All Things Luka Doncic

[Mirotic12]

What does it even mean to be athletic or non-athletic? Let's say that we have a certain definition of athleticism. I'd say that in that case you have levels of athleticism... maybe you could say a person is athletic on a scale from 1 to 100. If we do have an athleticism scale 1 - 100 are you saying that it's impossible to move up the scale with proper training? If you say that, I disagree. You can always improve your athleticism.

What many people seem to misunderstand is the underlying genetics. When they say that somebody is not athletic and can never improve, what they usually mean is that genetic material is such that doesn't allow big progress to be made. I have seen no evidence of Luka Doncic being genetically restricted in that regard. One has to know that in general genetic material of people coming from that region of the world is very advantageous for sports. The average height of American men is:
- 5' 9.8'' for white males
- 5' 9.5'' for black males
- 5' 7.1'' for Hispanic males

The average height of so called Dinaric male, covering countries of ex Yugoslavia, is 6' 1'' with additional positive characteristic being slower loss of mobility with more height (in general of course being taller means you are less mobile).


Bottom line would be that being "athletic" is not a birth given right, people get more or less athletic with training. There can be certain genetic disadvantages which makes it harder to reach same level of athleticism as somebody more fortunate, but to say that Doncic can't get more athletic with training is quite a bold claim in my opinion.

I almost forgot to add that I agree with your first paragraph. I have no clue what they are doing, could be completely legal, but whatever it is, it's top notch, no doubt.

You can get more "athletic" through training, mainly in terms of athletic test results. Like, you can increase your vertical jump, your bench press, lane agility, and things like that.

In terms of natural and innate athleticism...you can only get better by endless hours of training your body in multiple different athletic disciplines, something that is generally impossible for anyone other than a real natural born athlete.

Can Doncic improve on things measured at a combine? Yes. Can he get naturally more athletic? Extremely unlikely, especially since 18 is already around a physical peak for many aspects of overall athleticism.

[burek3]

Real Madrid is considered the biggest sports club in the world. They have the absolute best of the best of the best training programs. In terms of designer PEDs, whatever any NBA team has, I would be very surprised if Real Madrid does not have something similar.

We are talking about freaking Real Madrid here.... sure, you could probably indeed be right if you took some average random European basketball team, that NBA probably has much better training programs, especially for non-EuroLeague teams. But for the biggest EuroLeague teams, especially the ones that are also huge multi-sports clubs, based around football clubs - it simply isn't true in the least.

Those big European clubs spend enormous amounts of money on their training programs. They have the absolute most advanced training programs that exist. No way does the NBA have anything better than huge European clubs like that.

In regards to recent multiple injuries on the team and the perpetual visible tiredness of the team, I would say that their conditioning teams/coaches aren't doing quite the right thing.

[XTraderXL]

@Mirotic12
European strength and conditioning regimes are not even close to what they have in the US. Why do you think so many Euro players go to the US to work on their bodies in the summer but no US player comes to Europe for the same thing? If you really think that Euro teams have the same type of training as NBA, then you really dont know what you are talking about. I have talked to players who played in Europe and play/used to play in the NBA and they all say there is no comparison and everything is on a much, much higher level in the NBA.

[pacersGM]

The NBA doesn't make non-athletic players more athletic. They make the athletic players stronger, while trying to maintain their same level of quickness. The only player in mind who actually became quicker after going into the NBA is Gordon Hayward. He was faster and more athletic than Doncic, but he went from above average to good/great.

the above is the smartest thing i read in the last 3 pages.

thats why i like to put hayward as his nba best case mirror
look at the clip below. that for me is like you would be watching doncic in real madrid. great looking shot, great handles for a 6ft7 6ft8 guy, playmaking skills, just more athletic (look at 2:40, thats a block doncic isnt able to pull of. not mobile enough to recover like hayward did here).

Watch on YouTube

i would say hayward got stronger alot in the nba, but he was pretty athletic then, with similar blocks and moves to the basket he showed at butler at 18-19.

the other guy who comes to mind on the FLOOR end is denzel valentine. creative, great rebounder,, great looking shot, look at the cross court passes, vision. but he just isnt quick enough to make a difference in the nba. still, a solid player in the nba down the road i guess.

Watch on YouTube

thats where i have doncic - almost all star at the top or solid 6th man/starter later on in the worst case.
i dont see no unicorn abilities wich would propel him over hayward during his career.

[Don7]

Ther is nothing to impressive on that Hayward video (regarding athletic ability).

Doncic is already better player then Denzel Valentine , that's not his floor.

[pacersGM]

Ther is nothing to impressive on that Hayward video (regarding athletic ability).

Doncic is already better player then Denzel Valentine , that's not his floor.

i never said haywards athletic ability impresses me in any way.
but what does that say about doncics athletic ability? because it is clearly below haywards level (either his butler or the nba current state)?

in wich sense is doncic already the better player then valentine?

of course can valentine be doncics floor. why not?
if i compare doncic to valentine each 17 years old, valentine averaged: 12.7 points, 7.9 rebounds, 8.5 assists, 5.4 steals and 1.1 blocks as a 17 year old. and almost a triple double (14 / 11 / 9 )as a 18 year old.

are you judging based on the real madrid / best club in the world (outside the nba) - competing against "grown" men thesis?
because its nto that simple, and your claim is therefore very subjective.

[Don7]

Silly me , i didint compare Valentine playing in highschool with Doncic playing/dominating in euroleague.

Why would playing against best non nba competition,playing against players in thers prime be more relevante than playing against bunch of kids that won't even become basketball players.Now you're thinking.

[pacersGM]

Silly me , i didint compare Valentine playing in highschool with Doncic playing/dominating in euroleague.

Why would playing against best non nba competition,playing against players in thers prime be more relevante than playing against bunch of kids that won't even become basketball players.Now you're thinking.

using your universal bulletproof formula, luka doncic is probably the most dominant player in the history of the basketball game?
lebron james cant be compared with him since lebron james averaged as a 17 year old 28 ppg / 8,9 rpg / 6 apg, but doing that against kids, he clearly cant be compared to the things doncic is doing against grown men.

and that leaves us clearly that doncic in the nba willl be superior to lebron james. i mean since he played against "grown" men, and lebron against kids? its that how it goes? do i understand correct?

[Don7]

Lebron with 18 years was slaying already in nba , so no.

Denzel Valentine could barely play with 19 years in first college season i mean he did but not too good.
But i like how you you just went from Denzel Valentine to one of the greatest player of all time.

Doncic at age 18 puts better numbers in euroleague than Denzel Valentine did in ncaa with 21.

[UcanUwill]

That Denzel Valentine mixtape is pretty impressive, very Doncic like, good call. If I had to give me my cliche ceiling floor comparisons. I would go with :

Ceiling : James Harden

reasonable turnout : more dominant Joe Ingles

Floor : higher IQ Denzel valentine

[Don7]

That Denzel Valentine mixtape is him being 22 years old and feasting on freshmans and sophomores.

Ridiculous comparison.

[pacersGM]

Lebron with 18 years was slaying already in nba , so no.

Denzel Valentine could barely play with 19 years in first college season i mean he did but not too good.
But i like how you you just went from Denzel Valentine to one of the greatest player of all time.

Doncic at age 18 puts better numbers in euroleague than Denzel Valentine did in ncaa with 21.

then i must guess jimmy butlers freshman season also didnt impress you too much? is doncic a better player then jimmy butler?
i would like to know, it would help me understand how you see things.

the euroleague and nba are so different that inside their own different systems they produce players or player types wich can be very succesful in one style of play and cant get of the bench in the other.

thats why the euroleague style of play has produced "semi-gods" wich could not or would not get of the bench in the nba. (bodiroga, diamantidis, jasikevicius, papaloukas ...). im suggesting doncic can be the best the euroleague has ever seen, but he wont be the best that europe has sent to the nba, because he can do alot of things very good, i see none of that getting him above average or, team carying. (because those were a killer 1990 before europeans were cool - lethal petrovic, a before his time unicorn nowitzki ...)

sorry for projecting him a solid but unspectacular nba career

[UcanUwill]

Jimmy Butler is late bloomer, Doncic is early bloomer. Very hard to compare, you guys are going back and forth, but it looks like you dont even grasp what you debating about

[pacersGM]

Jimmy Butler is late bloomer, Doncic is early bloomer. Very hard to compare, you guys are going back and forth, but it looks like you dont even grasp what you debating about

dont say the word early bloomer, because the most enthusiastic fans will say the doncic trajectory curve is just starting to get up. i mean they dont see a reason why it would not

[Don7]

is doncic a better player then jimmy butler?

There is not to many players in the world better than 28 year old Jimmy so no.
Can he be? i can't say like you categorically that he won't.

im suggesting doncic can be the best the euroleague has ever seen, but he wont be the best that europe has sent to the nba

He wont be better then 30 000 points mvp/fmpv Dirk? well ok.I understand that he´s not 7 footer like many great european prospect but you also cant compare him to any of the players from that list.Much more advanced and better suited for nba.

sorry for projecting him a solid but unspectacular nba career

Well you can project what ever you like , i just called you out on that comparison.

[pacersGM]

is doncic a better player then jimmy butler?

There is not to many players in the world better than 28 year old Jimmy so no.
Can he be? i can't say like you categorically that he won't.

im suggesting doncic can be the best the euroleague has ever seen, but he wont be the best that europe has sent to the nba

He wont be better then 30 000 points mvp/fmpv Dirk? well ok.I understand that he´s not 7 footer like many great european prospect but you also cant compare him to any of the players from that list.Much more advanced and better suited for nba.

sorry for projecting him a solid but unspectacular nba career

Well you can project what ever you like , i just called you out on that comparison.

i see now, that you are comparing doncic / a 18 year old prospect, with players near their prime.
see, i never did that.

i put valentine and hayward as comparision when they vere prospects. sorry, i put a clip of a 20 year old valentine, since i didnt look for his high school tapes. but im shure his game was similar 3 years before.

and if you cant see similarities between valentines and doncic style of play, then hey, we wont come to the bottom of this.

[batigol18]

thats why i like to put hayward as his nba best case mirror
look at the clip below. that for me is like you would be watching doncic in real madrid. great looking shot, great handles for a 6ft7 6ft8 guy, playmaking skills, just more athletic (look at 2:40, thats a block doncic isnt able to pull of. not mobile enough to recover like hayward did here).

Watch on YouTube

i would say hayward got stronger alot in the nba, but he was pretty athletic then, with similar blocks and moves to the basket he showed at butler at 18-19.

Doncic literally did almost identical block in last match of Euroleague (video around 2:40)

Watch on YouTube

[pacersGM]

Doncic literally did almost identical block in last match of Euroleague (video around 2:45)

this is where this evaluating thing gets tricky. both are blocks, but one is achieved with better quickness, better vertical, better length/reach.

i see the difference, im sorry. but your right, both are blocks, and neither one is a lebron james chasedown swat, that is correct.

[J_T]

@Mirotic12
European strength and conditioning regimes are not even close to what they have in the US. Why do you think so many Euro players go to the US to work on their bodies in the summer but no US player comes to Europe for the same thing? If you really think that Euro teams have the same type of training as NBA, then you really dont know what you are talking about. I have talked to players who played in Europe and play/used to play in the NBA and they all say there is no comparison and everything is on a much, much higher level in the NBA.

True dat. If people are not discussing in good faith, there is no point. Some people just like to use internetz for measuring their penis size. As I said, you can't argue with the results. NBA produces freaks out of Euro players that look like a joke. The rest of the page I see is again troll feeding party. They always wake up 48 hours after last game. Too bad Doncic will only play 80 games this season. If he played every day this thread would have been half the length. When is the next game, can't come soon enough.

[pacersGM]

@Mirotic12
European strength and conditioning regimes are not even close to what they have in the US. Why do you think so many Euro players go to the US to work on their bodies in the summer but no US player comes to Europe for the same thing? If you really think that Euro teams have the same type of training as NBA, then you really dont know what you are talking about. I have talked to players who played in Europe and play/used to play in the NBA and they all say there is no comparison and everything is on a much, much higher level in the NBA.

True dat. If people are not discussing in good faith, there is no point. Some people just like to use internetz for measuring their penis size. As I said, you can't argue with the results. NBA produces freaks out of Euro players that look like a joke. The rest of the page I see is again troll feeding party. They always wake up 48 hours after last game. Too bad Doncic will only play 80 games this season. If he played every day this thread would have been half the length. When is the next game, can't come soon enough.

how come marc gasol and pau gasol are not ripped cartoon superman caracters dunking over people with their improved nba trained leaping ability, compared to their barcelona days?

and doncic will never do above average athletic things, dunks, leaps, and quick moves even if he dedicates his whole training toward that goal. if you dont posses that much observing, human judging skills then i cant help you neither.

the above is childish, and the hints about me being a troll. when the next person says im trolling this doncic threat (presumably by me saying he can have a nice nba career) i will report to the mods, and they can decide. im shure they will look at this thing with more objectivity then most of posters here