Doug McDermott

[MalonesElbows]

What I find truly disturbing about McDeromott is his steals numbers. Not only do they scream low athleticism, but also low effort. In his four years at Creighton with 4458 minutes played, he has racked up a whopping 34 steals.

Lets compare that to some other low athleticism, league worst defenders.

Kyle Korver played 4 years and 3540 minutes. Korver accumulated 172 steals in about 75% of Doug's court time.

Jimmer Fredette played 4 years and 2382 minutes. He accumulated 167 steals in about half of Doug's time.

The terribad Steve Novak even out performed McDermott here with 64 steals in 3401 minutes played.

Now you can argue positional defense only so much. You have to be able to put some pressure on your opponent, especially in crunch time when you are down. McDermott isn't going to just be a below average defender, he is going to be awful.

[DashGlobal]

How can doug worry about steals and D when he is dropping about 30 ppg while shooting insane percentages?

[Bubstubbler]

He reminds me of a cross between Mike Miller and a better-shooting Adam Morrison.

[LloydFree]

What I find truly disturbing about McDeromott is his steals numbers. Not only do they scream low athleticism, but also low effort. In his four years at Creighton with 4458 minutes played, he has racked up a whopping 34 steals.

Lets compare that to some other low athleticism, league worst defenders.

Kyle Korver played 4 years and 3540 minutes. Korver accumulated 172 steals in about 75% of Doug's court time.

Jimmer Fredette played 4 years and 2382 minutes. He accumulated 167 steals in about half of Doug's time.

The terribad Steve Novak even out performed McDermott here with 64 steals in 3401 minutes played.

Now you can argue positional defense only so much. You have to be able to put some pressure on your opponent, especially in crunch time when you are down. McDermott isn't going to just be a below average defender, he is going to be awful.

It's not just the steals indicator that is alarming. How about the blocks? What starting NBA frontcourt player EVER averaged 0.1 blocks per game in college? Everybody with eyes can see he won't be able to guard any Small Forwards in the NBA. But some want to believe McDermotte can play stretch 4? I would love to see the team that plays a PF who is that hopeless defensively.

[dballislife]

a lot of things and ways of scoring that hes doing right now, he wont be doing much of it in nba...every year there are players like him putting up huge huge numbers in college that do not translate to nba, and hes one of those people.....but he does have skill, and can shoot it, he can be a great role player if he keeps working hard

[Slartibartfast]

What I find truly disturbing about McDeromott is his steals numbers. Not only do they scream low athleticism, but also low effort. In his four years at Creighton with 4458 minutes played, he has racked up a whopping 34 steals.

Lets compare that to some other low athleticism, league worst defenders.

Kyle Korver played 4 years and 3540 minutes. Korver accumulated 172 steals in about 75% of Doug's court time.

Jimmer Fredette played 4 years and 2382 minutes. He accumulated 167 steals in about half of Doug's time.

The terribad Steve Novak even out performed McDermott here with 64 steals in 3401 minutes played.

Now you can argue positional defense only so much. You have to be able to put some pressure on your opponent, especially in crunch time when you are down. McDermott isn't going to just be a below average defender, he is going to be awful.

It's not just the steals indicator that is alarming. How about the blocks? What starting NBA frontcourt player EVER averaged 0.1 blocks per game in college? Everybody with eyes can see he won't be able to guard any Small Forwards in the NBA. But some want to believe McDermotte can play stretch 4? I would love to see the team that plays a PF who is that hopeless defensively.

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Anyways, you can get away with being an athletic zero on D if you put your work in and you're putting up great offensive numbers on the other end. Nobody's going to care about steals and blocks if McDermott's scoring 20ppg on 60TS%.

One-dimensionality isn't so bad if you are transcendent in your one dimension.

[LloydFree]

What I find truly disturbing about McDeromott is his steals numbers. Not only do they scream low athleticism, but also low effort. In his four years at Creighton with 4458 minutes played, he has racked up a whopping 34 steals.

Lets compare that to some other low athleticism, league worst defenders.

Kyle Korver played 4 years and 3540 minutes. Korver accumulated 172 steals in about 75% of Doug's court time.

Jimmer Fredette played 4 years and 2382 minutes. He accumulated 167 steals in about half of Doug's time.

The terribad Steve Novak even out performed McDermott here with 64 steals in 3401 minutes played.

Now you can argue positional defense only so much. You have to be able to put some pressure on your opponent, especially in crunch time when you are down. McDermott isn't going to just be a below average defender, he is going to be awful.

It's not just the steals indicator that is alarming. How about the blocks? What starting NBA frontcourt player EVER averaged 0.1 blocks per game in college? Everybody with eyes can see he won't be able to guard any Small Forwards in the NBA. But some want to believe McDermotte can play stretch 4? I would love to see the team that plays a PF who is that hopeless defensively.

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Anyways, you can get away with being an athletic zero on D if you put your work in and you're putting up great offensive numbers on the other end. Nobody's going to care about steals and blocks if McDermott's scoring 20ppg on 60TS%.

One-dimensionality isn't so bad if you are transcendent in your one dimension.

McDermott won't get on the court long enough to score 20 ppg. The best thing that could happen to McDermotte is to get drafted late in the 1st round by a good team, so he can play as a role player. If he gets drafted high, by a team that needs to play him, he'll be exposed immediately.

[Slartibartfast]

It's not just the steals indicator that is alarming. How about the blocks? What starting NBA frontcourt player EVER averaged 0.1 blocks per game in college? Everybody with eyes can see he won't be able to guard any Small Forwards in the NBA. But some want to believe McDermotte can play stretch 4? I would love to see the team that plays a PF who is that hopeless defensively.

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Anyways, you can get away with being an athletic zero on D if you put your work in and you're putting up great offensive numbers on the other end. Nobody's going to care about steals and blocks if McDermott's scoring 20ppg on 60TS%.

One-dimensionality isn't so bad if you are transcendent in your one dimension.

McDermott won't get on the court long enough to score 20 ppg. The best thing that could happen to McDermotte is to get drafted late in the 1st round by a good team, so he can play as a role player. If he gets drafted high, by a team that needs to play him, he'll be exposed immediately.

Exposed as what? A one-way player? Everybody knows that already. If he can score at anywhere near the rate he does in college, he's going to see plenty of minutes.

[Shock Defeat]

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Anyways, you can get away with being an athletic zero on D if you put your work in and you're putting up great offensive numbers on the other end. Nobody's going to care about steals and blocks if McDermott's scoring 20ppg on 60TS%.

One-dimensionality isn't so bad if you are transcendent in your one dimension.

McDermott won't get on the court long enough to score 20 ppg. The best thing that could happen to McDermotte is to get drafted late in the 1st round by a good team, so he can play as a role player. If he gets drafted high, by a team that needs to play him, he'll be exposed immediately.

Exposed as what? A one-way player? Everybody knows that already. If he can score at anywhere near the rate he does in college, he's going to see plenty of minutes.

if he gives up more points than he accounts for on offense especially compared to another player on the same team he's not going to get minutes. He would need to average at least 20 PPG to be a starter in the NBA if his defense is that bad. At best he is a sixth man, most likely he's a role player IMO

[Leslie Forman]

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Exposed as what? A one-way player? Everybody knows that already. If he can score at anywhere near the rate he does in college, he's going to see plenty of minutes.

If he is so unathletic that he has the worst steal+block rate of basically any college player ever drafted (I'm not about to check, but if it's not him, he's got to be right behind the guy who is), how is he possibly going to score at "anywhere near the rate he does in college?"

[RSCD3_]

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Exposed as what? A one-way player? Everybody knows that already. If he can score at anywhere near the rate he does in college, he's going to see plenty of minutes.

If he is so unathletic that he has the worst steal+block rate of basically any college player ever drafted (I'm not about to check, but if it's not him, he's got to be right behind the guy who is), how is he possibly going to score at "anywhere near the rate he does in college?"

Exactly.

Bad defensive players can rack up a lot of steals and blocks.

You cant be a good defensive player if you are barely getting more than .5 steals and blocks combined



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[ManualRam]

you don't need to be athletic to shoot and score.

[Notanoob]

It's true that you don't need to be athletic to shoot, but there is a point where you can only be so crafty to make up for a lack of athleticism when it comes to other means of scoring. Like when guys get old they lose a step, and their hesitation stuff doesn't get them past guys any more because they simply aren't fast enough to take advantage of guys.

And again, he'd probably set records for bad defense in the NBA if he was a starter. He simply has no chance on that end of the floor.

He should have a job in the NBA for his excellent shooting ability alone, but don't expect more than a bench contributor out of him.

[ManualRam]

It's true that you don't need to be athletic to shoot, but there is a point where you can only be so crafty to make up for a lack of athleticism when it comes to other means of scoring. Like when guys get old they lose a step, and their hesitation stuff doesn't get them past guys any more because they simply aren't fast enough to take advantage of guys.

And again, he'd probably set records for bad defense in the NBA if he was a starter. He simply has no chance on that end of the floor.

He should have a job in the NBA for his excellent shooting ability alone, but don't expect more than a bench contributor out of him.

well good thing mcdermott's not reliant on 1 on 1 ability.

how does one set records for bad defense?

and i think he does have a chance as a passable help defender because he has a few things that are required to be one: intelligence, effort, anticipation and awareness. he'd be a lost cause on that end if he was dumb and played with poor effort.

[Notanoob]

well good thing mcdermott's not reliant on 1 on 1 ability.

how does one set records for bad defense?

Drtg or RAPM or something along those lines. Advanced stats would be required to quantify how bad his defense would be in the NBA.

With regards to the 1 on 1 stuff, I'm just saying that's one less thing in his offensive arsenal. In the NBA the guy is a shooter and nothing more.

and i think he does have a chance as a passable help defender because he has a few things that are required to be one: intelligence, effort, anticipation and awareness. he'd be a lost cause on that end if he was dumb and played with poor effort.

He's got all of those things and is getting .3 combined steals and blocks per game. That's beyond terrible. If he was at all capable of playing defense he'd get more than that just by accident. If it was a matter of him lacking knowledge of how to defend properly you could hope that he'd learn, but the guy is a senior. He knows what to do. He's just physically incapable of playing good defense in the NBA.

[ManualRam]

well good thing mcdermott's not reliant on 1 on 1 ability.

how does one set records for bad defense?

Drtg or RAPM or something along those lines. Advanced stats would be required to quantify how bad his defense would be in the NBA.

With regards to the 1 on 1 stuff, I'm just saying that's one less thing in his offensive arsenal. In the NBA the guy is a shooter and nothing more.

and i think he does have a chance as a passable help defender because he has a few things that are required to be one: intelligence, effort, anticipation and awareness. he'd be a lost cause on that end if he was dumb and played with poor effort.

He's got all of those things and is getting .3 combined steals and blocks per game. That's beyond terrible. If he was at all capable of playing defense he'd get more than that just by accident. If it was a matter of him lacking knowledge of how to defend properly you could hope that he'd learn, but the guy is a senior. He knows what to do. He's just physically incapable of playing good defense in the NBA.

we'll see when he gets there. we've seen plenty of unathletic players play, survive and flourish. peja, dennis scott, detlef, voshon leonard, dell curry, chris mullin, dale ellis, wally z, post-back issues bird, etc. i could go on and on. the history of the nba is littered with players like doug who have succeeded, yet in this day and age of analytics, people are searching for predictors to determine what players can and can't make it, despite plenty of examples to the contrary. in the end, a statistical trend is just a trend.
and uh, no to dRTG.

if he's just a shooter in the nba, then he was drafted by the wrong team. he's more than just a shooter.

he doesn't go for steals. creighton doesn't go for steals. they're not the only team who plays like that defensively either. michigan for example plays a similar type of defense, except they play much more man: conservative, soft, but fundamentally sound, don't gamble, stay b/t the man and the hoop, go straight up with shot contests and don't foul. him being a bad man defender isn't for lack of effort or awareness. doug plays locked in with great effort, he communicates and he makes the rotations. that is half the battle as a team defender. it's not just about being athletic enough to get there, they have to be intelligent and aware enough to recognize that a rotation needs to be made. it takes more than athleticism to defend. some of the worst defenders (while being "productive" in terms of B/S) i've ever seen were some of the most athletic players i've ever seen as well because they lacked what mcdermott has in b/t the ears.

[Novocaine]

What I find truly disturbing about McDeromott is his steals numbers. Not only do they scream low athleticism, but also low effort. In his four years at Creighton with 4458 minutes played, he has racked up a whopping 34 steals.

Lets compare that to some other low athleticism, league worst defenders.

Kyle Korver played 4 years and 3540 minutes. Korver accumulated 172 steals in about 75% of Doug's court time.

Jimmer Fredette played 4 years and 2382 minutes. He accumulated 167 steals in about half of Doug's time.

The terribad Steve Novak even out performed McDermott here with 64 steals in 3401 minutes played.

Now you can argue positional defense only so much. You have to be able to put some pressure on your opponent, especially in crunch time when you are down. McDermott isn't going to just be a below average defender, he is going to be awful.

It's not just the steals indicator that is alarming. How about the blocks? What starting NBA frontcourt player EVER averaged 0.1 blocks per game in college? Everybody with eyes can see he won't be able to guard any Small Forwards in the NBA. But some want to believe McDermotte can play stretch 4? I would love to see the team that plays a PF who is that hopeless defensively.

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Anyways, you can get away with being an athletic zero on D if you put your work in and you're putting up great offensive numbers on the other end. Nobody's going to care about steals and blocks if McDermott's scoring 20ppg on 60TS%.

One-dimensionality isn't so bad if you are transcendent in your one dimension.

Agreed. But players scoring 20ppg on 60TS% are exceedingly rare - that's a bunch of generational offensive talents who are incredibly good at lots of stuff. Even lowering to 18ppg on 58TS% returns 11 players this season, 5 last season, 4 the season before, 12 the other. All those players are #1/#2 options, with the later ones being former #1 options converted into 2nd scorers in very good teams (Gasol, Wade, Ray Allen).

What one would be stressed to find is a perimeter player who can't create off the dribble and who isn't a speedy cutter in addition to a fundamentally sound one (Miller, Allen) posting those numbers.

Additionally, McDermott won't be much of a threat on transition (especially if he's playing at the 3), beyond the occasional trailer 3.

It's complicated to score above certain levels of volume/efficiency in the NBA while relying on off-the-ball plays, with the occasional post-up, especially for a player who isn't particularly quick or long (quite the contrary). That type of player can get highly efficient scoring at lower volumes, but it's hard to break the ceiling that's imposed by his lack of ability to create his own shots - every additional shots comes at a huge price in terms of efficiency because they quickly become inefficient, well-contested, shots . Even a guy like Reggie Miller was confronted with that.

And he'll have to score a lot of points to make up for the nuisance he'll be on the defensive end.

[altonlisterine]

Do Doug's opponents have season-best offensive outbursts? Has anyone tried to test out this hypothesis about Doug being a crappy defender?

[LloydFree]

Steals and blocks are better indicators of athleticism than defensive quality. Faried fills up the defensive stat sheet but he's a pretty crappy defender.

Exposed as what? A one-way player? Everybody knows that already. If he can score at anywhere near the rate he does in college, he's going to see plenty of minutes.

If he is so unathletic that he has the worst steal+block rate of basically any college player ever drafted (I'm not about to check, but if it's not him, he's got to be right behind the guy who is), how is he possibly going to score at "anywhere near the rate he does in college?"

Easy. He won't. This is gonna be Luke Jackson all over again.

[Jajwanda]

At some point he'll face a solid post player at the PF spot and then we'll see if he's capable. His rebounding has been excellent thus far, that's the most critical issue on the defensive end.