Jordan Hawkins - UConn

[SeattleJazzFan]

mikal bridges was just a spot up shooter on the offensive end. yes, he was a defensive wizard, but offensively he was known as just the 3 in 3-D and was older than Hawkins coming out. and now look at him and what he's become as an offensive player. guys develop other parts of their game between their early 20s and their late 20s and the rest of their career. to say hawkins is just a shooter and pretend he'll never be more than that is ignorant. the elite shooting is a pretty good base to start from.

It’s more likely that guys who are shooters won’t develop an on the ball game if they haven’t already done so in college.

of course, but far from unheard of.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Why does it matter that Lee was an UDFA? If anything, that shows why Hawkins shouldn't go top 10. Lee, Hauser, Robinson and Strus all went undrafted. Why should Hawkins go top 10?

You said "I believe that his shooting is enough for him to squeak into the top 10". I'm simply saying that being a really good shooter is not enough to get you drafted in the top 10. It seems like you're oversimplifying the draft if you think a guy goes top 10 just based on his shooting.

It matters because you are creating a strawman of my argument. It should be understood that he isn't 2nd round undrafted because his game is more well rounded. But, for what you are drafting him for that high, his stroke is the differenting factor, as his movement puts way more pressure on the defense off ball than any of those guy's.

-Movement shooter
-age 21 on draft night
-37.6% career from 3
-6'5"

That's not a top 10 pick, imo

No one would even be talking about him as a potential lottery pick if he wasn't on a stacked Uconn team with a guy who coached and recruited his a&& off, that won the national title.

lol. he was being talked about as a mid-first, even on this board when UConn when struggling in big east play and had lost 7 out of 12 mid-season. the fact he's being discussed as late lottery/mid-first guy is because he's a legit prospect. shooting as it turns out is a very valuable skill in the league today and Hawkins is pretty damn good at it.

[clyde21]

still waiting for that list of 30 players people are taking over Hawkins

[Big J]

still waiting for that list of 30 players people are taking over Hawkins

Don't think anyone ever made that claim.

[JMAC3]

My question would be how is Hawkins going to be used differently than Max Struss or Luke Kennard?

Are we projecting him to be better defender than either of them?

[SeattleJazzFan]

My question would be how is Hawkins going to be used differently than Max Struss or Luke Kennard?

Are we projecting him to be better defender than either of them?

hard to say on either point. but strus and kennard are 10-15 ppg efficient shooting rotation guys in the league. Hawkins is projected in the 12-20 range - the reality is, if you look at the history of the draft, you get that guy in that range, your draft was a success.

[Big J]

My question would be how is Hawkins going to be used differently than Max Struss or Luke Kennard?

Are we projecting him to be better defender than either of them?

hard to say on either point. but strus and kennard are 10-15 ppg efficient shooting rotation guys in the league. Hawkins is projected in the 12-20 range - the reality is, if you look at the history of the draft, you get that guy in that range, your draft was a success.

Why waste a pick in that range when guys like Strus go undrafted?

[babyjax13]

My question would be how is Hawkins going to be used differently than Max Struss or Luke Kennard?

Are we projecting him to be better defender than either of them?

hard to say on either point. but strus and kennard are 10-15 ppg efficient shooting rotation guys in the league. Hawkins is projected in the 12-20 range - the reality is, if you look at the history of the draft, you get that guy in that range, your draft was a success.

Kennard was averaging 16ppg before injuries. TBH I think if you get Luke Kennard in the 12-20 range you aren't super excited, but neither are you dissapointed. If no major star goes after you, then you are probably very happy b/c that is a long-term roleplayer. I don't think Hawkins has the on-ball creation Kennard did early in his career, but I do like him okay. I'd take him around 18-24, but I can see an argument in the 12-18 range if you really think that shooting is going to be outlier good.

[Hal14]

It matters because you are creating a strawman of my argument. It should be understood that he isn't 2nd round undrafted because his game is more well rounded. But, for what you are drafting him for that high, his stroke is the differenting factor, as his movement puts way more pressure on the defense off ball than any of those guy's.

-Movement shooter
-age 21 on draft night
-37.6% career from 3
-6'5"

That's not a top 10 pick, imo

No one would even be talking about him as a potential lottery pick if he wasn't on a stacked Uconn team with a guy who coached and recruited his a&& off, that won the national title.

lol. he was being talked about as a mid-first, even on this board when UConn when struggling in big east play and had lost 7 out of 12 mid-season. the fact he's being discussed as late lottery/mid-first guy is because he's a legit prospect. shooting as it turns out is a very valuable skill in the league today and Hawkins is pretty damn good at it.

This mock draft was posted during UConn's skid. Hawkins went 35th..

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft-v3

This mock was also during UConn's skid. They only posted the 1st round and Hawkins isn't on there:
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2023/1/18/23523273/nba-mock-draft-2023-victor-wembanyama-scoot-henderson-toronto-raptors

[jman3134]

You do realize that these aren't experts making mock drafts? Every site just updates their thoughts until they get intel at draft time that forces the mock to change. If anything this is a great way to highlight why mock draft sites are completely useless.

[clyde21]

-Movement shooter
-age 21 on draft night
-37.6% career from 3
-6'5"

That's not a top 10 pick, imo

No one would even be talking about him as a potential lottery pick if he wasn't on a stacked Uconn team with a guy who coached and recruited his a&& off, that won the national title.

lol. he was being talked about as a mid-first, even on this board when UConn when struggling in big east play and had lost 7 out of 12 mid-season. the fact he's being discussed as late lottery/mid-first guy is because he's a legit prospect. shooting as it turns out is a very valuable skill in the league today and Hawkins is pretty damn good at it.

This mock draft was posted during UConn's skid. Hawkins went 35th..

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft-v3

This mock was also during UConn's skid. They only posted the 1st round and Hawkins isn't on there:
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2023/1/18/23523273/nba-mock-draft-2023-victor-wembanyama-scoot-henderson-toronto-raptors

and now noceilings has Hawkins 21 - so maybe noceilings is the problem, not Hawkins.

[Hal14]

lol. he was being talked about as a mid-first, even on this board when UConn when struggling in big east play and had lost 7 out of 12 mid-season. the fact he's being discussed as late lottery/mid-first guy is because he's a legit prospect. shooting as it turns out is a very valuable skill in the league today and Hawkins is pretty damn good at it.

This mock draft was posted during UConn's skid. Hawkins went 35th..

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/2023-nba-mock-draft-v3

This mock was also during UConn's skid. They only posted the 1st round and Hawkins isn't on there:
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2023/1/18/23523273/nba-mock-draft-2023-victor-wembanyama-scoot-henderson-toronto-raptors

and now noceilings has Hawkins 21 - so maybe noceilings is the problem, not Hawkins.

Ok. That's where I have him too, at the moment.

[Hal14]

You do realize that these aren't experts making mock drafts? Every site just updates their thoughts until they get intel at draft time that forces the mock to change. If anything this is a great way to highlight why mock draft sites are completely useless.

You're taking what I said out of context.

I was simply saying that Hawkins is being a little bit overrated (getting lottery buzz and even some top 10 buzz) because he was on a stacked Uconn team that made a run win the national title.

Some other guy replied to me and disagreed with me, and said that hawkins was getting mocked in the mid 1st round, even when Uconn went through their midseason skid.

That's the only reason why i replied to him, with links to 2 mocks that were posted during UConn's midseason skid where both of the mocks had Hawkins outside of the top 30 picks.

Try to keep up, read the whole conversation and don't just take 1 small part of the conversation out of context.

[EvanZ]

I hate when people shout out a "highlight" like this. AB gets hung up on that screen and the only reason he has time to recover is because Hawkins, who if he had more burst would have tried to get to the rack, pulls up for a mid-range jumper.

Fair point. If he had more burst and/or was a better driver, he could've exploded to the rack for a 1 handed jam. Obviously Hawkins is more of a jump shooter, though. It is what it is. Still a good prospect. No one is saying he's top 10, though. I think most of us have him somewhere in the 15-30 range.

If UConn goes far enough someone (like that guy who tweeted this) will end up saying he's a top 10 pick. You can count on it.

It's so predictable guys. I said this on Mar 24. I think he's at 11 now according to Givony.

[SeattleJazzFan]

My question would be how is Hawkins going to be used differently than Max Struss or Luke Kennard?

Are we projecting him to be better defender than either of them?

hard to say on either point. but strus and kennard are 10-15 ppg efficient shooting rotation guys in the league. Hawkins is projected in the 12-20 range - the reality is, if you look at the history of the draft, you get that guy in that range, your draft was a success.

Why waste a pick in that range when guys like Strus go undrafted?

so kennard in that range would be a wasted pick?

hell, why waste a lottery pick when guys like jokic go in the 2nd. so easy to find guys like Strus as UDFAs and guys like Jokic and Manu in the 2nd round. if you have a pick in the lottery, might as well trade back, take a Jokic in the 2nd round and get something for it. piece of cake.

you seem smart.

[Big J]

hard to say on either point. but strus and kennard are 10-15 ppg efficient shooting rotation guys in the league. Hawkins is projected in the 12-20 range - the reality is, if you look at the history of the draft, you get that guy in that range, your draft was a success.

Why waste a pick in that range when guys like Strus go undrafted?

so kennard in that range would be a wasted pick?

hell, why waste a lottery pick when guys like jokic go in the 2nd. so easy to find guys like Strus as UDFAs and guys like Jokic and Manu in the 2nd round. if you have a pick in the lottery, might as well trade back, take a Jokic in the 2nd round and get something for it. piece of cake.

you seem smart.

Strus isn't the only shooter that a team has picked up undrafted, but nice try with the straw man.

[JMAC3]

I have no issues with him going post lottery, his shooting is probably going to find him on the floor in the right situation. On the flip side it is easy to see him struggling to impact the game in other ways and if his shooting is just good and not great it could look like a pretty bad pick quickly.

I just was pushing back on him being some elite offensive weapon that will be a center point of offensive schemes, think he is going to be more of a stand in the corner type of guy when all said and done.

[Hal14]

Why waste a pick in that range when guys like Strus go undrafted?

so kennard in that range would be a wasted pick?

hell, why waste a lottery pick when guys like jokic go in the 2nd. so easy to find guys like Strus as UDFAs and guys like Jokic and Manu in the 2nd round. if you have a pick in the lottery, might as well trade back, take a Jokic in the 2nd round and get something for it. piece of cake.

you seem smart.

Strus isn't the only shooter that a team has picked up undrafted, but nice try with the straw man.

Yeah. Garrison matthews, sam hauser, duncan robinson, seth curry all went undrafted. Isaiah Joe was the 49th pick, Joe harris was 33rd pick. Joe wieskamp 41st pick. korver was 51st pick, Patty Mills 55th pick. Hyunjung Lee undrafted.

Kennard (12th pick), Ben Mclemore (7th pick) and Kispert (15th pick) seem to be the outliers (guys if this archetype going in the top 15)

The closest, most realistic comp is probably quentin Grimes (25th pick) or Gary Trent Jr (37th pick) maybe duncan robinson or max strus, who both went undrafted. Good role players but not guys you take in the lottery.

[clyde21]

he's an elite off-ball weapon that projects as not just as a good, but elite shooter as a spotter, off curls, pin-downs, off screens, trailing 3s, pull up 3s, who hits his FTs and who happens to be a + athlete who can defend 1s/2s at at least a respectable level. if your hc can't find him looks and doesn't draw up plays for him like we just saw a college coach do, and instead relegates him as an outlet/spotter only (like a Strus) then your hc is what failed, not Hawkins.

there isn't much to overthink here. if his shooting doesn't translate yes he won't see much burn but that's true for a lot of guys, so it's a completely irrelevant point to even make. what's Brandon Miller if his shooting doesn't translate exactly? and save us the 'At LEaST He CaN ReBoUNd' BS.

[clyde21]

also why is it shocking that Givony has him 11th?

in 2021, which was considered an extremely strong class we had:

9 Davion Mitchell
10 Ziaire Williams
11 James Bouknight
12 Josh Primo

without hindsight which of these guys is a better prospect than Hawkins exactly?

anyone who tells me that they had Bouknight as a better prospect than Hawkins just outright has no idea what they are talking about and should probably re-eval their own methods.