Moderators: Marcus, Duke4life831
Big J wrote:If I’m being honest part of what bothers me about Cade as the top pick is his demeanor. It doesn’t seem like he cares much about winning or losing. It feels like he’s just trying to make sure he looks cool out there.
nolang1 wrote:Big J wrote:If I’m being honest part of what bothers me about Cade as the top pick is his demeanor. It doesn’t seem like he cares much about winning or losing. It feels like he’s just trying to make sure he looks cool out there.
If he led Oklahoma State to its best season in however many years without caring about winning or losing, imagine how good he could be if someone lit that fire under him!
nolang1 wrote:Big J wrote:If I’m being honest part of what bothers me about Cade as the top pick is his demeanor. It doesn’t seem like he cares much about winning or losing. It feels like he’s just trying to make sure he looks cool out there.
If he led Oklahoma State to its best season in however many years without caring about winning or losing, imagine how good he could be if someone lit that fire under him!
buzzkilloton wrote:Oh yeah lots of trouble "adjusting to the higher level of competition" playing the best team in the nation with a supporting cast of all scrubs.Charm wrote:Out of all the top prospects this year, Cade obviously had the most difficult time adjusting to a higher level of competition. The game's even faster and more athletic at the NBA level...so...seems very reasonable to expect his struggles to continue. He'll trend even more in the direction of being a 3-point specialist, so his best hope for stardom is probably a Klay Thompson kind of outcome.
;ab_channel=Swish
Charm wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Oh yeah lots of trouble "adjusting to the higher level of competition" playing the best team in the nation with a supporting cast of all scrubs.Charm wrote:Out of all the top prospects this year, Cade obviously had the most difficult time adjusting to a higher level of competition. The game's even faster and more athletic at the NBA level...so...seems very reasonable to expect his struggles to continue. He'll trend even more in the direction of being a 3-point specialist, so his best hope for stardom is probably a Klay Thompson kind of outcome.
;ab_channel=Swish
Cade basically lived and died by his jumpshot because he didn’t have the quickness, physicality, or handle to get to the rim against a good defense.
And by the way, his team of “scrubs” consistently played well with Cade on the bench, so riddle me that.
buzzkilloton wrote:Since many of you are Green 1 guys. Let me show you Hollinger's take on him from behind the athletic paywall. He actually doesnt even have Green ranked on his big board until number 5. Its as if some people dont scout from youtube highlights.
5. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
A medium-risk, high-reward type pick, Green is a skinny, athletic shooting guard with blast-off quickness and elite leaping ability. You can’t teach this stuff, and it’s why he’s a certain high lottery pick. He’s the one guy who made the most “holy ****” plays in this draft, with fast-twitch hops reminiscent of Zach LaVine.
Green got off to a slow start in the G League but really picked up his play toward the end, figuring out how to take advantage of his speed and leaping ability to get to the rim. His weaknesses right now are all skill-based. He has to play off the ball because his handle isn’t advanced; he frequently lost his dribble making relatively basic moves in pick-and-roll. His shooting is decent but hardly great, and he relies too much on stepback 3s because he lacks advanced maneuvers with the rock. As a passer, he’s capable of basic reads, but that part of his game is still coming around. He’s not selfish; he just doesn’t have the whole picture yet.
He is decent defensively but not exceptional. Green should be able to dart into passing lines more often than he does, and his first slide actually looks slow — it’s surprising how often he was beaten off the dribble. However, he competed, and he has the athleticism to surprise shooters with shot challenges.
Green is only 19 and was a good-but-not-great G League player last season, so we’re talking about a developmental pick here. But his ceiling is high enough to make it worthwhile.
Charm wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Oh yeah lots of trouble "adjusting to the higher level of competition" playing the best team in the nation with a supporting cast of all scrubs.Charm wrote:Out of all the top prospects this year, Cade obviously had the most difficult time adjusting to a higher level of competition. The game's even faster and more athletic at the NBA level...so...seems very reasonable to expect his struggles to continue. He'll trend even more in the direction of being a 3-point specialist, so his best hope for stardom is probably a Klay Thompson kind of outcome.
;ab_channel=Swish
Cade basically lived and died by his jumpshot because he didn’t have the quickness, physicality, or handle to get to the rim against a good defense.
And by the way, his team of “scrubs” consistently played well with Cade on the bench, so riddle me that.
Big J wrote:nolang1 wrote:Big J wrote:If I’m being honest part of what bothers me about Cade as the top pick is his demeanor. It doesn’t seem like he cares much about winning or losing. It feels like he’s just trying to make sure he looks cool out there.
If he led Oklahoma State to its best season in however many years without caring about winning or losing, imagine how good he could be if someone lit that fire under him!
Yea, I’m sure his high school won state too. At the highest level it takes more than just talent to be great though.
buzzkilloton wrote:Since many of you are Green 1 guys. Let me show you Hollinger's take on him from behind the athletic paywall. He actually doesnt even have Green ranked on his big board until number 5. Its as if some people dont scout from youtube highlights.
5. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
A medium-risk, high-reward type pick, Green is a skinny, athletic shooting guard with blast-off quickness and elite leaping ability. You can’t teach this stuff, and it’s why he’s a certain high lottery pick. He’s the one guy who made the most “holy ****” plays in this draft, with fast-twitch hops reminiscent of Zach LaVine.
Green got off to a slow start in the G League but really picked up his play toward the end, figuring out how to take advantage of his speed and leaping ability to get to the rim. His weaknesses right now are all skill-based. He has to play off the ball because his handle isn’t advanced; he frequently lost his dribble making relatively basic moves in pick-and-roll. His shooting is decent but hardly great, and he relies too much on stepback 3s because he lacks advanced maneuvers with the rock. As a passer, he’s capable of basic reads, but that part of his game is still coming around. He’s not selfish; he just doesn’t have the whole picture yet.
He is decent defensively but not exceptional. Green should be able to dart into passing lines more often than he does, and his first slide actually looks slow — it’s surprising how often he was beaten off the dribble. However, he competed, and he has the athleticism to surprise shooters with shot challenges.
Green is only 19 and was a good-but-not-great G League player last season, so we’re talking about a developmental pick here. But his ceiling is high enough to make it worthwhile.
buzzkilloton wrote:Charm wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Oh yeah lots of trouble "adjusting to the higher level of competition" playing the best team in the nation with a supporting cast of all scrubs.
;ab_channel=Swish
Cade basically lived and died by his jumpshot because he didn’t have the quickness, physicality, or handle to get to the rim against a good defense.
And by the way, his team of “scrubs” consistently played well with Cade on the bench, so riddle me that.
Oh yeah the 4.6minutes hes not in the game. Has nothing to do with Cade being used vs the opposing teams best players since hes their best defender and opposing teams best players being out there vs Cade. Such a relevant sample size of minutes for you to hot take from.
Brofessor24 wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Since many of you are Green 1 guys. Let me show you Hollinger's take on him from behind the athletic paywall. He actually doesnt even have Green ranked on his big board until number 5. Its as if some people dont scout from youtube highlights.
5. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
A medium-risk, high-reward type pick, Green is a skinny, athletic shooting guard with blast-off quickness and elite leaping ability. You can’t teach this stuff, and it’s why he’s a certain high lottery pick. He’s the one guy who made the most “holy ****” plays in this draft, with fast-twitch hops reminiscent of Zach LaVine.
Green got off to a slow start in the G League but really picked up his play toward the end, figuring out how to take advantage of his speed and leaping ability to get to the rim. His weaknesses right now are all skill-based. He has to play off the ball because his handle isn’t advanced; he frequently lost his dribble making relatively basic moves in pick-and-roll. His shooting is decent but hardly great, and he relies too much on stepback 3s because he lacks advanced maneuvers with the rock. As a passer, he’s capable of basic reads, but that part of his game is still coming around. He’s not selfish; he just doesn’t have the whole picture yet.
He is decent defensively but not exceptional. Green should be able to dart into passing lines more often than he does, and his first slide actually looks slow — it’s surprising how often he was beaten off the dribble. However, he competed, and he has the athleticism to surprise shooters with shot challenges.
Green is only 19 and was a good-but-not-great G League player last season, so we’re talking about a developmental pick here. But his ceiling is high enough to make it worthwhile.
Green put up impressive numbers for a 18-19 year-old playing against professional players. The G-league has way way better competition than D1 basketball (don't even try to argue otherwise).
Charm wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Charm wrote:
Cade basically lived and died by his jumpshot because he didn’t have the quickness, physicality, or handle to get to the rim against a good defense.
And by the way, his team of “scrubs” consistently played well with Cade on the bench, so riddle me that.
Oh yeah the 4.6minutes hes not in the game. Has nothing to do with Cade being used vs the opposing teams best players since hes their best defender and opposing teams best players being out there vs Cade. Such a relevant sample size of minutes for you to hot take from.
They played close to 300 minutes without him...seems pretty significant.
More importantly though, what's this about Cade being their best defender, and "being used against the opposing team's best player"? Did you people even watch the games?
Big J wrote:nolang1 wrote:Big J wrote:If I’m being honest part of what bothers me about Cade as the top pick is his demeanor. It doesn’t seem like he cares much about winning or losing. It feels like he’s just trying to make sure he looks cool out there.
If he led Oklahoma State to its best season in however many years without caring about winning or losing, imagine how good he could be if someone lit that fire under him!
Yea, I’m sure his high school won state too. At the highest level it takes more than just talent to be great though.
buzzkilloton wrote:Charm wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:
Oh yeah the 4.6minutes hes not in the game. Has nothing to do with Cade being used vs the opposing teams best players since hes their best defender and opposing teams best players being out there vs Cade. Such a relevant sample size of minutes for you to hot take from.
They played close to 300 minutes without him...seems pretty significant.
More importantly though, what's this about Cade being their best defender, and "being used against the opposing team's best player"? Did you people even watch the games?
Ive been watching him all year were tanking. He guards multiple positions and is their best defender its not even close. Ive seen him guard every position 1-5 at times. He is 6’8 with a 7ft wingspan.
Brofessor24 wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Since many of you are Green 1 guys. Let me show you Hollinger's take on him from behind the athletic paywall. He actually doesnt even have Green ranked on his big board until number 5. Its as if some people dont scout from youtube highlights.
5. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
A medium-risk, high-reward type pick, Green is a skinny, athletic shooting guard with blast-off quickness and elite leaping ability. You can’t teach this stuff, and it’s why he’s a certain high lottery pick. He’s the one guy who made the most “holy ****” plays in this draft, with fast-twitch hops reminiscent of Zach LaVine.
Green got off to a slow start in the G League but really picked up his play toward the end, figuring out how to take advantage of his speed and leaping ability to get to the rim. His weaknesses right now are all skill-based. He has to play off the ball because his handle isn’t advanced; he frequently lost his dribble making relatively basic moves in pick-and-roll. His shooting is decent but hardly great, and he relies too much on stepback 3s because he lacks advanced maneuvers with the rock. As a passer, he’s capable of basic reads, but that part of his game is still coming around. He’s not selfish; he just doesn’t have the whole picture yet.
He is decent defensively but not exceptional. Green should be able to dart into passing lines more often than he does, and his first slide actually looks slow — it’s surprising how often he was beaten off the dribble. However, he competed, and he has the athleticism to surprise shooters with shot challenges.
Green is only 19 and was a good-but-not-great G League player last season, so we’re talking about a developmental pick here. But his ceiling is high enough to make it worthwhile.
Green put up impressive numbers for a 18-19 year-old playing against professional players. The G-league has way way better competition than D1 basketball (don't even try to argue otherwise).
buzzkilloton wrote:Brofessor24 wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Since many of you are Green 1 guys. Let me show you Hollinger's take on him from behind the athletic paywall. He actually doesnt even have Green ranked on his big board until number 5. Its as if some people dont scout from youtube highlights.
5. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
A medium-risk, high-reward type pick, Green is a skinny, athletic shooting guard with blast-off quickness and elite leaping ability. You can’t teach this stuff, and it’s why he’s a certain high lottery pick. He’s the one guy who made the most “holy ****” plays in this draft, with fast-twitch hops reminiscent of Zach LaVine.
Green got off to a slow start in the G League but really picked up his play toward the end, figuring out how to take advantage of his speed and leaping ability to get to the rim. His weaknesses right now are all skill-based. He has to play off the ball because his handle isn’t advanced; he frequently lost his dribble making relatively basic moves in pick-and-roll. His shooting is decent but hardly great, and he relies too much on stepback 3s because he lacks advanced maneuvers with the rock. As a passer, he’s capable of basic reads, but that part of his game is still coming around. He’s not selfish; he just doesn’t have the whole picture yet.
He is decent defensively but not exceptional. Green should be able to dart into passing lines more often than he does, and his first slide actually looks slow — it’s surprising how often he was beaten off the dribble. However, he competed, and he has the athleticism to surprise shooters with shot challenges.
Green is only 19 and was a good-but-not-great G League player last season, so we’re talking about a developmental pick here. But his ceiling is high enough to make it worthwhile.
Green put up impressive numbers for a 18-19 year-old playing against professional players. The G-league has way way better competition than D1 basketball (don't even try to argue otherwise).
Yeah their professionals but then players like sekou can tear up the gleague. Sekou doesnt look like a nba player to me.
The Moose wrote:Brofessor24 wrote:buzzkilloton wrote:Since many of you are Green 1 guys. Let me show you Hollinger's take on him from behind the athletic paywall. He actually doesnt even have Green ranked on his big board until number 5. Its as if some people dont scout from youtube highlights.
5. Jalen Green, SG, G League Ignite
A medium-risk, high-reward type pick, Green is a skinny, athletic shooting guard with blast-off quickness and elite leaping ability. You can’t teach this stuff, and it’s why he’s a certain high lottery pick. He’s the one guy who made the most “holy ****” plays in this draft, with fast-twitch hops reminiscent of Zach LaVine.
Green got off to a slow start in the G League but really picked up his play toward the end, figuring out how to take advantage of his speed and leaping ability to get to the rim. His weaknesses right now are all skill-based. He has to play off the ball because his handle isn’t advanced; he frequently lost his dribble making relatively basic moves in pick-and-roll. His shooting is decent but hardly great, and he relies too much on stepback 3s because he lacks advanced maneuvers with the rock. As a passer, he’s capable of basic reads, but that part of his game is still coming around. He’s not selfish; he just doesn’t have the whole picture yet.
He is decent defensively but not exceptional. Green should be able to dart into passing lines more often than he does, and his first slide actually looks slow — it’s surprising how often he was beaten off the dribble. However, he competed, and he has the athleticism to surprise shooters with shot challenges.
Green is only 19 and was a good-but-not-great G League player last season, so we’re talking about a developmental pick here. But his ceiling is high enough to make it worthwhile.
Green put up impressive numbers for a 18-19 year-old playing against professional players. The G-league has way way better competition than D1 basketball (don't even try to argue otherwise).
My thing with Jalen Green's g-league numbers is how do we really know how impressive they are? There is no precedent for top draft prospects playing in the g league that we can reference. The talent in the g league is of course higher than ncaa, but that doesn't really give us much context to analyse his numbers. Just because a league has more talent, does not mean its harder to accumulate numbers. Think of the Euroleague vs the NBA. Its obviously not a perfect comparison because the g league is much closer to the nba style than the euroleague but numbers aren't always representative of the talent of competition.
By most metrics I've seen, Green was a slightly above average g league player. Again, there is no precedent for us to contextualise what this means for a top draft prospect age 18/19. We have no idea how someone like Zion or even Cade would've played in the g league. They might've been worse, they might've been far better, we have no idea.
That risk is just way too high to justify taking him 1st overall. Anything after that, I would consider it.
I don't think numbers are a great justification for why some seem to view Green as 'generational' or a reason for him to go ahead of Cade. You would almost have to be relying on the eye test and potential far more than any metrics.
