical tools Brown does, so it's not worth as much of a bet even if you do like to take these kind of swings. Said this before but to me Kuminga has better tools, and I certainly wouldn't have had him in the top 5 based on tools alone.

I'm more of a hockey fan growing up than basketball. Whitmore plays like a power forward in hockey which means he seeks out contact and drives through it. Lot of players don't do that and everyone needs to view that as part of his skillset.

ItsDanger wrote:I'm more of a hockey fan growing up than basketball. Whitmore plays like a power forward in hockey which means he seeks out contact and drives through it. Lot of players don't do that and everyone needs to view that as part of his skillset.

I wanted to see more of this actually. But still, without the passing it could look a lot like Bad Porn.

Whitmore shouldn't drop out of the top 7 or so

EvanZ wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:I'm more of a hockey fan growing up than basketball. Whitmore plays like a power forward in hockey which means he seeks out contact and drives through it. Lot of players don't do that and everyone needs to view that as part of his skillset.

I wanted to see more of this actually. But still, without the passing it could look a lot like Bad Porn.

I really like this comparison on offense. Whitmore has a bit more power and explosiveness, but I think the hypothetical skillset would be pretty similar.

?s=20

Doesn't surprise me. Also I'm hearing injury concerns.

Whitmore did miss his freshman season of HS with a broken leg, not sure how to incorporate older injuries into an evaluation.

The Moose wrote:The biggest issue I have with Whitmore is just how much of his scoring this season revolved around bully ball driving, where he just puts his head down and drove without a real plan, outside of getting a shot up somehow. Said it before but he plays like a bull in a china shop way too often, and really doesn't seem to read or react to what the defense is actually presenting him in front of him, and it's a major part of his insanely low ast numbers.

I'm not convinced this driving style will translate well for him at the NBA level.
Watching old Arizona clips of Derrick Williams gives me pause about explosive athletes who rely so heavily on just bullying guys on the drive.

So much of Cam's outcome is going to come down to how effective his jumper is, and if he can actually be impactful defensively. He has shown some actual perimeter skill as a shot creator, so that gives some hope, but I just can't buy top 5

Yep, this is what I see as well. You know who that reminds me of? Saddiq Bey who the Pistons couldn't wait to get rid of.
Same issues except in a more athletic package, that running back mentality of bullying into traffic then taking a tough shot or making a poor decision with the ball, low pass rate so the ball sticks when he gets it, inconsistent long range shooting. He probably has a better handle than Bey and is a much better athlete vertically so he'll be better in transition but the style he plays gives me serious Bey PTSD flashbacks. I'm just not seeing the hype outside of being a well put together guy that is athletic.

NYPiston wrote:Yep, this is what I see as well. You know who that reminds me of? Saddiq Bey who the Pistons couldn't wait to get rid of.
Same issues except in a more athletic package, that running back mentality of bullying into traffic then taking a tough shot or making a poor decision with the ball, low pass rate so the ball sticks when he gets it, inconsistent long range shooting. He probably has a better handle than Bey and is a much better athlete vertically so he'll be better in transition but the style he plays gives me serious Bey PTSD flashbacks. I'm just not seeing the hype outside of being a well put together guy that is athletic.

Yep... the Bey and Maggette comps are spot on.

Sounds like almost all his workouts have gone very poorly, may just be smoke though

Nobody can stay in front of this guy. His combination of speed and power... he's like the wing version of Zion. I struggle to name five guys better than him in this draft.

EvanZ wrote:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Doesn't surprise me. Also I'm hearing injury concerns.

is it related to the broken leg from high school?

9. Utah Jazz: Cam Whitmore (Villanova, SF, Freshman)

There have been some concerns over Whitmore's medicals, which could cause a few teams to pass in the mid-lottery, per sources. This could be an opportunity for the Jazz or others to buy low on an 18-year-old who showed no signs of any injury affecting his explosiveness during the season. The Jazz are also expected to be explore different trade possibilities with three first-round picks.

Wasserman reporting there are medical concerns too

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10077669-2023-nba-mock-draft-updated-full-2-round-predictions

Not sure if it’s that or knees.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

CP3nthusiast wrote:Nobody can stay in front of this guy. His combination of speed and power... he's like the wing version of Zion. I struggle to name five guys better than him in this draft.

This…wasn’t what I watched.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

EvanZ wrote:He's certainly not a finished product, and I'm just speaking for myself here, but what I saw on court just doesn't jump out to me like he should be so coveted.

Now to be fair, I thought very much the same way about Jaylen Brown being overrated at Cal and he turned out to be worth the hype. One of the few times I've been really surprised by the outcome of a player. Maybe that will be Cam, it's just not my draft philosophy to bet so much on physical tools without seeing more evidence of "good basketball player", which I really just didn't see with my eyes from Cam. I'd also argue Cam does not have the physical tools Brown does, so it's not worth as much of a bet even if you do like to take these kind of swings. Said this before but to me Kuminga has better tools, and I certainly wouldn't have had him in the top 5 based on tools alone.

It’s weird how people fall in love with tools. It’s a game of skill.

I want to love Cam. He’s been my choice at 5 since we slipped to that pick. I always acknowledged the high risk, but I’ll admit I’m wavering now. I’m looking for a trade down — Utah for 9 and 16 sounds pretty good to me.

EvanZ wrote:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Doesn't surprise me. Also I'm hearing injury concerns.

Taking Hood-Schifino anywhere near the top 10 would be a major, major mistake, imo.

Now, about Whitmore. It is absolutely true that he plays like a bull in a china shop. It is absolutely true that he puts his head down and just drives to the rim at full speed without much of a back-up plan.

But you know who else did that this past season at the NBA level? Bennedict Mathurin. That infamous Whitmore play that was posted in the last page (which is awful, I agree) is something that Mathurin has done this year. And despite plays like that, Mathurin had a very, very good rookie year and he looks like a very promising NBA player.

Now, granted, Whitmore's playmaking stats are worse than Mathurin's. Whitmore's assist to turnover ration is historically bad while Mathurin's was simply bad (as a freshman, at least, he improved on this aspect as a senior). Mathurin was also a better shooter with a much better free throw rate than Whitmore. But Whitmore does have better stocks, he has the strength to guard up the lineup and has the tools to become a good defender at the NBA level (he's clearly not there right now).

Whitmore is an upside bet, I agree, and he does need to improve his feel on both ends and his playmaking (a shooting improvement wouldn't be a bad thing either). But he also is one of the youngest players in the Draft who had a relatively productive freshman season for a good college program.

His playmaking is a major flaw, I agree, but he does belong in the top 10, imo.

And that bull in the china shop play-style? It can work with the right spacing at the NBA level.

What needs to be recognized is that Whitmore does have a very, very good ability to get to the rim. And there IS value in that skill.

Some of these comparisons make me worry even more for Whitmore.

Saddiq Bey? I can see it, but Bey came into the league having grown up as a guard who grew into a forward. In college, he did a bit of pnr initiation and it wasnt terrible, by any means. He wasnt as explosive as Whitmore, for sure.

So, if Bey - who has at least the bag and muscle memory of passing out of drives to the rim - can't manage it to Detroit's satisfaction, what chance will Whitmore have? Whitmore has no floor vision whatsoever. His entire offensive toolbag consists of a backdoor cut to hang out under the basket, a bullyball drive and an average 3pt C&S shot. In other words, Whitmore in year one looks to be poor-mans Saddiq Bey in many respects.

Mathurin? Whitmore doesnt have the shooting chops that Mathurin had coming out, either in C&S or off the bounce. Mathurin was another who showed some passing ability late in his sophomore year at Arizona. Whitmore shows none of that.

With Cam, you're either taking a wild swing or you're banking so heavily on his drive game being unstoppable that his other glaing deficiencies are worth it. I know he's still a baby, but he's missing glaring pieces in his game and his oncourt demeanour doesnt suggest he's too worried about it.