All Things Luka Doncic

anthony00 · Post #2181 » by **anthony00** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:34 pm

paulbball wrote:
Bluewaterheaven wrote:
paulbball wrote:
lol @ Bagley at #9 overall.

lol @ Marc Whittington putting Bagley as his 17th best prospect on his board. The guy is a crap spammer from Sixers Liberty Baller with an intense irrational hatred for Duke players and has been critiquing Okafor for years (check out his Twitter). If you cannot put your personal biases aside, you shouldn't be trying to write basketball.

I've also expressed how low quality I think JZ Mazlish's writing is in the past. The Stepien is a joke.

Bagley is proving night in and night out he is not a top 5 pick. Don't get me wrong he has the potential to be one of the best players in the league, but man is he raw. He is Tyrus Thomas raw.

Another set of double standards at play here. For Duke players, 'rawness' is a sign of low NBA ceiling. For players of last school, 'rawness' is a sign of unlimited future development. I saw this set of narratives used against Tatum in favor or Jackson and Issac.

i think your overthinking it

J_T · Post #2182 » by **J_T** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:43 pm

saphan wrote:https://www.thestepien.com/individual-rankings/

At The Stepien, new drafting website (now that draftexpess is done), they all seem to unanimously agree who no.1 is. Not only that, they all put Luka as the only player in tier 1 category.

That's some seriously weird ranking. I could understand if someone thinks Bagley is not top 5, but 17th overall is just nuts. Here is justification:

Bagley doesn’t have a natural position. He’s a 4/5 tweener without the skills to thrive on the perimeter or the length and strength to be a defensive anchor.
While he has been willing to shoot from deep, he has not scored efficiently on either jumpers or free throws, suggesting he may not be a stretch 4.
Bagley pairs a mediocre passing ability with turnover susceptibility, calling into question his basketball IQ
Bagley is overly reliant on his left hand, limiting his maneuverability in the post or in traffic
These are naturally weaknesses that are tempered some by his incredible athleticism and fluidity, which contribute to the optimism many evaluators feel towards him. Keep in mind too, that our current assessments are preliminary and will be updated frequently throughout the season. It’s possible that, with more, better information, the concerns outlined above are overstated, and Bagley justifies the hype as a top-tier pick.

I could accept all these perceived weaknesses, but it's weird that there are 16 other prospects that have less severe weaknesses.

logical_art · Post #2183 » by **logical_art** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:13 pm

batigol18 wrote:Hi did this when he was 16 years old

Watch on YouTube

So unathletic...

His head is like a foot from the rim. Not really that impressive for a 6'7" guy.

Wagonband · Post #2184 » by **Wagonband** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:09 pm

logical_art wrote:
batigol18 wrote:Hi did this when he was 16 years old

Watch on YouTube

So unathletic...

His head is like a foot from the rim. Not really that impressive for a 6'7" guy.

He is 6'7" currently at age 18. So if this video was in fact when he was 16, he should be a few inches shorter.

Dankoz · Post #2185 » by **Dankoz** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:38 am

Doncic seems to be very risky big. Maybe he turns out to be best player from draft, but i don't feel too confident about his defense abilities against NBA PG. Does he have enough speed to guard them?

burek3 · Post #2186 » by **burek3** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:50 pm

Why would he need to guard PGs? Because of his role on offense?

BoardCrusher · Post #2187 » by **BoardCrusher** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:13 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:
batigol18 wrote:Hi did this when he was 16 years old

Watch on YouTube

So unathletic...

9 ft rim.

It seems like you have problems with evaluating rim heights, makes me wonder when was the last time youve seen one.

logical_art wrote:
His head is like a foot from the rim. Not really that impressive for a 6'7" guy.

If you actualy used some logic, you would know, dunkers upper body is almost never straight, when doing between the legs dunks.

Mirotic12 · Post #2188 » by **Mirotic12** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:16 pm

Dankoz wrote:Doncic seems to be very risky big. Maybe he turns out to be best player from draft, but i don't feel too confident about his defense abilities against NBA PG. Does he have enough speed to guard them?

He was being used primarily as a small forward with Slovenia's national team in EuroBasket, and he us is sued as a pick and roll 2/3 in Real Madrid in ACB/EuroLeague. It's been explained over and over in this thread - Slovenia's point guard was Goran Dragic, and Real's point guard is Facu Campazzo.

Doncic is no more of a point guard in Europe, than LeBron James or Scottie Pippen are/were point guards in the NBA.

Why would the NBA suddenly change his position upon drafting him? He's not tasked with the job of guarding point guards in Europe, which is why Real Madrid has Campazzo, Chasson Randle, and Sergio Llull, when he gets back from injury, to do that, so there is no reason for the NBA to have Doncic suddenly change what his defensive assignments are after drafting him.

J_T · Post #2189 » by **J_T** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:43 pm

Dankoz wrote:Doncic seems to be very risky big. Maybe he turns out to be best player from draft, but i don't feel too confident about his defense abilities against NBA PG. Does he have enough speed to guard them?

He can guard SG's if needed. In offense I do think that he will continue playing as PG, which is his current position. Factually. It would have been a waste of talent not to use him as a PG. To be honest, if he didn't play PG primarily, I wouldn't have drafted him in top 3.

PhilBlackson · Post #2190 » by **PhilBlackson** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:04 pm

BoardCrusher wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:
batigol18 wrote:Hi did this when he was 16 years old

Watch on YouTube

So unathletic...

9 ft rim.

It seems like you have problems with evaluating rim heights, makes me wonder when was the last time youve seen one.

It's far more a reflection of you being clueless about what greenfont means :lol:

, but go on...

Dankoz · Post #2191 » by **Dankoz** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:48 am

OK, thanks about information everyone, that makes sense. Could be excellent guy for Chicago.

FlorentinoPerez · Post #2192 » by **FlorentinoPerez** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:30 pm

10 points in the first Q,

juanc · Post #2193 » by **juanc** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:47 pm

Luka played the first 5 minutes on the PF position. It's also interesting to see how other players are static when Pao doubleteams Luka on PnR.. He had a good 1q and an awful 2q.. 5 TO in the first half is just too much..

XTraderXL · Post #2194 » by **XTraderXL** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 am

8 TOs??? What was going on with him? Can someone please explain what happened? I couldnt watch the game, was travelling...

Mirotic12 · Post #2195 » by **Mirotic12** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:36 am

XTraderXL wrote:8 TOs??? What was going on with him? Can someone please explain what happened? I couldnt watch the game, was travelling...

Panathinaikos put the Spanoulis defense on him at times. Nothing surprising about 8 turnovers. It's a huge step up for a player, when he goes from being treated like any other player by the opposing defense (how Doncic is handled till now), to suddenly seeing a double team off that screen...

He simply wasn't ready for a team to actually decide to try to stop him defensively, and he shouldn't be expected to be ready for it either. Not since he's been treated like an average player by most teams defensively so far.

If more teams defend him like that, he will eventually adjust, but at the same time, his turnovers will definitely increase. No player can not have big turnover numbers when the defense is keyed hard on them. It's a simple reality. If you are the focal point of the defense, you are going to make a hell of a lot of turnovers.

Anyway, actually getting a defense to key on him is a good step for his player development. It certainly will help him get better more than the defense teams had been playing on him.

Spanoulis usually gets 2 defenders on him on the ball, with a help defender off the ball assigned to him. Ever since defenses started playing him that way, he had to learn how to read the defense better and how to pass better out of the doubles. It made him a better creator and a better passer. It could help Doncic with that also.

SportsGuy8 · Post #2196 » by **SportsGuy8** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:51 am

Other teams are also game-planning vs. him and double-teaming him, they just don't do it to such extremes.

We also need to note that he's NEVER going to have to face this in the NBA, not even in the playoffs. Even if he becomes a superstar. It's a combination of rules and having much better teammates around him.

So basically, this is the toughest type of game-planning team-defense he's ever going to experience.

916fan · Post #2197 » by **916fan** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:44 am

SportsGuy8 wrote:Other teams are also game-planning vs. him and double-teaming him, they just don't do it to such extremes.

We also need to note that he's NEVER going to have to face this in the NBA, not even in the playoffs. Even if he becomes a superstar. It's a combination of rules and having much better teammates around him.

So basically, this is the toughest type of game-planning team-defense he's ever going to experience.

I agree. Teams will try to trap him or "blitz" on PnR with 2 defenders stepping out, but I don't think it will be a problem since he's tall and a really quick passer. They used to do this a lot on Curry during his MVP season. It worked sometimes because they it forced the ball out of his hands, but it resulted in open 3s for other guys. DeMarcus Cousins was a player who always got trippled team in the post, but now, it happens a lot less because of 3pt shooting threats. In general, we don't see a lot of double-teaming anymore. On top of this, it only happens when opposing teams want the ball out of the player's hands. I think NBA teams would much rather have Doncic score vs. create for teammates.

However, teams plan for players all the time. If Doncic becomes a great player, NBA teams gameplan around him. They will pick up on all the little stuff to try to expose him. If he favors attacking right? Force him to go left. If he favors long-drive dribbles? Defend him close and force him to pick up the dribble. Of course, he's not going to become great day 1. He's not going to be facing this type of pressure unless he turns into a top 20 NBA player, and by then, he'll be a lot better than he is right now lol.

I'm glad you guys pointed it out. Context is always important when looking at stats in general.

burek3 · Post #2198 » by **burek3** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:30 am

Real gave the last ball to campazzo who effed it up and pushed to thompkins to shoot the final shot. This was terrible. After Doncic nailed 3pt and then 2ft for egal? Is coach Lasso serious?

XTraderXL · Post #2199 » by **XTraderXL** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:40 pm

@mirotic12
Yeah, makes sense. As you said, it can only benefit him to face this kind of defense now. I dont really care about the EL anymore, he has proven he is one of the best players in Europe already and at this point everything is a preparation for the NBA. So the tougher defenses he faces, the better it is for him.

I saw the highlights, they didnt show TOs but I was also wondering why they gave the ball to Campazzo in the last 10s. Nobody in their right mind would do that with Luka on the floor. You give the ball to Doncic and sorround him with a PnR center and 3 shooters. Campazzo is not the guy you want to give the responisbility to organize the last posession...

Mirotic12 · Post #2200 » by **Mirotic12** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:36 pm

Campazzo probably got the ball because he has a history of making game-winning shots. Not in EuroLeague, but he's done it numerous times in Argentine League, Spanish League, and with Argentina's national team. I think he might have done it also in EuroCup.

The fact he has a history of making game-winners would be the reason. He's also a much better player than people in this forum claim. For one thing, this forum is claiming he can't play defense, when in reality, he's one of the best defenders Real Madrid has, and is much better at defense than Doncic is. That has nothing to do with getting the last offense, but the point is, he's a better player than people here claim.

Yes, Doncic should be the first choice at the end of the game, but Campazzo has a proven track record with winning games, so nothing crazy about that coach decision at all.